How could the Axis Powers win WW2?

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

"Hold my beer..."

"Halte mein Bier ..." Except Hitler was a teetotaler, I think.

So am I, as it turns out.

"Hold my (Root) Beer"?

[Las Palmeras]

Quality wise the IJA could have given the Soviets a run for their money at least, even in 45 when the reds invaded Manchuria the Japanese and friends did an admirably good job of making the Soviets bleed for it.

The problem with the Japanese attacking the USSR from the east is that there's literally nothing valuable (except Vladivostok) for literally hundreds of miles.

Hmm...good points. I actually overlooked the actual quality of the Kwantung Army in the 30s and even the early 40s, when troops' individual quality and it's hardware provided a grave threat to the USSR. And even the shadow of their former self did the best they could against an overwhelming and technologically superior enemy in '45.

But those were mostly defensive, and the Japanese were really good at aggressive defenses. I'm really not sure if IJA doctrine would've been up for completely knocking out an industrialized enemy on such a vast front. Especially regarding their horrible disregard of logistics. But as you said, Vladivostok is really the only major prize there.

[North Arkana]

Option Two: Even if Britain could not have been brought to terms, Operation Sealion had a much higher chance of success than many give it credit for, especially if Germany had won the Battle of Britain by focusing on industrial targets, radar installations, and airfields instead of on British cities. In this case, the Royal Air Force, which was stretched almost to breaking point in real life, would likely have shattered, leaving the Royal Navy unable to operate due to German air superiority. At this point Britain very likely would have capitulated, but, for sake of argument, let us say that they don't, and Operation Sealion continues as planned (Hitler seriously considered launching it, and likely would have had the Battle of Britain been won). With their air superiority, Germany would be free to use paratroopers (remember that the Battle of Crete had not happened yet, and Hitler had not yet developed a disdain for airlanding operations) to secure important targets in Britain before using an unrivaled Kriegsmarine to land German troops on the island. Once German boots hit the ground, then the fight is over; Britain had no hope of defeating the Germans with their meager army and shattered air force. Afterwards, Hitler most likely would have set up a puppet regime led by Edward VIII and possibly Oswald Mosley, allowing Britain to join the Axis, at least ceremonially, along with Spain and France, which would have huge impact for the war in the East, virtually assuring victory, as the United States would most likely not intervene without Britain to use as a launch pad.

First off, the Luftwaffe was losing the Battle of Britain, badly, before the switch to city bombing.
Second, do you really expect the Kriegsmarine to hold back, *takes deep breath* HMS King George V, HMS Malaya, HMS Nelson, HMS Queen Elizabeth, HMS Ramillies, HMs Resolution, HMS Royal Sovereign, HMS Revenge, HMS Rodney, HMS Royal Oak, HMS Valiant, and HMS Warspite, with just the Terrible Twins (who are being repaired by the way due to damage sustained off Norway, derp)? Not even counting the swarm of destroyers and cruisers who would be mustered to oppose the landings? Not even counting the RAF who wouldn't be out of the game by a long shot. Do you know what RAF "defeat" in the Battle of Britain looks like? It looks like the RAF moving to bases out of range of German attack, where they rearm and resupply in preparation to attack the potential German invasion. They do not "shatter".

Germany loses Sea Lion. No ifs, ands, or buts.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

I would say the Wehrmacht was probably slightly more logistically organized but if so not by much. And in fact most of the German equipment that everyone knows about or points to as superior were actually developed in response to combat with the Soviets. I think someone may have mentioned that already though.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?

Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.

[North Arkana]

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?

Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.

The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.

[Wysten]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?

The Soviets had KV-1s, 2s, and T-34-75s though these were usually ill maintained, led, or both. Also German logistics were famously terrible with them. The biggest case is that they couldn't push far into the USSR without over extending themselves due to the fact that the German type of railway was completely different from the Russian one. Not to mention the hodge podge of different types of tanks, guns, and trucks and things get bogged down very fast.

[Rezmaeristan]

The Afrika Korps was established in March 1941, and construction on Belzec, the first extermination camp, began in October of that same year. It seems reasonable that the Final Solution could be cancelled in that timespan, especially since Sea Lion had already been cancelled; OKW would be looking for other ways to beat Britain, and this seems pretty feasible.

However the first killings of Jews by the Einsatzgruppen began in June 1941, which marks the shift from removal of Jews from Germany to outright extermination within Germany and beyond. While it isnt necessarily impossible that the Nazis would suddenly scale back their policy on Jews it seems unlikely. Using an armed unit of Jews and supporting a Jewish independent state I think is still far less probable than using Arabs and other Muslim groups since hitler had a degree of respect for them and they would be a far more influential force in the British Middle east and Africa.

So if our PoD is "Hitler decides to hold off on invading Russia until the UK and/or USA are knocked out", Germany and Italy's most likely allies in the Middle East are the Muslim Brotherhood, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party, and/or other Arab and Muslim nationalist movements.

[The South Falls]

Britain would never accept the peace, that's what the obstacle is here. America's lend lease and Russia's production capacity could have kept it alive for the allies

Britain not accepting peace is dependent on quite a few things, as I've just listed. Most of them are outside of the Nazi's direct control, but all of them are more than possible, and there were ways the Nazis could make certain of them more likely. If this happens in 1940, neither America nor the Soviet Union are at war with Nazi Germany and they may well never be.

Each of those outcomes are unlikely though. However, if they were to happen, then yes, that would be the case. However some of these outcomes are too slim of a chance to consider.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.

The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.

True, but the average German infantryman would've been better equipped and trained than the average Soviet infantryman. Plus, the Soviet Air Force was dogshit compared to the Luftwaffe. Tanks were really the only place the Soviets had the Germans beat during the war.

[Wysten]

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?

Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.

"Even the Nazis on their deathhbed had better shit." Except for the fact that almost all German AFVs post Pz IV were suffering from shitty transmissions and crew ergonomics.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The Soviets had inferior technology and equipment, though. Their air force was a just, their armored divisions at the time were "meh" at best, and their infantry were mostly motley conscripts in rags armed with 19th century rifles. What kept winning them the day was the sheer number of them and their burning desire for revenge. Remove the latter and all you'll have is massacres and mass desertions.

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

The King Tiger laughs at your claims

fuck it broke down again

[Torrocca]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

Ah, really? Shoot, I might stand corrected on my point above, then. I always thought the Nazis got the good guns and logistics.

Nah, especially not during the late war. The big cats were an atrocious mess of failure after failure. The only things the Nazis really had going for them equipment-wise in the late war was the Panzer IV (which was surpassed easily by Shermans and T-34s), the MG-34 and 42 (which were effective as hell against infantry forces but really fucking sucked when it came to conserving ammunition), the STG-44 (which was way too few in number to be a serious game-changer) and most of its early-war equipment in niche situations.

Even early war, the German logistical condition was a fucking nightmare that was almost entirely fueled by pack animals rather than vehicles.

Still, how were their tech matchup like when Operation Barbarossa happened?

It was... okay. The Soviets had early T-34s and KV-series tanks squaring up against the early-war panzers, and for the most part infantry equipment was on par with its opposing counterpart (the exception being machine guns and submachine guns: the PPSh outperformed the MP-40 and vice-versa with the MG-34 and the DP-27 on fire rates).

[North Arkana]

The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.

True, but the average German infantryman would've been better equipped and trained than the average Soviet infantryman. Plus, the Soviet Air Force was dogshit compared to the Luftwaffe. Tanks were really the only place the Soviets had the Germans beat during the war.

Padding your kill stats with biplanes and I-16s suddenly sucks when you run into Yak-3s and La-5Ns who shit all over you.

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

The King Tiger laughs at your claims

fuck it broke down again

Upper Glacis Plate cracking to 122mm HE shells intensifies

[Wysten]

The "good German shit" didn't come until after Barbarossa either. Prior to and during Barbarossa you have Pz IIs which are inferior to BTs and T-26s. Panzer IIIs and IVs meanwhile are struggling to deal with unprepared T-34 units, and getting the snot beaten out of them by KV units.

True, but the average German infantryman would've been better equipped and trained than the average Soviet infantryman. Plus, the Soviet Air Force was dogshit compared to the Luftwaffe. Tanks were really the only place the Soviets had the Germans beat during the war.

>Better Equipped
Eh, your average Heer soldat would still be using the Kar 98 while the Soviets were churing out PPSh-41 and 42s for whole regiments.
>Better Trained
True for early war, not true for mid-late war.
>Red Air Force is worst than the Luftwaffe
Not really given the fact that the Soviets had excellent CAS in regards to the IL2. Mid to late war Luftwaffe was a shadow of it's formal self given the high rate of loss for German pilots and planes it rapidly decreased the effectiveness of the force.

[The South Falls]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

The King Tiger laughs at your claims

fuck it broke down again

I'll get the Maus...

[Torrocca]

Laughably one-sided. Soviet equipment was always behind the West. Even the Nazis on their deathbed still had better stuff; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Most of the good shit the Soviets had didn't come in until after Barbarossa had happened - which if Hitler had been smarter about Barbarossa, or had launched it sooner - would have been too little too late.

"Even the Nazis on their deathhbed had better shit." Except for the fact that almost all German AFVs post Pz IV were suffering from shitty transmissions and crew ergonomics.

"Hans! Ze transmission burned out again!"
"Vhat? Ve haven't even left ze factory yet!"

[Washington Resistance Army]

The King Tiger laughs at your claims

fuck it broke down again

I'll get the Maus...

Unironically the best armored vehicle of the war tbqh

[North Arkana]

"Even the Nazis on their deathhbed had better shit." Except for the fact that almost all German AFVs post Pz IV were suffering from shitty transmissions and crew ergonomics.

"Hans! Ze transmission burned out again!"
"Vhat? Ve haven't even left ze factory yet!"

"Ze factory vas in Desden."

[Wysten]

Actually, the Soviets had equipment either on-par or surpassing Nazi equipment, especially in the latter years of the war. In addition to that, they had (by the time the Soviet counteroffensive began in force) developed a superior offensive doctrine in the form of Deep Battle that blew the Nazi Blitzkrieg right out of the water.

The King Tiger laughs at your claims

fuck it broke down again

HANS!!! ZE GOTTDAMN TRANSMISSION BROKE AGAIN!!!

[Torrocca]

"Hans! Ze transmission burned out again!"
"Vhat? Ve haven't even left ze factory yet!"

"Ze factory vas in Desden."

"Ze factory didn't even have ze spare parts ve need because the assembly line vas update for ze fifteenth time zhis month."

[Orange-Transvaal]

I'll get the Maus...

Unironically the best armored vehicle of the war tbqh

What, for its ability to be target practice for Allied bombers?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I genuinely feel sorry for the Italians.

They got cucked by the Germans epic-style.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Unironically the best armored vehicle of the war tbqh

What, for its ability to be target practice for Allied bombers?

Maus don't give a shit, it'll survive anything.

[Torrocca]

Unironically the best armored vehicle of the war tbqh

What, for its ability to be target practice for Allied bombers?

Everybody knows that peak performance is when you become a turkey-shoot for ground-attack planes because you can't even top 5 km/h or cross slightly muddy ground.