How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Hitler was dumb, don’t invade the Soviets period.

That just leads to the Soviets invading Europe instead. Barbarossa was the right call, there were just a number of blunders made.

To expand on this, one of the bigger things that could have led to a turning point was Case Blue. If the Wehrmacht hadn't split its forces early and focused solely on a push to Stalingrad they very likely could have taken the city and cut the Soviets off from vital oil supplies and then destroyed Red Army units in the Caucasus at their own pace.

[Valrifell]

Honestly, the Axis could have won had they not let Hitler:

A) Command the Luftwaffe to attack cities instead of airfields and naval bases and such
B) Invade Russia for ‘mein Lebensraum’
C) Be a psychopath.

And also, for Japan, not attacking America.

I understand that C is impossible, as being a psychopath isn’t something you can just ‘not let happen’, but in that case, the solution would be letting Rommel or Göring become leader.

So, essentially, your position is "The Axis could've won WW2 had they not... been recognizably the Axis"

Lebensraum and Japanese Imperialism were cornerstones of their respective regimes, they just weren't not going to happen.

[Merther]

Hey, I was just wondering what the NS community thought about how an Axis victory in WW2
My only rule for this discussion is that I want an at least good answer, not "HiTlEr DuMb. jUSt dONt iNvaDe rUsSiA iN WiNteR."
Otherwise, post anything you want, as I am interested in your answers.

Hitler had no chance of winning WW2 as it was. The Allies were way too powerful and would've outmatched Germany in terms of production flexibility, capacity and resources. Let alone the USSR, that would've striked Romania (Axis-Aligned) in 1942 as Stalin had planned, but Hitler guessed the intentions of the Soviet Union when a Soviet official expressed the USSR's interests in the oil fields of Romania*, hence the pre-emptive operation Barbarossa that was set up to take advantage of the disorganized Soviet army to take over Russia. You all know how it ended. Finally, without a surface ships based navy, Germany wouldn't have been able to force Britain into capitulation (which already received US equipment and civilian convoys before 1941.).

Italy lacked any kind of a military industry to wage a large scale modern conflict against any European power, let alone the terrible supply lines of the Italian army that crippled its capacity to take on weaker targets like Greece.

Hungary was too busy trying to carve its own empire into other Axis members to be fully commited to the Axis' cause.

Romania was unable to secure its air space and had most of its oil fields bombed by the RAF.

Slovakia was a mere German puppet, same applies to the Vichy regime (with some degree since Pétain was often going against Hitler's will and the French people were never willing to cooperate with the Germans.)

Japan was starving for resources prior to the Sino-Japanese war, and even winning the war in China before Pearl Harbor wouldn't have changed much since for each ship produced by the Japs, at least ten ships were produced in the US. The US was simply too much of a threat and most members of the Army were against this idea of going southwards.

The fact that both Japan and Germany totally neglected the existence of each other didn't helped.

There's not much else to say. The Axis was doomed from the start.

* = See the Mannerheim - Hitler records.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Combination of luck and having less ambitious targets.

Russia is a non-starter, but the thing is that the Soviets will attack, it's just a matter of time. So attacking in 1941 is pretty rational, as Germany will be demolished if they just stand by. Germany is also running on critical oil.

So here's how the best scenario for Germans and for the Nazis will play out.

1. Lord Halifax becomes PM.
2. idk, Spain joining the axis or something. The point is that the UK ends the war and Germany consolidate its empire.
3. If the Soviets attack, then it is very likely Germany+UK will combine forces to defeat the evil Reds. US can also be involved against the Soviets. The European's shot are pretty high.
4. Japan... Nah, they can't be helped. But if Roosevelt was assasinated, then the US might not embargo Japan.

[Merther]

Honestly, the Axis could have won had they not let Hitler:

A) Command the Luftwaffe to attack cities instead of airfields and naval bases and such
B) Invade Russia for ‘mein Lebensraum’
C) Be a psychopath.

And also, for Japan, not attacking America.

I understand that C is impossible, as being a psychopath isn’t something you can just ‘not let happen’, but in that case, the solution would be letting Rommel or Göring become leader.

At that point there's so many "ifs" that it's litteraly fiction.

Also regarding the Luftwaffe, Göring should've looked for new models instead of upgrading already existing ones.

He was a good pilot.

Good soldiers never make good commanders.

[Auristania]

Copying Napoleon and not allotting enough time was a dumb move. Napoleon got beaten even when Russia’s military was outdated and weak. The Soviets grew stronger from previous years.

The winters in Russia are brutal, so invading Russia to begin with is a pretty dumb move.

Actually, Sweden Poland and Mongolia successfully invaded Russia, but don't invade Russia unless you are a winter nation too is a good standard rule.

Likewise don't Pearl Harbour. Focus all resources against Britain. Axis probably could not have conquered Britain, but they could have reduced Britain from a Great Power to a medium power. Only then conquer the WARM bits of Russia where the food is grown, reduce Russia to a medium power.

Only then adopt client kingdoms in Latin America, reduce USA to a medium power..

[Scottish Socialists]

Honestly, the Axis could have won had they not let Hitler:

A) Command the Luftwaffe to attack cities instead of airfields and naval bases and such
B) Invade Russia for ‘mein Lebensraum’
C) Be a psychopath.

And also, for Japan, not attacking America.

I understand that C is impossible, as being a psychopath isn’t something you can just ‘not let happen’, but in that case, the solution would be letting Rommel or Göring become leader.

So, essentially, your position is "The Axis could've won WW2 had they not... been recognizably the Axis"

Lebensraum and Japanese Imperialism were cornerstones of their respective regimes, they just weren't not going to happen.

Precisely.
That’s why it was impossible to win in their state.

[Jolthig]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

[Valrifell]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

Italy filled the void that Austria-Hungary left in Germany's heart.

[Jolthig]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

Yuppers.

They probably could've won. At least, by taking Moscow. Had Italy used smarter tactics, and had a better infrastructure.

[Scottish Socialists]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

Ah yes.
Italy.
The France of the Axis Powers.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but they will easily kill the Italian military.

[Jolthig]

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

Italy filled the void that Austria-Hungary left in Germany's heart.

Yup. Poor Italy.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Alternatively, Hitler can always stop hating jews, keep Einstein++ and get his own nukes.

[UIJ]

I don’t think the Axis could have won WWII regardless.
It was 3 nations against essentially the rest of the world.
Japan lacked the vital oil, resources, and manpower it needed to win in the Pacific. There’s no way it would’ve been able to even compete with America. And if they didn’t do Pearl Harbor, America's power in the pacific would be even greater. Japan would’ve had to attack America eventually, and giving America more time to prepare would be the last thing the Japanese would’ve wanted.
Not to mention Russia was literally sitting right next door. It wouldn’t have ended well if Japan fought America and Russia

Germany was running low on everything bout half way into the war, and no, Hitler was not stupid, in fact he often made the right calls where his generals did not. Even if Germany had made every right move, their lack of powerful allies and resources crippled them. Not to mention the Holocaust didn’t help them, it wasted valuable resources, manpower, and transport.

Italy was essentially useless throughout the war, lacking the industrialization, infantructure, resources, and manpower to fight alongside Germany. And not to mention, the military leadership (if I recall correctly) was quite incompetent, and had no idea how to fight a modern war.

The alliance itself was also shaky at best, Germany and Japan were more allies of circumstance, rather than anything. They hardly coordinated and communicated, with Germany having to pull almost all (if not all) the weight in Russia.

Invading Russia would’ve had to happen eventually anyways, as both Hitler and Stalin hated each other and were always going to betray each other from the start, hitler just made the first move.

Even if hitler had taken Britain out of the war, and japan hadn’t attacked America, America would have most likely joined sooner or later. And god knows a depleted Germany pull be able to stand against American industrialization and manpower. And upon seeing America join the war, and with Germany now occupied with that, Stalin would’ve probably striked then.

And I believe hitler regarded nuclear research as “Jew magic/science”. Thus why Germany essentially abandoned their nuclear program. To have hitler change his mind on that would be to change him as a person, and at that point we're taking about alternative history, fiction.
But even if he did, his V2 rockets would not have the range or likely even the ability to deliver a nuclear payload to most strategic locations, let alone across the sea. And the German airforce didn’t have a long-range heavy bomber capable of delivering such a weapon.

I am 99% sure that there was no way the axis could have won WWII, to say otherwise is quite frankly fantasy.

[Orange-Transvaal]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

*insert funny vic 2 reference here*

[Torrocca]

>tfw you're supposed to be a great power and some third rate nobody nation pushes your army back

Yuppers.

They probably could've won. At least, by taking Moscow. Had Italy used smarter tactics, and had a better infrastructure.

Taking Moscow wouldn't have defeated the USSR nor even stopped them from fighting, not by a long shot.

You have to remember that the Nazis were committing millions of atrocities wherever they were in the USSR with all the troops and resources they could possibly muster for such a task; practically nobody in the USSR was without some kind of tragedy caused by the Nazi incursion. Lebensraum was, after all, the entire purpose behind the invasion.

[Hammer Britannia]

They could start by not wasting men and ammo at murdering civilians

[Jolthig]

Italy filled the void that Austria-Hungary left in Germany's heart.

Germany loved it's brother.

Italy was Germany's adopted bother.

Then when Italy attempted to leave Germany's family, Germany like a Yandere, killed it and used it's corpse as a body pillow.

Yeppers.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yuppers.

They probably could've won. At least, by taking Moscow. Had Italy used smarter tactics, and had a better infrastructure.

Taking Moscow wouldn't have defeated the USSR nor even stopped them from fighting, not by a long shot.

You have to remember that the Nazis were committing millions of atrocities wherever they were in the USSR with all the troops and resources they could possibly muster for such a task; practically nobody in the USSR was without some kind of tragedy caused by the Nazi incursion. Lebensraum was, after all, the entire purpose behind the invasion.

It wouldn't have destroyed their will to fight but it would have crippled the USSR in every way possible. Their logistics network especially would be a mess because everything in some way linked to Moscow.

Though I still argue Case Blue was the best chance the Germans had to win, but they bungled that by diverting to the Caucasus early.

[Orange-Transvaal]

Yuppers.

They probably could've won. At least, by taking Moscow. Had Italy used smarter tactics, and had a better infrastructure.

Taking Moscow wouldn't have defeated the USSR nor even stopped them from fighting, not by a long shot.

You have to remember that the Nazis were committing millions of atrocities wherever they were in the USSR with all the troops and resources they could possibly muster for such a task; practically nobody in the USSR was without some kind of tragedy caused by the Nazi incursion. Lebensraum was, after all, the entire purpose behind the invasion.

Another reason is that the USSR politcal climate would make sure that they would fight to the bitter end like in the napoleonic wars.

[The Huskar Social Union]

By not being Nazis and ww2 not being ww2

[Scottish Socialists]

Yuppers.

They probably could've won. At least, by taking Moscow. Had Italy used smarter tactics, and had a better infrastructure.

Taking Moscow wouldn't have defeated the USSR nor even stopped them from fighting, not by a long shot.

You have to remember that the Nazis were committing millions of atrocities wherever they were in the USSR with all the troops and resources they could possibly muster for such a task; practically nobody in the USSR was without some kind of tragedy caused by the Nazi incursion. Lebensraum was, after all, the entire purpose behind the invasion.

Gah, beat me to it!

The Soviets could just move the capital behind the Urals and the Germans would starve themselves trying to get through Siberia, eventually paving the way for a soviet push west or D-Day.

Taking Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad would just be start of a prolonged failure.

[Hammer Britannia]

Actually, they could have won if they just spammed add_latest_equipment

[Far Easter Republic]

Let's not also forget Italy delayed Germany's invasion of the USSR because they couldn't beat Greece.

Ah yes.
Italy.
The France of the Axis Powers.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but they will easily kill the Italian military.

Including sticks and stones:
Greece
Partisans
Angry Albanians
North Africa
Ethiopia