So am I, as it turns out.
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by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:39 pm
by Las Palmeras » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:39 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Quality wise the IJA could have given the Soviets a run for their money at least, even in 45 when the reds invaded Manchuria the Japanese and friends did an admirably good job of making the Soviets bleed for it.
The problem with the Japanese attacking the USSR from the east is that there's literally nothing valuable (except Vladivostok) for literally hundreds of miles.
by North Arkana » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:40 pm
The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile wrote:Option Two: Even if Britain could not have been brought to terms, Operation Sealion had a much higher chance of success than many give it credit for, especially if Germany had won the Battle of Britain by focusing on industrial targets, radar installations, and airfields instead of on British cities. In this case, the Royal Air Force, which was stretched almost to breaking point in real life, would likely have shattered, leaving the Royal Navy unable to operate due to German air superiority. At this point Britain very likely would have capitulated, but, for sake of argument, let us say that they don't, and Operation Sealion continues as planned (Hitler seriously considered launching it, and likely would have had the Battle of Britain been won). With their air superiority, Germany would be free to use paratroopers (remember that the Battle of Crete had not happened yet, and Hitler had not yet developed a disdain for airlanding operations) to secure important targets in Britain before using an unrivaled Kriegsmarine to land German troops on the island. Once German boots hit the ground, then the fight is over; Britain had no hope of defeating the Germans with their meager army and shattered air force. Afterwards, Hitler most likely would have set up a puppet regime led by Edward VIII and possibly Oswald Mosley, allowing Britain to join the Axis, at least ceremonially, along with Spain and France, which would have huge impact for the war in the East, virtually assuring victory, as the United States would most likely not intervene without Britain to use as a launch pad.
by Bezkoshtovnya » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:40 pm
Valentine Z wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Valentine Z wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?
by North Arkana » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:43 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Valentine Z wrote:
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?
Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.
by Wysten » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:43 pm
Valentine Z wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?
by Rezmaeristan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:44 pm
Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Rezmaeristan wrote:
The Afrika Korps was established in March 1941, and construction on Belzec, the first extermination camp, began in October of that same year. It seems reasonable that the Final Solution could be cancelled in that timespan, especially since Sea Lion had already been cancelled; OKW would be looking for other ways to beat Britain, and this seems pretty feasible.
However the first killings of Jews by the Einsatzgruppen began in June 1941, which marks the shift from removal of Jews from Germany to outright extermination within Germany and beyond. While it isnt necessarily impossible that the Nazis would suddenly scale back their policy on Jews it seems unlikely. Using an armed unit of Jews and supporting a Jewish independent state I think is still far less probable than using Arabs and other Muslim groups since hitler had a degree of respect for them and they would be a far more influential force in the British Middle east and Africa.
by The South Falls » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:45 pm
Thanatttynia wrote:The South Falls wrote:Britain would never accept the peace, that's what the obstacle is here. America's lend lease and Russia's production capacity could have kept it alive for the allies
Britain not accepting peace is dependent on quite a few things, as I've just listed. Most of them are outside of the Nazi's direct control, but all of them are more than possible, and there were ways the Nazis could make certain of them more likely. If this happens in 1940, neither America nor the Soviet Union are at war with Nazi Germany and they may well never be.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:45 pm
North Arkana wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.
The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.
by Wysten » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:46 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Valentine Z wrote:
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?
Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:48 pm
Torrocca wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The Soviets had inferior technology and equipment, though. Their air force was a just, their armored divisions at the time were "meh" at best, and their infantry were mostly motley conscripts in rags armed with 19th century rifles. What kept winning them the day was the sheer number of them and their burning desire for revenge. Remove the latter and all you'll have is massacres and mass desertions.
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
by Torrocca » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:49 pm
Valentine Z wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.
Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?
by North Arkana » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:50 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:North Arkana wrote:The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.
True, but the average German infantryman would've been better equipped and trained than the average Soviet infantryman. Plus, the Soviet Air Force was dogshit compared to the Luftwaffe. Tanks were really the only place the Soviets had the Germans beat during the war.
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
The King Tiger laughs at your claims
fuck it broke down again
by Wysten » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:50 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:North Arkana wrote:The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.
True, but the average German infantryman would've been better equipped and trained than the average Soviet infantryman. Plus, the Soviet Air Force was dogshit compared to the Luftwaffe. Tanks were really the only place the Soviets had the Germans beat during the war.
by The South Falls » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:51 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
The King Tiger laughs at your claims
fuck it broke down again
by Torrocca » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:51 pm
Wysten wrote:Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.
"Even the Nazis on their deathhbed had better shit." Except for the fact that almost all German AFVs post Pz IV were suffering from shitty transmissions and crew ergonomics.
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:51 pm
by North Arkana » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:51 pm
by Wysten » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:52 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Torrocca wrote:
Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.
The King Tiger laughs at your claims
fuck it broke down again
by Torrocca » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:53 pm
by Orange-Transvaal » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:53 pm
by Western Vale Confederacy » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:54 pm
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:55 pm
by Torrocca » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:55 pm
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