How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[Novus America]

Well by 41 their tanks were improving.
After Khalkin Gol they did begin modernize their armored forces.

Also German tanks in the Battle of France were inferior to British and French ones.
Air power goes a very long way.

Also the Soviets were not sending their best tanks to the Far East.
Many older Soviet tanks were crap too.

The Japanese destroyed a good number of Soviet tanks at Khalkin Gol with anti tank guns, grenades and aircraft as well. Soviet tanks did not do that well at Khalkin Gol.

So air superiority and sheer numbers should be enough. The Soviets at Khalkin Gol won, but only with numerical superiority and pretty heavy casualties. Only a small Japanese force attacked there.

And at the very least the Japanese Navy could blockade/seize or destroy Vladivostok, which would be a big blow to Soviet logistics.

Plus forcing the Soviets to fight a two front war against enemies with a larger combined population should have allowed them to exhaust Soviet manpower.

The Soviets were actually beginning to run out of people to fight by the end of 1943, fighting the Germans and their European allies alone.

Even a stalemate in the Far East could have cost the Soviets critical manpower losses.
The Soviets did not have unlimited people.

On what oil would those Japanese planes fly?

Well if there is no Japanese attack on China and latter Indo China, there is no oil embargo.
If Japan is fights the US (at all), and China, and the British Empire they obviously still lose.
No matter what.

The only way I see them being able to fight the Soviets along with the Germans is by dedicating all their resources to it.

That means avoiding or ending the war in China before the attack.
And of course no attack on the US.

The US was willing to lift the oil embargo (obviously only before Pearl Harbor) if Japan pulled back to its pre 1937 borders.

If Japan had a better Prime minister than Konoe in 1937, maybe.
That would be the only way.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

On what oil would those Japanese planes fly?

Well if there is no Japanese attack on China and latter Indo China, there is no oil embargo.
If Japan is fights the US (at all), and China, and the British Empire they obviously still lose.
No matter what.

The only way I see them being able to fight the Soviets along with the Germans is by dedicating all their resources to it.

That means avoiding or ending the war in China before the attack.
And of course no attack on the US.

The US was willing to lift the oil embargo (obviously only before Pearl Harbor) if Japan pulled back to its pre 1937 borders.

If Japan had a better Prime minister than Konoe in 1937, maybe.
That would be the only way.

So, basically, if the entire world was different, and everybody acted with the benefit of hindsight, it could have been pulled off.

What reason would the Japanese have for invading the USSR?

[Isilanka]

An Hoi4 player talking control of their high command through telepathy.
That's the only sensible reason I see.

[Novus America]

Magical oil, obviously.

Sent using alien space bats

Yeah, they need to avoid the US oil embargo too.
Which means no invasion of China in 1937 and no invasion of French Indo China either.

Again this is not likely, and not something the Japanese can fix in 1941.

It would have to require the Japanese who thought the Soviets the real threat win out in the political struggles much earlier.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

An Hoi4 player talking control of their high command through telepathy.
That's the only sensible reason I see.

The sweet, sweet sound of tens of thousands of artillery pieces firing at once...

I CAN HEAR IT!

[Washington Resistance Army]

An Hoi4 player talking control of their high command through telepathy.
That's the only sensible reason I see.

>tfw the Germans didn't just truck to Moscow

[The Underestimated Ones]

An Hoi4 player talking control of their high command through telepathy.
That's the only sensible reason I see.

The sweet, sweet sound of tens of thousands of artillery pieces firing at once...

I CAN HEAR IT!

ARTILLERY ONLY INTENSIFIES

[Isilanka]

I mean the german high command was basically playing a game of Hoi4 when they decided that logistics were for the weak.

[Novus America]

Well if there is no Japanese attack on China and latter Indo China, there is no oil embargo.
If Japan is fights the US (at all), and China, and the British Empire they obviously still lose.
No matter what.

The only way I see them being able to fight the Soviets along with the Germans is by dedicating all their resources to it.

That means avoiding or ending the war in China before the attack.
And of course no attack on the US.

The US was willing to lift the oil embargo (obviously only before Pearl Harbor) if Japan pulled back to its pre 1937 borders.

If Japan had a better Prime minister than Konoe in 1937, maybe.
That would be the only way.

So, basically, if the entire world was different, and everybody acted with the benefit of hindsight, it could have been pulled off.

What reason would the Japanese have for invading the USSR?

Pretty much. Although even at the time many Japanese thought the China war was a bad idea.
They did it anyways. Japan doing things many knew was stupid was kind of their thing.

Again I am not saying it was actually going to happen.
Obviously it did not.

I am just trying to find any way, which is the point of the thought exercise.
It is very hard to find a way in which they win.

Japan would have several reasons though for attacking the Soviets.
Namely getting outer Manchuria and the rest of Sakhalin Island.
Which had plenty of needed resources and would have made the Sea of Japan effectively a Japanese lake.

[Side 3]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. They would also need to make sure that the US and Britain couldn't bomb them. In fact, they would probably need to have constant air superiority over Britain to do so.

[The Underestimated Ones]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

As well as winter clothes

[Isilanka]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. They would also need to make sure that the US and Britain couldn't bomb them. In fact, they would probably need to have constant air superiority over Britain to do so.

So they needed the help of alien space bats on steroid. Basically.

[Side 3]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. They would also need to make sure that the US and Britain couldn't bomb them. In fact, they would probably need to have constant air superiority over Britain to do so.

So they needed the help of alien space bats on steroid. Basically.

If you want to be technical about it, yes.

[The Underestimated Ones]

So they needed the help of alien space bats on steroid. Basically.

If you want to be technical about it, yes.

Just make nevill not resign, and we'll have peace in our time

[Torrocca]

An Hoi4 player talking control of their high command through telepathy.
That's the only sensible reason I see.

>tfw the Germans didn't just truck to Moscow

>Be Fritz
>Already racked up some forty massacres of Judeo-Bolshevik villagers
>Received an iron cross for this bravery
>Get new orders from Uncle Adi himself to spearhead right into Moscow
>"It's time to kick in zhe rotten door, boys!"
>Launch the offensive
>Get fucked up by a fierce defense
>heiligescheisse.videoreel
>More offensives come along
>Eventually break through, storm the city
>Urban combat is insanely bad
>Lose at least a couple million men, somehow just barely capture the city
>"Time to drive eastward an-"
>The vehicles won't start up
>HANS WHY WON'T THE VEHICLES START UP
>tfw all the oil reserves were wasted on the offensive
>tfw you have no more planes to use because of the lack of oil
>tfw you have bunkers on treads that can't move anywhere now
>tfw the Soviets are now pulling an encirclement around Moscow with all their tanks and are fucking up your rear echelons with their still-flying planes
>tfw you don't have enough supplies to hold off against a siege because your supply lines are absurdly stretched out thanks to the entire operation
>tfw the rotten door was a trap

[Uxupox]

>tfw the Germans didn't just truck to Moscow

>Be Fritz
>Already racked up some forty massacres of Judeo-Bolshevik villagers
>Received an iron cross for this bravery
>Get new orders from Uncle Adi himself to spearhead right into Moscow
>"It's time to kick in zhe rotten door, boys!"
>Launch the offensive
>Get fucked up by a fierce defense
>heiligescheisse.videoreel
>More offensives come along
>Eventually break through, storm the city
>Urban combat is insanely bad
>Lose at least a couple million men, somehow just barely capture the city
>"Time to drive eastward an-"
>The vehicles won't start up
>HANS WHY WON'T THE VEHICLES START UP
>tfw all the oil reserves were wasted on the offensive
>tfw you have no more planes to use because of the lack of oil
>tfw you have bunkers on treads that can't move anywhere now
>tfw the Soviets are now pulling an encirclement around Moscow with all their tanks and are fucking up your rear echelons with their still-flying planes
>tfw you don't have enough supplies to hold off against a siege because your supply lines are absurdly stretched out thanks to the entire operation
>tfw the rotten door was a trap

honestly that's really true. Even if the Germans did have the means to reach Moscow it didn't mean they had capacity to purse offensive operations to capture that city.

[NeoOasis]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. They would also need to make sure that the US and Britain couldn't bomb them. In fact, they would probably need to have constant air superiority over Britain to do so.

So they needed the help of alien space bats on steroid. Basically.

Yes. Pretty much. I think that was the conclusion reached 35 pages ago. The best way to win a war from a position of weakness is to not start wars... unless you have alien space bats on steroids.

[The Feylands]

Hmmm... how about stop being nazis doing all the Nazi stuff and focus on bringing down the Soviet Union that the rest of the world also hates...?

For Japan.. how about teaming up with China and kick those cursed westerners out? Wasn’t long before that western Christians had behaved like total savages in China...

[Farnhamia]

The only way the Axis could've won WW2 is if they somehow had a significant oil stockpile that would allow them to forgo an invasion of Russia, as well as having enough resources to take on the USA and Britain. So basically, they couldn't have possibly won WW2 without going into the realm of complete fantasy.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. They would also need to make sure that the US and Britain couldn't bomb them. In fact, they would probably need to have constant air superiority over Britain to do so.

So they needed the help of alien space bats on steroid. Basically.

Alien Space Bats? An esteemed and much missed former poster.

[Sefy the Great]

we should think about this as "how could the Allies LOSE" more then "how could the Axis win". for a starter, if Winston Churchill had failed the vote, his policy(?) of no surrender would've never been implemented. what's his name - Neville Chamberlain - would be about 200% more likely to surrender then Churchill ever would.

*Quick Search*
Neville died in november after loosing office in 1940, but the point stands, without Winston, Britain would've fallen.

[Vassenor]

we should think about this as "how could the Allies LOSE" more then "how could the Axis win". for a starter, if Winston Churchill had failed the vote, his policy(?) of no surrender would've never been implemented. what's his name - Neville Chamberlain - would be about 200% more likely to surrender then Churchill ever would.

*Quick Search*
Neville died in november after loosing office in 1940, but the point stands, without Winston, Britain would've fallen.

How can you say that for sure?

[Page]

we should think about this as "how could the Allies LOSE" more then "how could the Axis win". for a starter, if Winston Churchill had failed the vote, his policy(?) of no surrender would've never been implemented. what's his name - Neville Chamberlain - would be about 200% more likely to surrender then Churchill ever would.

*Quick Search*
Neville died in november after loosing office in 1940, but the point stands, without Winston, Britain would've fallen.

Neville Chamberlain made the mistake of underestimating Hitler's ambition and thinking that Hitler would be satisfied with the Sudetenland and not expand any further, and as much as he's vilified it was a good thing for Britain that the onset of war was stalled as it gave them a chance to make crucial preparations. If there was a formal state of war between the UK and Nazi Germany, I seriously doubt Chamberlain would surrender. Nothing less than a full scale invasion of the British Isles would be necessary to take the UK out of the war, but even if the Blitz had gone better for the Germans, they still would have been running headfirst into a meat grinder if they launched Operation Sea Lion. I imagine the Germans would be fully expelled from British soil within a few months.

The Germans would have prolonged the war, but they couldn't have won it. Maybe D-Day happens a year or more later, maybe Nazi Germany doesn't fall until 1947, but it will fall sooner or later. An invasion of Britain would be every bit as terrible as Barbarossa went.

[Isilanka]

they still would have been running headfirst into a meat grinder if they launched Operation Sea Lion. I imagine the Germans would be fully expelled from British soil within a few months.

I mean you're already assuming they can actually land in Britain by somehow slaughtering the entire royal navy. Actually landing a significant number of troops in Britain is, erm, complicated for the Germans.

In fact another, equally interesting question is why didn't the Axis lose sooner. In hindsight, it's pretty easy to say that the beginning of the war was so crushingly in their favor the conquest of Poland, France and the rest of Europe was inevitable, but most of these campaigns - especially the May 1940 one - were risky gambles that could have very well gone bad for Germany. There can be alternate history possibilities where the european part of the axis loses or ends up in a stalemate by 1941-42.

[Vassenor]

we should think about this as "how could the Allies LOSE" more then "how could the Axis win". for a starter, if Winston Churchill had failed the vote, his policy(?) of no surrender would've never been implemented. what's his name - Neville Chamberlain - would be about 200% more likely to surrender then Churchill ever would.

*Quick Search*
Neville died in november after loosing office in 1940, but the point stands, without Winston, Britain would've fallen.

Neville Chamberlain made the mistake of underestimating Hitler's ambition and thinking that Hitler would be satisfied with the Sudetenland and not expand any further, and as much as he's vilified it was a good thing for Britain that the onset of war was stalled as it gave them a chance to make crucial preparations. If there was a formal state of war between the UK and Nazi Germany, I seriously doubt Chamberlain would surrender. Nothing less than a full scale invasion of the British Isles would be necessary to take the UK out of the war, but even if the Blitz had gone better for the Germans, they still would have been running headfirst into a meat grinder if they launched Operation Sea Lion. I imagine the Germans would be fully expelled from British soil within a few months.

The Germans would have prolonged the war, but they couldn't have won it. Maybe D-Day happens a year or more later, maybe Nazi Germany doesn't fall until 1947, but it will fall sooner or later. An invasion of Britain would be every bit as terrible as Barbarossa went.

Pretty sure Chamberlain was well aware that Munich was not going to work as anything more than a delaying action.

[Tanzoria]

They couldn't