UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Alvecia]

What do you imagine could possibly be gained by debating Nigel Farage?

Do you think that if you drop some epic logic on him he'll be destroyed and he'll resign from politics?

Debates aren't to sway your opponent - they're to sway the audience.

Do you really think when Hilary debated Trump she was trying to convert him into being a Democrat again?

Yet, often debates do little more than promote either one or both positions. See Ken v Nye

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Maybe for a circle jerk. For anyone with a brain it is little more than a tantrum thrown by someone is apparently unwilling to act like an adult and debate.

Debates are tantrums for people who think they're too good for tantrums.

What are you doing right now?

[Kavagrad]

Debates are tantrums for people who think they're too good for tantrums.

What are you doing right now?

Would you rather they go find a milkshake?

[Ifreann]

He didn't engage with his supporters. He got in his car and left.

Got a source? because that's not what the article seems to indicate.

Could be a strange juxtaposition of phrasing, but they talk about him meeting his supporters after they talk about him getting hit with the milkshake.

https://twitter.com/seddonnews/status/1 ... 2646956032
That's the same Sean Seddon who writes for the Chronicle Live.

---

What do you imagine could possibly be gained by debating Nigel Farage?

Do you think that if you drop some epic logic on him he'll be destroyed and he'll resign from politics?

Debates aren't to sway your opponent - they're to sway the audience.

Do you really think when Hilary debated Trump she was trying to convert him into being a Democrat again?

Exactly. And the average punter isn't likely to be able to put on a better debate performance than a professional politician with years of experience.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

What are you doing right now?

Would you rather they go find a milkshake?

Yes. Might as well fetch us all one while he's at it, I'm thirsty.

[Andsed]

Got a source? because that's not what the article seems to indicate.

Could be a strange juxtaposition of phrasing, but they talk about him meeting his supporters after they talk about him getting hit with the milkshake.

https://twitter.com/seddonnews/status/1 ... 2646956032
That's the same Sean Seddon who writes for the Chronicle Live.

---

Debates aren't to sway your opponent - they're to sway the audience.

Do you really think when Hilary debated Trump she was trying to convert him into being a Democrat again?

Exactly. And the average punter isn't likely to be able to put on a better debate performance than a professional politician with years of experience.

Than fucking prepare. Because debating is more effective than throwing a milkshake which does nothing and in some cases helps makes your opponent look good.

[Galloism]

Got a source? because that's not what the article seems to indicate.

Could be a strange juxtaposition of phrasing, but they talk about him meeting his supporters after they talk about him getting hit with the milkshake.

https://twitter.com/seddonnews/status/1 ... 2646956032
That's the same Sean Seddon who writes for the Chronicle Live.

Ah, thank you.

Then yeah, that does cast him as a poor sport. He should have went on anyway and pretended the milkshake didn't bother him.

Debates aren't to sway your opponent - they're to sway the audience.

Do you really think when Hilary debated Trump she was trying to convert him into being a Democrat again?

Exactly. And the average punter isn't likely to be able to put on a better debate performance than a professional politician with years of experience.

Yes?

[Dumb Ideologies]

"Debate is useless" is a bit strong, but I can see how years of posting on NSG could lead to that sentiment.

[Ifreann]

https://twitter.com/seddonnews/status/1 ... 2646956032
That's the same Sean Seddon who writes for the Chronicle Live.

---

Exactly. And the average punter isn't likely to be able to put on a better debate performance than a professional politician with years of experience.

Than fucking prepare.

You're right, the people of Newcastle should have been spending the last twenty years preparing for the day a politician came to walk around their city.

Because debating is more effective than throwing a milkshake does nothing and in some cases helps makes your opponent look good.

That milkshake made Nigel Farage fuck off and leave. Seems pretty effective to me.

[Galloism]

"Debate is useless" is a bit strong, but I can see how years of posting on NSG could lead to that sentiment.

To be extremely contrary, I actually think debating on NS has led to a lot of good results for a lot of people. I think of how much it's changed between when I started and now, and how many opinions have been swayed, and I think NS debating is a very positive thing.

It's not moving the levers of power, but you can see over the years how peoples' views morph and change, generally for the good, based on sharp debating.

I think the average NSer could beat Nigel Farage in a debate, and that's not even a meme.

[Andsed]

Than fucking prepare.

You're right, the people of Newcastle should have been spending the last twenty years preparing for the day a politician came to walk around their city.

Because debating is more effective than throwing a milkshake does nothing and in some cases helps makes your opponent look good.

That milkshake made Nigel Farage fuck off and leave. Seems pretty effective to me.

In the short term maybe. But in the long term it does nothing.

[Ifreann]

"Debate is useless" is a bit strong, but I can see how years of posting on NSG could lead to that sentiment.

It's not exactly useless, NSG aside, but it's far from a political panacea.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Than fucking prepare.

You're right, the people of Newcastle should have been spending the last twenty years preparing for the day a politician came to walk around their city.

Because debating is more effective than throwing a milkshake does nothing and in some cases helps makes your opponent look good.

That milkshake made Nigel Farage fuck off and leave. Seems pretty effective to me.

The idea that you can throw a milkshake at someone to get them to shut up is not an optimistic one. It's got pretty disastrous implications for the discourse™.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I think it is a shame the milkshake is distracting people from the story about how the Brexit Party is being funded in a way that makes it impossible to know where the money is coming from.

[Alvecia]

You're right, the people of Newcastle should have been spending the last twenty years preparing for the day a politician came to walk around their city.

That milkshake made Nigel Farage fuck off and leave. Seems pretty effective to me.

In the short term maybe. But in the long term it does nothing.

Depends on how you mean long term. It’s been a while since Aldrin punched that flat earther, but the video still brightens my day.
I’m sure one day in the future, running across the picture of Farage covered in milkshake will do the same.

Edit: just found another angle, already it’s working wonders.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

"Debate is useless" is a bit strong, but I can see how years of posting on NSG could lead to that sentiment.

It's not exactly useless, NSG aside, but it's far from a political panacea.

Maybe not, but a society in which it is political panacea would be paradise.

[Galloism]

I think it is a shame the milkshake is distracting people from the story about how the Brexit Party is being funded in a way that makes it impossible to know where the money is coming from.

I'm throwing out a theory:

It's Russia.

There, I said it.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I think it is a shame the milkshake is distracting people from the story about how the Brexit Party is being funded in a way that makes it impossible to know where the money is coming from.

I'm throwing out a theory:

It's Russia.

There, I said it.

Also my view.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

In the short term maybe. But in the long term it does nothing.

Depends on how you mean long term. It’s been a while since Aldrin punched that flat earther, but the video still brightens my day.
I’m sure one day in the future, running across the picture of Farage covered in milkshake will do the same.

Edit: just found another angle, already it’s working wonders.

I was about to go on the "punching people is bad regardless of etc" but then I realized it was Buzz Aldrin, and I just have to say; okay this is epic.

[Alvecia]

Depends on how you mean long term. It’s been a while since Aldrin punched that flat earther, but the video still brightens my day.
I’m sure one day in the future, running across the picture of Farage covered in milkshake will do the same.

Edit: just found another angle, already it’s working wonders.

I was about to go on the "punching people is bad regardless of etc" but then I realized it was Buzz Aldrin, and I just have to say; okay this is epic.

Nah, punching people is bad, but it still cheers me up to see it.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

"Debate is useless" is a bit strong, but I can see how years of posting on NSG could lead to that sentiment.

To be extremely contrary, I actually think debating on NS has led to a lot of good results for a lot of people. I think of how much it's changed between when I started and now, and how many opinions have been swayed, and I think NS debating is a very positive thing.

It's not moving the levers of power, but you can see over the years how peoples' views morph and change, generally for the good, based on sharp debating.

I think the average NSer could beat Nigel Farage in a debate, and that's not even a meme.

Whenever I see new faces in the political debates on NSG, I silently wonder if it's a politician trying to engage their opposition in debate. The fact that they usually get their ass handed to them in short order does nothing to make me doubt this.

[Galloism]

Depends on how you mean long term. It’s been a while since Aldrin punched that flat earther, but the video still brightens my day.
I’m sure one day in the future, running across the picture of Farage covered in milkshake will do the same.

Edit: just found another angle, already it’s working wonders.

I was about to go on the "punching people is bad regardless of etc" but then I realized it was Buzz Aldrin, and I just have to say; okay this is epic.

It's worth note that, problematically, we didn't charge Aldrin with assault either, because it was felt a jury would not convict.

[Ostroeuropa]

I was about to go on the "punching people is bad regardless of etc" but then I realized it was Buzz Aldrin, and I just have to say; okay this is epic.

It's worth note that, problematically, we didn't charge Aldrin with assault either, because it was felt a jury would not convict.

I don't see Buzz Aldrin punching anyone in that video. *whistles and walks away*

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Is it assault to just drench them in milkshake, or do you have to throw the bottle too?

Anyway, here's a thought. I reckon that if, say, it's the '40s and your country is being invaded by Nazis, it's morally acceptable to resist, and morally unacceptable to sabotage the defenders. But I also reckon that if it's the '40s and your country is Nazi Germany being invaded by democrats, it's morally unacceptable to resist, and morally acceptable to sabotage the defenders. And I reckon most people would agree with me. Interesting, that.

And I'm not expressing an opinion on whether it's okay to throw eggs or milkshake or whatever. I don't really feel sure one way or the other. Just mulling over the whole "you have to condemn the action, no matter who's doing it" angle.

[Ostroeuropa]

Is it assault to just drench them in milkshake, or do you have to throw the bottle too?

Anyway, here's a thought. I reckon that if, say, it's the '40s and your country is being invaded by Nazis, it's morally acceptable to resist, and morally unacceptable to sabotage the defenders. But I also reckon that if it's the '40s and your country is Nazi Germany being invaded by democrats, it's morally unacceptable to resist, and morally acceptable to sabotage the defenders. And I reckon most people would agree with me. Interesting, that.

And I'm not expressing an opinion on whether it's okay to throw eggs or milkshake or whatever. I don't really feel sure one way or the other. Just mulling over the whole "you have to condemn the action, no matter who's doing it" angle.

It's assault to drench them in the milkshake. We have a separate crime for assault that actually causes someone an injury, and a further crime for one that actually causes permanent injury.

It's also a summary offence, meaning it doesn't require a jury because it is not a serious enough crime to warrant one.

I was about to go on the "punching people is bad regardless of etc" but then I realized it was Buzz Aldrin, and I just have to say; okay this is epic.

It's worth note that, problematically, we didn't charge Aldrin with assault either, because it was felt a jury would not convict.

This is what Summary offences are for imo.

Usually pleading guilty before it gets to the magistrate means you will avoid jail altogether and just face a fine. They tend not to bother with jail time for summary offences unless you have the gall to waste their time by pretending you didn't do it.