UK Politics Thread IX: The Masses Against the Classes

[Greater Loegria]

Now I am really offended.

I wouldn't worry too much. While farm animals seem to be a common tory kink, the usually wait until after they're dead.

last time I checked, sadly, Wales was not a bastion of Toryism. I mean the rural parts are more so than not but that's neither here nor there.

[The Blaatschapen]

I clicked on it to see. Looks like zero security. I did not sign but could have. Multiple times.
You have to check a box saying you are a UK citizen, put a name, email address and location code. That is it.

No Captcha, no id number, nothing.

Security through Obscurity can be surprisingly effective at times

What is the obscurity? It's a well known website.

It's not like a web game hacked together with perl with a flat file structure for its user management (rather than an SQL database).



(Edit: and even that is nowadays a bit better than that)

[Novus America]

So the petitions are down right now because presumably so many were signing the petition... This does not bode well for Brexit.

Not at all.
It is well known millions of people strongly oppose Brexit.
16 million voted remain.

This provides no new information whatsoever.

Yes they will have to bring it up for debate. But the debate was already going to happen.

This will not change anything.

Do you really think MPs who are staunchly against canceling Brexit will suddenly change their minds because a petition (with non existent security) that was obviously going to get a lot votes got a lot of votes?

[Novus America]

That would require a lot of extra security then

I wonder if it has any bot protection.

The system sends you an email and you need to click a link in it to verify your signature. I'm sure if there were dozens of signatures coming from one email address then the system would discard all of them except one.

A bot will often use multiple email addresses.
But bots are not the only concern.

People can easily place multiple votes too.

[Fartsniffage]

Security through Obscurity can be surprisingly effective at times

What is the obscurity? It's a well known website.

It's not like a web game hacked together with perl with a flat file structure for its user management (rather than an SQL database).



(Edit: and even that is nowadays a bit better than that)

To actually vote all I have to give the guy is my name and address. And a petition website is way less important than that.

[Novus America]

I clicked on it to see. Looks like zero security. I did not sign but could have. Multiple times.
You have to check a box saying you are a UK citizen, put a name, email address and location code. That is it.

No Captcha, no id number, nothing.

Security through Obscurity can be surprisingly effective at times

Except that apparently millions of people use the website?
The new referendum petition got 4 million right?
Even if half were fake that is a lot of people knowing about it.

Security through obscurity actually requires, umm obscurity...

[Caracasus]

So the petitions are down right now because presumably so many were signing the petition... This does not bode well for Brexit.

Not at all.
It is well known millions of people strongly oppose Brexit.
16 million voted remain.

This provides no new information whatsoever.

Yes they will have to bring it up for debate. But the debate was already going to happen.

This will not change anything.

Do you really think MPs who are staunchly against canceling Brexit will suddenly change their minds because a petition (with non existent security) that was obviously going to get a lot votes got a lot of votes?

Well I don't think the objective is to convince the MP's staunchly against canceling Brexit at any cost. That ship has sailed long ago - or at least it would have if the company responsible actually owned any ships or infrastructure.

The point is I think - and it's made quite nicely by the sheer number of signatures and the rate at which people are signing it - that quite a few people are deeply concerned that the government is simply playing silly buggers and actually should probably cancel the entire damn thing if it's that or no deal Brexit.

[Novus America]

Not at all.
It is well known millions of people strongly oppose Brexit.
16 million voted remain.

This provides no new information whatsoever.

Yes they will have to bring it up for debate. But the debate was already going to happen.

This will not change anything.

Do you really think MPs who are staunchly against canceling Brexit will suddenly change their minds because a petition (with non existent security) that was obviously going to get a lot votes got a lot of votes?

Well I don't think the objective is to convince the MP's staunchly against canceling Brexit at any cost. That ship has sailed long ago - or at least it would have if the company responsible actually owned any ships or infrastructure.

The point is I think - and it's made quite nicely by the sheer number of signatures and the rate at which people are signing it - that quite a few people are deeply concerned that the government is simply playing silly buggers and actually should probably cancel the entire damn thing if it's that or no deal Brexit.

Which is information they already all know.
Telling people something they already know does not accomplish much.

[Caracasus]

Well I don't think the objective is to convince the MP's staunchly against canceling Brexit at any cost. That ship has sailed long ago - or at least it would have if the company responsible actually owned any ships or infrastructure.

The point is I think - and it's made quite nicely by the sheer number of signatures and the rate at which people are signing it - that quite a few people are deeply concerned that the government is simply playing silly buggers and actually should probably cancel the entire damn thing if it's that or no deal Brexit.

Which is information they already all know.
Telling people something they already know does not accomplish much.

Is it? Well we really are fucked then because the government is continuing to play silly buggers.

[The New California Republic]

The system sends you an email and you need to click a link in it to verify your signature. I'm sure if there were dozens of signatures coming from one email address then the system would discard all of them except one.

A bot will often use multiple email addresses.

You need to click a link in the email to verify the signature.

[Andsed]

Which is information they already all know.
Telling people something they already know does not accomplish much.

Is it? Well we really are fucked then because the government is continuing to play silly buggers.

Honestly at this point I am hoping the EU forces the UK to make a decision if that be go with No deal Brexit or to revoke article 50. Just to end all of this bullshit.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

You can get odds of 25 to 1 on Britain leaving on the 29th of March.

[Ifreann]

So the petitions are down right now because presumably so many were signing the petition... This does not bode well for Brexit.

Not at all.
It is well known millions of people strongly oppose Brexit.
16 million voted remain.

This provides no new information whatsoever.

Yes they will have to bring it up for debate. But the debate was already going to happen.

When was the debate going to happen, exactly? When did May commit to holding a debate on revoking Article 50?

This will not change anything.

Do you really think MPs who are staunchly against canceling Brexit will suddenly change their minds because a petition (with non existent security) that was obviously going to get a lot votes got a lot of votes?

Do you really think that the ERG are the only ones who get to participate in a Parliamentary debate?

[Dumb Ideologies]

I don't trust the petition system. Got visions of hackers getting hold of the name and email of lots of people for fraud or to send them abuse for their political views.

[Thermodolia]

If parliament doesn’t vote for May’s deal next week France will reject any extension

[Novus America]

Which is information they already all know.
Telling people something they already know does not accomplish much.

Is it? Well we really are fucked then because the government is continuing to play silly buggers.

The fact that you really are fucked and that your Parliament is full of moronic clowns cannot be disputed.
But we have known this for a while.

[Novus America]

A bot will often use multiple email addresses.

You need to click a link in the email to verify the signature.

Pretty sure a bit can do that.
But it is not just bots you have to worry about.
Human spammers and trolls exist too.

[Novus America]

Is it? Well we really are fucked then because the government is continuing to play silly buggers.

Honestly at this point I am hoping the EU forces the UK to make a decision if that be go with No deal Brexit or to revoke article 50. Just to end all of this bullshit.

Agreed. Just end this. I care less about how it ends than that it end.

[Ifreann]

Honestly at this point I am hoping the EU forces the UK to make a decision if that be go with No deal Brexit or to revoke article 50. Just to end all of this bullshit.

Agreed. Just end this. I care less about how it ends than that it end.

The EU can't force the UK to do anything.

[Novus America]

Not at all.
It is well known millions of people strongly oppose Brexit.
16 million voted remain.

This provides no new information whatsoever.

Yes they will have to bring it up for debate. But the debate was already going to happen.

When was the debate going to happen, exactly? When did May commit to holding a debate on revoking Article 50?

This will not change anything.

Do you really think MPs who are staunchly against canceling Brexit will suddenly change their minds because a petition (with non existent security) that was obviously going to get a lot votes got a lot of votes?

Do you really think that the ERG are the only ones who get to participate in a Parliamentary debate?

I am not sure the exact schedule but I am sure the topic would come up.
This is not exactly a novel idea.
It is an idea they have already discussed ad nauseam.

And of course not just the ERG that favor Brexit.
Even the more moderate ones are not going to suddenly change to remainers because of an online petition.

[Alvecia]

Security through Obscurity can be surprisingly effective at times

What is the obscurity? It's a well known website.

It's not like a web game hacked together with perl with a flat file structure for its user management (rather than an SQL database).



(Edit: and even that is nowadays a bit better than that)

One that is not often frequented, nor well regarded clearly. Which reduces chances of misuse firstly by sheer statistics, and secondly by the poor effort/reward.
Perhaps my use of obscurity was stretching the definition a bit, but it somewhat fits.

[Ifreann]

When was the debate going to happen, exactly? When did May commit to holding a debate on revoking Article 50?


Do you really think that the ERG are the only ones who get to participate in a Parliamentary debate?

I am not sure the exact schedule but I am sure the topic would come up.

If you can't quote the government saying that they will debate revoking Article 50 then you cannot be sure that there would be such a debate.

This is not exactly a novel idea.
It is an idea they have already discussed ad nauseam.

When was it debated in Parliament?

And of course not just the ERG that favor Brexit.
Even the more moderate ones are not going to suddenly change to remainers because of an online petition.

Politicians famously never change their views in line with changing public opinion.

[Ifreann]

Limmy: "I have just spoken with a source who works on the technical side of the UK Petition site. They told me the #RevokeArticle50 petition is not crashing due to demand, but due to maintenance tests that have *coincidentally* been asked for by the government."

Mad bantz if true.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

May has got an extension to the 22nd May, no renegotiation of the deal.

[The Blaatschapen]

I don't trust the petition system. Got visions of hackers getting hold of the name and email of lots of people for fraud or to send them abuse for their political views.

I don't need to hack to send people abuse for their political views.

I just need a forum.