How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[Confederate States of German America]

1938-1942 was the easiest point for the Axis to win, although I consider 1943 as possible too if the right choices were made in the late-1942/early 1943 phase.

[Confederate States of German America]

The war was lost in 1914 to 1918. However if you really really want you could pretend that they stood a chance in 1935 during the naval conferences and the eventual decision to focus on a surface fleet. At that point the war was certainly lost against Britain and France. Britain could never have been invaded by paratroopers as in 1939 until after the invasion of the Soviet Union Germany had only a single division of combat paratroopers. You cannot walk across water, you cannot drive tanks across water, you cannot drag artillery across water. As we all know a bombing campaign never works without nuclear weapons. If they had focused on submarines they may have starved Britain into submission in 1940 to 1941. Once the Soviet Union was invaded there was no chance Britain would ever surrender without the Soviet Union completely collapsing. An unlikely prospect the only came close because Germany had the gall to actually attack. Oh and by the way Germany attacked in August not the winter. There are a lot of dumb people who don't realize August is in the summer. Admittedly it isn't in the early summer but the attack happened to coincide perfectly with the disassembly of the stalin line of defenses yet before the molotov line had been constructed. The red army not general winter stop the wehrmacht assault in October in 70 degree weather not in a giant snow storm as popular imagination believes. A more perfect time really would not have been possible without somehow pushing the timetable earlier for not only France but Poland as well.

Suffice to say the only real win scenario would have been if after the Allies had surrendered Czechoslovakia Hitler hadn't invaded Poland at all.

Calling people dumb for talking about Winter because the attack came in August is odd....because the attack was actually in June.

[Risottia]

Germany and Italy fighting against the biggest colonial empire ever featuring also the best code crackers? Seriously? Britain while fighting alone managed to sink the Bismarck and half of the best Italian ships. The Axis stood no chance, and that even before attacking the Soviet Union and America.

The British did not crack the codes alone, nor did they fight alone. In both cases the Poles provided some serious aid in both cracking the code, and in defending British skies. As great as the British were doing in Europe, Asia was quite a different story.

The Poles were already out of the game as a nation in 1940 and 1941. Do you want to count the Free French and tye Greek and Yugo resistance also?

[Confederate States of German America]

The British did not crack the codes alone, nor did they fight alone. In both cases the Poles provided some serious aid in both cracking the code, and in defending British skies. As great as the British were doing in Europe, Asia was quite a different story.

The Poles were already out of the game as a nation in 1940 and 1941. Do you want to count the Free French and tye Greek and Yugo resistance also?

The Allies cracked the German codes as a result of a Polish team evacuated to France in 1939/1940; the survivors were then evacuated, once again, in 1942 when Vichy collapsed. If that team had not gotten out of Poland, it's questionable if and when the Allies could crack German codes.

[Confederate States of German America]

On a personal note, I'm really fucking scared by how many of you formed your opinions off of youtube videos. Read people, seriously.

[NeoOasis]

The Poles were already out of the game as a nation in 1940 and 1941. Do you want to count the Free French and tye Greek and Yugo resistance also?

The Allies cracked the German codes as a result of a Polish team evacuated to France in 1939/1940; the survivors were then evacuated, once again, in 1942 when Vichy collapsed. If that team had not gotten out of Poland, it's questionable if and when the Allies could crack German codes.

The British have admitted the Polish groundwork laid in the 30s helped advance British code breaking by years.

And more to the point, the Poles WERE not out of the game. The exiled Polish airforce was pretty important in defending the British during the Battle of Britain. You can check up on No. 303 Squadron. And the proved pretty damn imporant during the battle of Monte Casino... Nah, Poland was taken over, but they were by no means "out of the game."

(And let's be 100% fair here. The British leaned very very heavily on their colonial holdings. India, Canada, Australia all did plenty of heavy lifting on their own. To pretend Britain did everything alone is as inaccurate as it is disrespectful to other commonwealth countries.)

[Infected Mushroom]

They needed the Soviet Union on their team, having the Soviet Union as an Allied Power swung it.

If the Soviets had been allied to Germany and Japan, the British Empire and the USA combined couldn't have defeated the Axis.

Hitler needed to change his ideology to be more Slav friendly; he can still hate other minorities but he needed the Soviets on his team. Just offer the Soviets a sphere of influence in the Middle East at the expense of Great Britain.

...

Even if Pearl Harbor still happens, I think Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan could have won.

[Confederate States of German America]

They needed the Soviet Union on their team, having the Soviet Union as an Allied Power swung it.

If the Soviets had been allied to Germany and Japan, the British Empire and the USA combined couldn't have defeated the Axis.

Hitler needed to change his ideology to be more Slav friendly; he can still hate other minorities but he needed the Soviets on his team. Just offer the Soviets a sphere of influence in the Middle East at the expense of Great Britain.

...

Even if Pearl Harbor still happens, I think Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan could have won.

Even adding the USSR to the Axis, if Anglo-American willpower holds, is insufficient; they are still massively outproduced and qualitatively beaten. The avenue for victory for such an Axis is the same for the historical Axis in this case: they'd have to outlast the aforementioned willpower.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

On a personal note, I'm really fucking scared by how many of you formed your opinions off of youtube videos. Read people, seriously.

I have read extensively about the impact of Italy on the Second World War, and trust me, calling them cowards and side-switchers couldn’t be further from the truth.

[Confederate States of German America]

On a personal note, I'm really fucking scared by how many of you formed your opinions off of youtube videos. Read people, seriously.

I have read extensively about the impact of Italy on the Second World War, and trust me, calling them cowards and side-switchers couldn’t be further from the truth.

Which is exactly why I took pains to explain why they had trouble in the war and named several of the times they performed excellently despite it.

Another fun fact for ya'll: the last major successful Axis offensive in Europe was conducted in December of 1944 by troops of the RSI.

[Infected Mushroom]

They needed the Soviet Union on their team, having the Soviet Union as an Allied Power swung it.

If the Soviets had been allied to Germany and Japan, the British Empire and the USA combined couldn't have defeated the Axis.

Hitler needed to change his ideology to be more Slav friendly; he can still hate other minorities but he needed the Soviets on his team. Just offer the Soviets a sphere of influence in the Middle East at the expense of Great Britain.

...

Even if Pearl Harbor still happens, I think Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan could have won.

Even adding the USSR to the Axis, if Anglo-American willpower holds, is insufficient; they are still massively outproduced and qualitatively beaten. The avenue for victory for such an Axis is the same for the historical Axis in this case: they'd have to outlast the aforementioned willpower.

There’s no way two democratic powers could have the willpower to defeat a dictatorship as large as the Soviet Union

The Axis only need to hold on until Western protestors ensure Allied defeat

Only one side will be able to stomach hundreds of millions of losses if it comes to that

[The Huskar Social Union]

They needed the Soviet Union on their team, having the Soviet Union as an Allied Power swung it.

If the Soviets had been allied to Germany and Japan, the British Empire and the USA combined couldn't have defeated the Axis.

Hitler needed to change his ideology to be more Slav friendly; he can still hate other minorities but he needed the Soviets on his team. Just offer the Soviets a sphere of influence in the Middle East at the expense of Great Britain.

...

Even if Pearl Harbor still happens, I think Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan could have won.

So the Nazis needed to... well not be Nazis then.


Yeah IM that kind of goes against their whole fucking thing.

[Infected Mushroom]

They needed the Soviet Union on their team, having the Soviet Union as an Allied Power swung it.

If the Soviets had been allied to Germany and Japan, the British Empire and the USA combined couldn't have defeated the Axis.

Hitler needed to change his ideology to be more Slav friendly; he can still hate other minorities but he needed the Soviets on his team. Just offer the Soviets a sphere of influence in the Middle East at the expense of Great Britain.

...

Even if Pearl Harbor still happens, I think Germany, Soviet Union, Italy and Japan could have won.

So the Nazis needed to... well not be Nazis then.


Yeah IM that kind of goes against their whole fucking thing.

You just need to retool the rhetoric

Keep it simple, just unification of Europe under a new Holy Roman Empire/strong German state

Keep the anti-minority thing if it helps you gain power but there’s no need for a doctrine of lebensraum that includes the USSR’s lands

Leave Russia out of the books

It’s still internally consistent

[The Huskar Social Union]

So the Nazis needed to... well not be Nazis then.


Yeah IM that kind of goes against their whole fucking thing.

You just need to retool the rhetoric

Keep it simple, just unification of Europe under a new Holy Roman Empire/strong German state

Keep the anti-minority thing if it helps you gain power but there’s no need for a doctrine of lebensraum that includes the USSR’s lands

Leave Russia out of the books

It’s still internally consistent

The entire nazi ideology and motivation was a war of extermination and conquest in the east, against the USSR and other slavic nations for living space. So none of that was going to happen, or else they wouldnt be nazis.

It is not consistent in the slightest.

[Infected Mushroom]

Focus the hate on France and the UK, leave Russia out

Russia wasn’t even an allied power by the time WWI was lost

It makes no sense to hate them

[Infected Mushroom]

You just need to retool the rhetoric

Keep it simple, just unification of Europe under a new Holy Roman Empire/strong German state

Keep the anti-minority thing if it helps you gain power but there’s no need for a doctrine of lebensraum that includes the USSR’s lands

Leave Russia out of the books

It’s still internally consistent

The entire nazi ideology and motivation was a war of extermination and conquest in the east, against the USSR and other slavic nations for living space. So none of that was going to happen, or else they wouldnt be nazis.

It is not consistent in the slightest.

Just limit that hatred to Poland then

Write a less anti Soviet line

[The Huskar Social Union]

Focus the hate on France and the UK, leave Russia out

Russia wasn’t even an allied power by the time WWI was lost

It makes no sense to hate them

Thats not why they went to fucking war.

Italy was an Entente Power in WW1 yet it was a German Ally. So was Romania.

[Infected Mushroom]

Focus the hate on France and the UK, leave Russia out

Russia wasn’t even an allied power by the time WWI was lost

It makes no sense to hate them

Thats not why they went to fucking war.

Italy was an Entente Power in WW1 yet it was a German Ally. So was Romania.

I’m saying, keep the Nazi ideology but leave out/rework/tone down lebensraum

[The Huskar Social Union]

The entire nazi ideology and motivation was a war of extermination and conquest in the east, against the USSR and other slavic nations for living space. So none of that was going to happen, or else they wouldnt be nazis.

It is not consistent in the slightest.

Just limit that hatred to Poland then

Write a less anti Soviet line

Again that would require the Nazis to not be Nazis, destroying the Soviet Union and taking over as far as the Ural's was one of the most important Nazi objectives of the war and their preparations for the war. Not doing that, would again require the Nazis to not be Nazis.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Thats not why they went to fucking war.

Italy was an Entente Power in WW1 yet it was a German Ally. So was Romania.

I’m saying, keep the Nazi ideology but leave out/rework/tone down lebensraum

[Infected Mushroom]

Just limit that hatred to Poland then

Write a less anti Soviet line

Again that would require the Nazis to not be Nazis, destroying the Soviet Union and taking over as far as the Ural's was one of the most important Nazi objectives of the war and their preparations for the war. Not doing that, would again require the Nazis to not be Nazis.

Why couldn’t they still call themselves Nazis?

The word wasn’t coined yet

[The Huskar Social Union]

Again that would require the Nazis to not be Nazis, destroying the Soviet Union and taking over as far as the Ural's was one of the most important Nazi objectives of the war and their preparations for the war. Not doing that, would again require the Nazis to not be Nazis.

Why couldn’t they still call themselves Nazis?

The word wasn’t coined yet

Not.The.Name.

The.Ideology.

And yes, it most certainly fucking was.

[Infected Mushroom]

Why couldn’t they still call themselves Nazis?

The word wasn’t coined yet

Not.The.Name.

The.Ideology.

And yes, it most certainly fucking was.

Two options

1. Adopt nazism minus the real timeline heavy anti Soviet emphasis (still call yourself Nazis)
2. Keep the same ideology on paper but just work from a pragmatic non ideological standpoint and court the Soviets

[The Huskar Social Union]

Not.The.Name.

The.Ideology.

And yes, it most certainly fucking was.

Two options

1. Adopt nazism minus the real timeline heavy anti Soviet emphasis (still call yourself Nazis)
2. Keep the same ideology on paper but just work from a pragmatic non ideological standpoint and court the Soviets

1. Adopt Nazism except one of the most central tennents of Nazism and one of the main reasons we do anything
2. Adopt the same ideology but dont take anything that makes that ideology what it is to court our ideological rivals who we want to utterly destroy and genocide

Or, let me sum it up again:

1. Dont be Nazis
2. Dont be Nazis

[Infected Mushroom]

Two options

1. Adopt nazism minus the real timeline heavy anti Soviet emphasis (still call yourself Nazis)
2. Keep the same ideology on paper but just work from a pragmatic non ideological standpoint and court the Soviets

1. Adopt Nazism except one of the most central tennents of Nazism and one of the main reasons we do anything
2. Adopt the same ideology but dont take anything that makes that ideology what it is to court our ideological rivals who we want to utterly destroy and genocide

Or, let me sum it up again:

1. Dont be Nazis
2. Dont be Nazis

You can just change Nazi ideology

The central element of militarism etc can remain

The sphere on your conquest can be set depending on how you phrase your ideology