How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[Andsed]

Okay but that’s just because they followed a warrior’s code of honor

They'd killed the last of the samurai a good sixty years before the war.

Actually after the Samurai charge at Shiroyama the Japanese were impressed with the Samurai bravery and devotion to a cause so they implemented parts of Bushido into the army and in everyday life.

[Ifreann]

They'd killed the last of the samurai a good sixty years before the war.

Actually after the Samurai charge at Shiroyama the Japanese were impressed with the Samurai bravery and devotion to a cause so they implemented parts of Bushido into the army and in everyday life.

Which just goes to show the levels of rationality at play here. Imitating the rebellion they'd just defeated.

[Orange-Transvaal]

Hey, I was just wondering what the NS community thought about how an Axis victory in WW2
My only rule for this discussion is that I want an at least good answer, not "HiTlEr DuMb. jUSt dONt iNvaDe rUsSiA iN WiNteR."
Otherwise, post anything you want, as I am interested in your answers.

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

The soviet invasion was going to happen any way as a part of Hitler’s ideas of lebensraum required the invasion of Slavic lands to “expand Germany”

[Sicaris]

Hey, I was just wondering what the NS community thought about how an Axis victory in WW2
My only rule for this discussion is that I want an at least good answer, not "HiTlEr DuMb. jUSt dONt iNvaDe rUsSiA iN WiNteR."
Otherwise, post anything you want, as I am interested in your answers.

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

They couldn’t have won, period.

[The New California Republic]

On several occasions, Japanese forces left their own entrenched positions to banzai charge the American positions, with predictably desastrous results.
Pretty much the only thing these charges achieved was a brief initial phase of shock from the American forces - who didn't expect their enemies to act so suicidally insane - before they were usually killed to a man.

Honestly suicide charges are the the worst thing you can do tactically.

The British "Chindits" in Burma eventually countered them with machine guns and point-blank mortar fire.

[United Universal Union]

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

They couldn’t have won, period.

They could have won!




by not being nazis though

[Orange-Transvaal]

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

They couldn’t have won, period.

At the current state they were in 1939, victory was impossible.

[Infected Mushroom]

^

So are you telling me that even I would/could have made better political decisions as head of state of Germany/Japan????

No way right?

[United Universal Union]

^

So are you telling me that even I would/could have made better political decisions as head of state of Germany/Japan????

No way right?

To make choices one must get to power though, easier said than done...

[Alvecia]

^

So are you telling me that even I would/could have made better political decisions as head of state of Germany/Japan????

No way right?

Hindsight is 20/20

Besides, given your obsession with honor, I reckon you probably would've made many of the same decisions or worse. Particularly as Japan.

[Infected Mushroom]

^

So are you telling me that even I would/could have made better political decisions as head of state of Germany/Japan????

No way right?

Hindsight is 20/20

Besides, given your obsession with honor, I reckon you probably would've made many of the same decisions or worse. Particularly as Japan.

Hmmmm

[Grenartia]

The only scenario for something approaching a victory for Germany that I can conceive of that doesn't utterly violate every historical motivation for the Nazis would be if Hitler literally didn't invade Poland, and invaded the Baltics through Königsberg. No invasion of Poland necessary for that. While the Allies would (and did) go to war to defend Poland, its entirely debatable if they'd go to war over the Baltics. From there, Germany could mass its forces in the Baltics and stockpile as much oil as it can get its hands on until it felt the time was right to invade the Soviet Union.

I can't see any chance in Hell that Britain, France, or even Poland would declare war on Germany for invading the USSR. If anything, they'd likely cheer it on, or even outright assist. Worst case scenario for Germany, with or without Allied aid, they get pushed back to Königsberg and are forced to evacuate the city, a la Dunkirk. At which point, the main portion of Germany is untouchable short of the Soviets invading Poland again (this is the biggest gamble in the entire scenario, its a coin flip either way), or attempting to launch a naval invasion from Königsberg (the latter point being utterly laughable, and Germany's U-boat forces would utterly decimate any attempt at doing so).

Best case scenario, they take everything the Soviets have west of the Urals before General Winter shows up, and manage to hold the line with minimal effort. Once they have the Soviet oil, they could basically do whatever they wanted in Eastern Europe. This likely means either backstabbing the Poles who helped them, or invading a neutral Poland. At which point, Britain and France do declare war. But without the threat of a Soviet Zerg Rush, and with virtually unlimited oil supplies, a victory in Western Europe would be that much harder. Germany almost certainly couldn't pull off a successful Sea Lion, but without the Americans joining the war, it will be an effective stalemate. And even if they do, it will still be more difficult than in our timeline.

I cannot envision a scenario where Italy is competent.

As for Japan, short of some sort of miracle where all Soviet forces east of the Urals capitulate as soon as Moscow falls, and Germany becomes extremely generous with its new found oil, I cannot envision a scenario where Pearl Harbor doesn't happen. The Pacific Theater is more or less predetermined. Maybe Japan doesn't get creamed at Midway. Maybe the US gets creamed at Midway instead. It doesn't matter. The US's raw economic and manufacturing strength ensures that sooner or later, Japan gets roflstomped.

[Free Arabian Nation]

Only if Allah himself blessed Germany and Japan to a guaranteed victory.

Which he doesn't exist to my knowledge, so basically they could not

[Prusenreich]

Oppose Hitler in 1936 restore the Kaiser extradite the Communists join the allies wait for Japan to get in a car with the soivets than invade Russia and communis France


(Yes this is from hoi4)

[Washington Resistance Army]

Hey, I was just wondering what the NS community thought about how an Axis victory in WW2
My only rule for this discussion is that I want an at least good answer, not "HiTlEr DuMb. jUSt dONt iNvaDe rUsSiA iN WiNteR."
Otherwise, post anything you want, as I am interested in your answers.

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

Invading the USSR absolutely was the right call, giving the Red Army more time to modernize and launch their own attack on Europe would have been foolhardy in the extreme. Even up until 42/43 the war in the east was very plausibly winnable for the Germans but a few big strategic mistakes sealed their fate.

[United Universal Union]

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

Invading the USSR absolutely was the right call, giving the Red Army more time to modernize and launch their own attack on Europe would have been foolhardy in the extreme. Even up until 42/43 the war in the east was very plausibly winnable for the Germans but a few big strategic mistakes sealed their fate.

No it wasn't, there was physically no way Germany could win, it was running out of oil and was fighting a zealous enemy that got stronger every day, it was a fight of attrition that Germany could not have won under any circumstance, that is, unless they stopped being Nazis.

[Andsed]

Really the only way they could’ve won was by not invading Russia and by possibly expanding the African theatre of the war.

Invading the USSR absolutely was the right call, giving the Red Army more time to modernize and launch their own attack on Europe would have been foolhardy in the extreme. Even up until 42/43 the war in the east was very plausibly winnable for the Germans but a few big strategic mistakes sealed their fate.

TBH Germany chances of beating the USSR were always slim. First off the Russians would never surrender and they would fight to the bitter end so Germany would need to utterly destroy the Soviets which would be costly and very difficult. And even if he somehow got the Soviets to capitulate they would still have to have millions of men there to keep their conquered land under control.

[Grenartia]

Invading the USSR absolutely was the right call, giving the Red Army more time to modernize and launch their own attack on Europe would have been foolhardy in the extreme. Even up until 42/43 the war in the east was very plausibly winnable for the Germans but a few big strategic mistakes sealed their fate.

No it wasn't, there was physically no way Germany could win, it was running out of oil and was fighting a zealous enemy that got stronger every day, it was a fight of attrition that Germany could not have won under any circumstance, that is, unless they stopped being Nazis.

I literally just outlined a scenario where they could defeat the USSR without stopping being Nazis.

[United Universal Union]

No it wasn't, there was physically no way Germany could win, it was running out of oil and was fighting a zealous enemy that got stronger every day, it was a fight of attrition that Germany could not have won under any circumstance, that is, unless they stopped being Nazis.

I literally just outlined a scenario where they could defeat the USSR without stopping being Nazis.

Well, it's flawed.
How are they going to supply an entire army invading through the Baltics? Via the sea? Really? Germany?
You realize how hard it is to keep such an army supplied, aye? They wouldn't have anything to eat since the Soviet Bread basket was the Ukraine, good luck reaching it, they would run out of oil and die.
Sorry, but that scenario is impossible, and it still makes them stop being Nazis, because Nazis wanted Danzig back, they cannot avoid invading Poland unless they stop being Nazis.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Invading the USSR absolutely was the right call, giving the Red Army more time to modernize and launch their own attack on Europe would have been foolhardy in the extreme. Even up until 42/43 the war in the east was very plausibly winnable for the Germans but a few big strategic mistakes sealed their fate.

No it wasn't, there was physically no way Germany could win, it was running out of oil and was fighting a zealous enemy that got stronger every day, it was a fight of attrition that Germany could not have won under any circumstance, that is, unless they stopped being Nazis.

It being a war of attrition really isn't a strong point against Germany. Even up until Berlin itself the Wehrmacht and SS were still killing the Soviets at factors of 2-1 more often than not. Oil could have been an easy enough to rectify problem if Case Blue hadn't been bungled entirely.

Germany's biggest problem is the US coming along with Little Boy and Fat Man because there's no defense they have against that.

[Germanyt]

By not gassing people and focusing those resources on the war effort. Or just by not invading neighbors.

[United Universal Union]

No it wasn't, there was physically no way Germany could win, it was running out of oil and was fighting a zealous enemy that got stronger every day, it was a fight of attrition that Germany could not have won under any circumstance, that is, unless they stopped being Nazis.

It being a war of attrition really isn't a strong point against Germany. Even up until Berlin itself the Wehrmacht and SS were still killing the Soviets at factors of 2-1 more often than not. Oil could have been an easy enough to rectify problem if Case Blue hadn't been bungled entirely.

Germany's biggest problem is the US coming along with Little Boy and Fat Man because there's no defense they have against that.

Again, case blau might of taken away oil from the Soviets, but the soviets would burn it to the ground, the Nazis were in no shape to re-establish said oil fields, if they did, well, the soviets would ask the allies to bomb it to the ground, since the allies were already planning on doing so.
The germans would strech themselves too thin, there is no way Nazi Germany can win against the USSR, it's not a fair fight.

[The New California Republic]

By not gassing people and focusing those resources on the war effort. Or just by not invading neighbors.

They can win a war by not invading other countries?

[Inmeria]

Not certain I buy the whole "Germany was destined to lose the moment they attacked the USSR" idea. Seems like an exaggeration of hindsight to me. Hitler routinely refused his officer's suggestions to stop or fallback to more easily defendable positions where they could heavily entrench themselves. This was both during the initial, successful advance and during the successful Soviet counter attack.

I think a determined Southern thrust from the onset to capture the Ukrainian breadbasket and Caucasus oil, followed by heavy entrenchment in preparation for the eventual Soviet counterattack has some chance to work. Not an overwhelming chance, mind you, but a decent chance. The Germans would be fighting defensively, on a smaller front line, and they'd be able to use captured natural resources to maintain their equipment advantage.

The Soviets would devote most everything they've got to their counterattack, and as long as the Germans could ride it out they'd be in good position to march all the way to Moscow. This wouldn't finish the Soviets off, certainly, but they wouldn't have the logistics to mount any major counter-offensives from that point so the Germans could focus on consolidating their gains and rebuilding their air force for the second battle of Britain. (They might even be able to convince some Russian officers that they'd get more favorable peace terms without Stalin, and could do a repeat of 1917.)

Edit: A more successful Battle of Britain would be required, with British airfields being destroyed to stop German industry from being exposed to Allied bombing. I think this is easily feasible, with how close the air battle was in real life and how much German air power could be diverted from poorly chosen civilian targets.

[Grenartia]

I literally just outlined a scenario where they could defeat the USSR without stopping being Nazis.

Well, it's flawed.
How are they going to supply an entire army invading through the Baltics? Via the sea? Really? Germany?

Contrary to popular opinion, they did have surface ships, and sea transport of passengers and goods to and from mainland Germany and East Prussia was extremely common in the interwar period. The only thing that really would stop that is hostile forces in the water, and without pissing off Poland, there's not really anyone the Nazis had their eye on who could challenge German naval supremacy in the Baltic Sea.

Besides, Germany could likely diplomatically wrangle the right for land transport of military forces and equipment through the Polish Corridor if it absolutely had to, as long as it didn't try invading Poland outright.

You realize how hard it is to keep such an army supplied, aye? They wouldn't have anything to eat since the Soviet Bread basket was the Ukraine, good luck reaching it, they would run out of oil and die.

Actually, throughout the war, the Germans were incredibly well-fed almost until the end. Besides, it can't be much harder to reach Ukraine through the Baltics than it can through heavily resistive Poland.

Sorry, but that scenario is impossible, and it still makes them stop being Nazis, because Nazis wanted Danzig back, they cannot avoid invading Poland unless they stop being Nazis.

If you paid attention to my setup, the Nazis get Danzig back, after defeating the Soviets.