How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[New Bremerton]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

At that point, we might as well be asking what would happen if elephants pooped popcorn.

Exactly.

I thought this was about semi-plausible ways...

I thought this was a semi-serious (read: not really) hypothetical that has no bearing on the present day, like one of IM's threads. Hence my lack of effort into trying to be realistic. Like Ifreann wrote, they can win by not being Nazis. Didn't read beyond page 1 though.

A nation that has been ruled by one family for the past 2000 years could just “go communist.” what?

Internal revolutions can and do happen you know. Look what happened to the Romanovs and the impact the Bolshevik withdrawal from WWI had on Russia's erstwhile allies. And look at Italy now. It's a republic.

[Castelia]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

Sounds like someone just got the Unholy Alliance event.

[Pasong Tirad]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and the Empire of Japan were very anti-communist. This was never going to happen.

[New Bremerton]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

Sounds like someone just got the Unholy Alliance event.

Unholy Alliance? Is that from a game?

Or were you being literal? Not exactly unholy if the Axis Powers share the same ideology in my example.

[Endem]

I say spy on Manhattan project and then oh well let's say a nice mushroom in Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad and London

[Herador]

If they didn't invade Russia and Japan didn't attack Pearl Harbor, then they would have a better shot.

Japan would have forced the US to act at some point just because of their overall goals, it was just a matter of when.

As for Germany? They would have had to do so many things differently that it may as well have just been a different country and conflict altogether.

• Don't break the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
• Failing that, don't invade Russia with a plan so bad a group of toddlers could have done better
• Don't war crime your way through Eastern Europe and create a whole partisan situation that takes time and effort to deal with when there could have been a huge pool of volunteers to recruit from
• Listen to Rommel
• Listen to any of the General Staff at any point ever
• Actually don't listen to Herman Meyer
• Just don't bother with the SS
• If the SS is absolutely necessary, don't put Himmler in charge and don't let them delude themselves with ideas of Occultism and Knighthood
• Don't invent tanks in the most unnecessarily dumb way possible
• Don't get fooled into thinking an attack is coming through Scandinavia and keep it defended for so long
• Don't lose Africa and all the oil
• Don't fuck up the Battle of Britain in the dumbest way possible
• Don't let your plans to invade the US fall into US hands, like Jesus fucking christ this is basic shit come on
• Don't give Britain and it's allies four fucking years to plan and execute an invasion while doing basically nothing at all
• Don't have a leader so far up their own ass that their staff is afraid of waking them up when the country is being invaded by a massive invasion force
• Don't let idiot allies pick a fight with a country that has a higher GDP than you and all your allies combined
• If the idiots do pick a fight with said country, stay the hell out of it
• Maybe try to talk that ally into not committing a shitzillion war crimes too, while we're on the subject
• Don't go into Russia and then listen to Fred when he says "Let's split up, gang!"
• Don't get stuck in a city fight on a river when you aren't prepared for a long fight with an enemy you know won't give up
• If you have to retreat from said city fight and there is an obvious solution your man on the ground believes he can make work, don't go with the stupidly complicated plan an idiot who's failed multiple times pitches you
• I mean, just don't let Hitler lead the country, honestly
• Don't be Nazi Germany
• Don't start a war

[New Bremerton]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and the Empire of Japan were very anti-communist. This was never going to happen.

But the question is not how the regimes could have been toppled prior to going to war. The question is how they could win the war. The OP didn't say these regimes couldn't be toppled in advance, however unlikely it may have been, hence my light-hearted take on this topic. I'm just having some fun here.

[Andsed]

I say spy on Manhattan project and then oh well let's say a nice mushroom in Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad and London

That would never happen. How Hitler saw atomic science as Jewish science which is why Germany never pursued.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

The Germans and Italians could ditch Nazism and fascism for communism and join forces with Stalin. Ditto the Japanese. Europe and the Asia-Pacific (with the aid of the Chinese Communist partisans under Mao) would be completely overrun. That leaves Africa, the Middle East and the Americas, with the USA being the only powerful nation standing between them and world domination. The commies would be the new Axis of Evil.

Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and the Empire of Japan were very anti-communist. This was never going to happen.

*Nicola Bombacci laughing from beyond the grave*

[Novus America]

I say spy on Manhattan project and then oh well let's say a nice mushroom in Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad and London

You cannot uses spies to steal something that does not yet exist.
Even with spies they were not going to beat us to the bomb.
By the time the US had a working plan to steal, the US was too far ahead.

If you steal the design for something someone has already has, you are still behind them in building it.
Even by massive spying it was until 1949 that the Soviets built a working replica of the Fat Man design.

Besides you have to build all sorts of infrastructure and get the needed materials.
That takes time and money, and is especially hard if it keeps getting attacked.

Also the best nuclear scientists were largely Jews. Killing and exiling nearly all your nuclear scientists kind of makes it hard to make a nuclear bomb.

Also the Nazis kind of sucked at spying anyways.

[Castelia]

Unholy Alliance? Is that from a game?

Oh, yeah. I was referring to Hearts of Iron IV, where if you manage to somehow get Germany and the Soviet Union into an alliance together, it's called "The Unholy Alliance" by newspaper headlines.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

All the Germans had to do was to follow this very specific list by Herador

As for Germany? They would have had to do so many things differently that it may as well have just been a different country and conflict altogether.

• Don't break the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
• Failing that, don't invade Russia with a plan so bad a group of toddlers could have done better
• Don't war crime your way through Eastern Europe and create a whole partisan situation that takes time and effort to deal with when there could have been a huge pool of volunteers to recruit from
• Listen to Rommel
• Listen to any of the General Staff at any point ever
• Actually don't listen to Herman Meyer
• Just don't bother with the SS
• If the SS is absolutely necessary, don't put Himmler in charge and don't let them delude themselves with ideas of Occultism and Knighthood
• Don't invent tanks in the most unnecessarily dumb way possible
• Don't get fooled into thinking an attack is coming through Scandinavia and keep it defended for so long
• Don't lose Africa and all the oil
• Don't fuck up the Battle of Britain in the dumbest way possible
• Don't let your plans to invade the US fall into US hands, like Jesus fucking christ this is basic shit come on
• Don't give Britain and it's allies four fucking years to plan and execute an invasion while doing basically nothing at all
• Don't have a leader so far up their own ass that their staff is afraid of waking them up when the country is being invaded by a massive invasion force
• Don't let idiot allies pick a fight with a country that has a higher GDP than you and all your allies combined
• If the idiots do pick a fight with said country, stay the hell out of it
• Maybe try to talk that ally into not committing a shitzillion war crimes too, while we're on the subject
• Don't go into Russia and then listen to Fred when he says "Let's split up, gang!"
• Don't get stuck in a city fight on a river when you aren't prepared for a long fight with an enemy you know won't give up
• If you have to retreat from said city fight and there is an obvious solution your man on the ground believes he can make work, don't go with the stupidly complicated plan an idiot who's failed multiple times pitches you
• I mean, just don't let Hitler lead the country, honestly
• Don't be Nazi Germany
• Don't start a war

[/quote]

I mean all the Japanese had to do was follow their original strategy and not get too ambitious unlike Mr. Germany over there and actual Japan, they could have done just fine without the Philippines or the honor of having to bomb Pearl Harbor. It would have been all too easy to go through the floodplains of Bengal and bomb Darwin and the Aussie gang later on. Australia should have been their target because that was the center of the Allied Effort in Asia-Pacific. They also shouldn’t have gone around and massacre everyone, instead getting them to be soldiers, they could have helped without too much resentment had the Japanese been kinder.

Italy, meanwhile, they should have buily up their military force and get their economy actually up and going, they also shouldn’t have fought Ethiopia back in WWI.

[Novus America]

All the Germans had to do was to follow this very specific list by Herador

As for Germany? They would have had to do so many things differently that it may as well have just been a different country and conflict altogether.

• Don't break the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
• Failing that, don't invade Russia with a plan so bad a group of toddlers could have done better
• Don't war crime your way through Eastern Europe and create a whole partisan situation that takes time and effort to deal with when there could have been a huge pool of volunteers to recruit from
• Listen to Rommel
• Listen to any of the General Staff at any point ever
• Actually don't listen to Herman Meyer
• Just don't bother with the SS
• If the SS is absolutely necessary, don't put Himmler in charge and don't let them delude themselves with ideas of Occultism and Knighthood
• Don't invent tanks in the most unnecessarily dumb way possible
• Don't get fooled into thinking an attack is coming through Scandinavia and keep it defended for so long
• Don't lose Africa and all the oil
• Don't fuck up the Battle of Britain in the dumbest way possible
• Don't let your plans to invade the US fall into US hands, like Jesus fucking christ this is basic shit come on
• Don't give Britain and it's allies four fucking years to plan and execute an invasion while doing basically nothing at all
• Don't have a leader so far up their own ass that their staff is afraid of waking them up when the country is being invaded by a massive invasion force
• Don't let idiot allies pick a fight with a country that has a higher GDP than you and all your allies combined
• If the idiots do pick a fight with said country, stay the hell out of it
• Maybe try to talk that ally into not committing a shitzillion war crimes too, while we're on the subject
• Don't go into Russia and then listen to Fred when he says "Let's split up, gang!"
• Don't get stuck in a city fight on a river when you aren't prepared for a long fight with an enemy you know won't give up
• If you have to retreat from said city fight and there is an obvious solution your man on the ground believes he can make work, don't go with the stupidly complicated plan an idiot who's failed multiple times pitches you
• I mean, just don't let Hitler lead the country, honestly
• Don't be Nazi Germany
• Don't start a war

I mean all the Japanese had to do was follow their original strategy and not get too ambitious unlike Mr. Germany over there and actual Japan, they could have done just fine without the Philippines or the honor of having to bomb Pearl Harbor. It would have been all too easy to go through the floodplains of Bengal and bomb Darwin and the Aussie gang later on. Australia should have been their target because that was the center of the Allied Effort in Asia-Pacific. They also shouldn’t have gone around and massacre everyone, instead getting them to be soldiers, they could have helped without too much resentment had the Japanese been kinder.

Italy, meanwhile, they should have buily up their military force and get their economy actually up and going, they also shouldn’t have fought Ethiopia back in WWI.[/quote]

The problem is the Chinese war and the resulting US sanctions meant the Japanese were already screwed economically.
The only way Japan wins is by not invading China in 1937.

And it was not even clear what the exact goal was besides a vague desire to make the Chinese learn their place.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

All the Germans had to do was to follow this very specific list by Herador

I mean all the Japanese had to do was follow their original strategy and not get too ambitious unlike Mr. Germany over there and actual Japan, they could have done just fine without the Philippines or the honor of having to bomb Pearl Harbor. It would have been all too easy to go through the floodplains of Bengal and bomb Darwin and the Aussie gang later on. Australia should have been their target because that was the center of the Allied Effort in Asia-Pacific. They also shouldn’t have gone around and massacre everyone, instead getting them to be soldiers, they could have helped without too much resentment had the Japanese been kinder.

Italy, meanwhile, they should have buily up their military force and get their economy actually up and going, they also shouldn’t have fought Ethiopia back in WWI.

The problem is the Chinese war and the resulting US sanctions meant the Japanese were already screwed economically.
The only way Japan wins is by not invading China in 1937.

And it was not even clear what the exact goal was besides a vague desire to make the Chinese learn their place.

They probably only needed to take down China bit by bit. They were managing China quite well honestly. The economy part was very true though, they could have had a much more stronger navy with a better economy.

[Andsed]

The problem is the Chinese war and the resulting US sanctions meant the Japanese were already screwed economically.
The only way Japan wins is by not invading China in 1937.

And it was not even clear what the exact goal was besides a vague desire to make the Chinese learn their place.

They probably only needed to take down China bit by bit. They were managing China quite well honestly. The economy part was very true though, they could have had a much more stronger navy with a better economy.

Nah by 1941 the Chinese had forced them into a sort of stalemate and the war had turned into a slog. Along with this US sanctions had left them with little oil left meaning they could A. Pull out which they saw as an defeat B. Invade the Soviets which after Khalkhyn Gol they did not want to or C attack south east asis. They chose to do C and to do so they had to deal with US fleet at Pearl Harbor.

Watch Potential History's video about it called Pearl Harbor the best bad option because I think he explains it well.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

They could start by not wasting men and ammo at murdering civilians

But then they're not Nazis.

Sure they are.

[Andsed]

But then they're not Nazis.

Sure they are.

Not at all. One of the core beliefs of the Nazis was hatred of the Jews and their ideas that the Jews stabbed them in the back in WW1 and were likely to do so in this war. Having them begin the Holocaust as soon as possible aka during the war is simply changing who the Nazis were.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Sure they are.

Not at all. One of the core beliefs of the Nazis was hatred of the Jews and their ideas that the Jews stabbed them in the back in WW1 and were likely to do so in this war.

The Nazis had already enacted multiple policies against undesirables, it's not like they'd suddenly be saints if they weren't herding them into camps.

[Andsed]

Not at all. One of the core beliefs of the Nazis was hatred of the Jews and their ideas that the Jews stabbed them in the back in WW1 and were likely to do so in this war.

The Nazis had already enacted multiple policies against undesirables, it's not like they'd suddenly be saints if they weren't herding them into camps.

Again though Hitler believed in a master race and wanted to increase it´s population while eliminating the inferior races. Just having them not commit genocide again those they called undesirables is changing a huge part of their beliefs.

[Novus America]

The problem is the Chinese war and the resulting US sanctions meant the Japanese were already screwed economically.
The only way Japan wins is by not invading China in 1937.

And it was not even clear what the exact goal was besides a vague desire to make the Chinese learn their place.

They probably only needed to take down China bit by bit. They were managing China quite well honestly. The economy part was very true though, they could have had a much more stronger navy with a better economy.

The war in China was going nowhere. Sure they could beat China in conventional battles, but did not have the men or resources to actually occupy all of China.
They could only control a limited portion and Japanese casualties were still very high.
Japan’s population and economy was no enough.

Especially after the US sanctions.

Japan had a choice. End the war in China or fight the US and UK.
Japan was too proud to admit the China thing was a horrible mistake.

And the whole war in China was stupid anyways.
Why do it at all?
It was little more than Japanese pride run amok.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

Hitler was a jack ass who forgot that even napoleon couldn't invade Russia. The only people strong enough to take Russia was the Mongolians...but they are out of commission. (unless you count the communist Russians which technically over threw Russia )

[The Empire of Pretantia]

The Nazis had already enacted multiple policies against undesirables, it's not like they'd suddenly be saints if they weren't herding them into camps.

Again though Hitler believed in a master race and wanted to increase it´s population while eliminating the inferior races. Just having them not commit genocide again those they called undesirables is changing a huge part of their beliefs.

And their efforts at genocide could've been in theory delayed or happen in a different manner, such as mass sterilization.

Doesn't make the Nazis not the Nazis if they're a bit more patient with genocide.

[Aellex]

They probably only needed to take down China bit by bit. They were managing China quite well honestly. The economy part was very true though, they could have had a much more stronger navy with a better economy.

The war in China was going nowhere. Sure they could beat China in conventional battles, but did not have the men or resources to actually occupy all of China.
They could only control a limited portion and Japanese casualties were still very high.
Japan’s population and economy was no enough.

Especially after the US sanctions.

Japan had a choice. End the war in China or fight the US and UK.
Japan was too proud to admit the China thing was a horrible mistake.

And the whole war in China was stupid anyways.
Why do it at all?
It was little more than Japanese pride run amok.

They were salty they arrived too late at the colonisation game, that essentially is all the reasoning behind their war.
They, however, simply had no way to stop the war once it had started. Their whole economy, their whole mentality was geared for total war and you can't end a total war with anything but a crushing victory or defeat.

Had they went for the Soviets rather than the Chinese like they had initially planned, however, they'd probably have received American support ironically.

[Andsed]

Again though Hitler believed in a master race and wanted to increase it´s population while eliminating the inferior races. Just having them not commit genocide again those they called undesirables is changing a huge part of their beliefs.

And their efforts at genocide could've been in theory delayed or happen in a different manner, such as mass sterilization.

Doesn't make the Nazis not the Nazis if they're a bit more patient with genocide.

That ignores the fact that the Nazis believed the Jews stabbed them in the back during WW1 and would likely do so again during this war which is why they wanted to do this as soon possible. The Nazis were never going to wait to start murdering the Jews and even if they did they would still not win the war.

[Novus America]

The war in China was going nowhere. Sure they could beat China in conventional battles, but did not have the men or resources to actually occupy all of China.
They could only control a limited portion and Japanese casualties were still very high.
Japan’s population and economy was no enough.

Especially after the US sanctions.

Japan had a choice. End the war in China or fight the US and UK.
Japan was too proud to admit the China thing was a horrible mistake.

And the whole war in China was stupid anyways.
Why do it at all?
It was little more than Japanese pride run amok.

They were salty they arrived too late at the colonisation game, that essentially is all the reasoning behind their war.
They, however, simply had no way to stop the war once it had started. Their whole economy, their whole mentality was geared for total war and you can't end a total war with anything but a crushing victory or defeat.

Had they went for the Soviets rather than the Chinese like they had initially planned, however, they'd probably have received American support ironically.

Plus the Chinese had their own dispute with the Soviets over Mongolia.

Sure once the war started Japanese pride and arrogance meant they were not going to end it.
They refused to end it without a decisive victory, and decisive victory was not possible.

Best hope for Axis to win is some how Japan never starts the Chinese war in the first place.
Had Japan attacked Outer Manchuria and China Outer Mongolia at the same time the Nazis attacked the Soviets it might have worked.

And with no Sino Japanese war to piss off the US, (and of course no Pearl Harbor attack) and most Americans deeply suspicious at best of the Soviets, it is unlikely the US would have much sympathy for the Soviets.