US Considers Reparations For Slavery

[Ifreann]

And the same way you're paying for everything the government does, good or bad.

Don't tell me you're one of these "taxes are theft" people now.

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You asked how people are suffering from slavery despite not having been enslaved and I told you. Your response is "Well we could have been even more racist". Yeah, I guess you could have. So what?

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Clearly not. Or did you not read the OP?

White families having twenty times more wealth than black families doesn't seem especially equal to me.

Such refreshing naivete.

That'll happen when your system of slavery is racist, and is followed up with other racist policies.

Again. White families have twenty times more wealth than black families.

If there's only $1 billion, that's not going to do much to improve America's schools. I'd suggest redistributing more wealth. Much more.

Are you serious? I don't think it's humanly possible to miss the point as much as you've done without it being on purpose. My response wasn't "We could've been more racist", it was "If your ancestors couldn't bother to find work after they were freed, then that's their problem, and it's not white people's fault you didn't get inheritance"

You're right, the highly racist policies in place in the United States after the abolition of slavery should have posed no impediment to the industrious negro, so anyone who wasn't a millionaire by 1890 was just a lazy sod.

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That's the type of argument you already hear, except it's Obama being president or blacks being allowed to vote, or slavery having been abolished. Many people are already persuaded that there is no racial inequality, no systemic injustice, only individuals who succeed or fail because of their individual efforts. I expect that every step towards equality had been met with cries of "What? Wasn't the last step enough?", I can only assume that every future step will be as well.

Of course they're going to say that. Becase you people keep moving the goalpost. It was fine until a point, but now it's just getting annoying.

EDIT: I know you people are probably going to scream at me, so i'll just say it, by fine i mean that until actual equal rights were achieved, it was good. Now that it's going into the "Reparations" realm, that's when it becomes bad.

Expect the goalposts to continue moving until fully automated luxury gay space communism.

[Skarten]

Are you serious? I don't think it's humanly possible to miss the point as much as you've done without it being on purpose. My response wasn't "We could've been more racist", it was "If your ancestors couldn't bother to find work after they were freed, then that's their problem, and it's not white people's fault you didn't get inheritance"

You're right, the highly racist policies in place in the United States after the abolition of slavery should have posed no impediment to the industrious negro, so anyone who wasn't a millionaire by 1890 was just a lazy sod.

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Of course they're going to say that. Becase you people keep moving the goalpost. It was fine until a point, but now it's just getting annoying.

EDIT: I know you people are probably going to scream at me, so i'll just say it, by fine i mean that until actual equal rights were achieved, it was good. Now that it's going into the "Reparations" realm, that's when it becomes bad.

Expect the goalposts to continue moving until fully automated luxury gay space communism.

Because as we all know, King Crimson used his power to jump from 1900 to 2000, thus meaning that there is no way that the descendants of slaves could have gotten money in that time. And as we also know, there is not a single rich black person today.

[Ifreann]

You're right, the highly racist policies in place in the United States after the abolition of slavery should have posed no impediment to the industrious negro, so anyone who wasn't a millionaire by 1890 was just a lazy sod.

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Expect the goalposts to continue moving until fully automated luxury gay space communism.

Because as we all know, King Crimson used his power to jump from 1900 to 2000, thus meaning that there is no way that the descendants of slaves could have gotten money in that time. And as we also know, there is not a single rich black person today.

Actually, a black man was president once, so there can't be any racism any more.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Because as we all know, King Crimson used his power to jump from 1900 to 2000, thus meaning that there is no way that the descendants of slaves could have gotten money in that time. And as we also know, there is not a single rich black person today.

Actually, a black man was president once, so there can't be any racism any more.

So no one will mind that we don’t give out reparations, as well that ends well

[US-SSR]

It is a documented fact that the current prosperity and power of the US is largely based on taking land from Native Americans and putting African slaves to work on it. The profits from this thievery extended from the cotton fields of the Mississippi basin to the textile mills and manufacturies of New England. No one who has benefited from the strength of the US economy can claim to have no connection to slavery; we are all implicated.

That being said I prefer Ta-Nehisi Coates's solution:

- All African-Americans are automatically registered to vote upon turning 18. No paperwork needed.
- The votes of all African-Americans count for 5/3 of a vote.

I favor this partly because no amount of money could begin to repay the descendants of those who had their land, labor and liberty stolen from them in order to "make America great."

Why would you value one person’s vote over another? That seems antithetical to democratic principles.

Because enslaved Africans were counted as 3/5 of a person for purposes of apportionment, though they were deprived of any right to vote. Makes sense to me to "reciprocate" in the nature of reparations for stealing their ancestors' labor, not to mention a century or so of additional oppression, discrimination and deprivation.

My family didn't come over to the US until AFTER slavery was abolished, so I don't see how I owe reparations.

The current prosperity and power of the US is largely from arms manufacturing during WWI and WWII you ignoramus

During the mid-19th Century the most widely traded commodity in the world was cotton. Sixty percent of US export earnings for decades were from selling cotton, cotton tilled, planted, tended, picked and processed by enslaved Africans on land taken from Native Americans and further financed by bonds collateralized by the lives of enslaved Africans. That prosperity and that theft was the basis for attracting generations of immigrants to the US, many of whom settled on lands taken from Native Americans, many more of whom gained employment in industries that had benefited from either the products of enslaved labor or by selling goods and manufactures to enslavers for use on slave labor camps. No part of the US economy, no individual who lived in or migrated to the US, did not benefit from the uncompensated labor of enslaved Africans -- except for those enslaved and their descendants.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Why would you value one person’s vote over another? That seems antithetical to democratic principles.

Because enslaved Africans were counted as 3/5 of a person for purposes of apportionment, though they were deprived of any right to vote. Makes sense to me to "reciprocate" in the nature of reparations for stealing their ancestors' labor, not to mention a century or so of additional oppression, discrimination and deprivation.

>a shitty thing happened so instead of trying to fix it and move forward we should continue the shitty things

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Because enslaved Africans were counted as 3/5 of a person for purposes of apportionment, though they were deprived of any right to vote. Makes sense to me to "reciprocate" in the nature of reparations for stealing their ancestors' labor, not to mention a century or so of additional oppression, discrimination and deprivation.

>a shitty thing happened so instead of trying to fix it and move forward we should continue the shitty things

No, no, no, WRA. Eye for an eye and all that jazz, right? Revenge is gr8.

[US-SSR]

If Black people were to be paid reparations for slavery, should Native Americans have to be paid for what happened in history? Should Chinese people be paid for US involvement in the Boxer Rebellion? Should Hispanics be given money for having Texas break away from them? Should Christians have to be paid for oppression in the Middle East?

It makes utterly no sense.

inb4 “hyuckhyuckhyuck nice strawman you freaking NAZI!”

Yes.

[Washington Resistance Army]

>a shitty thing happened so instead of trying to fix it and move forward we should continue the shitty things

No, no, no, WRA. Eye for an eye and all that jazz, right? Revenge is gr8.

It is tbh

We should take this revenge shit to the next level though. Global thermonuclear warfare, it's the only way to properly punish everyone for their crimes.

[US-SSR]

It's perfectly simple. Slaves worked their whole lives and, through no fault of their own, had no inheritance to give their children. Those children, therefore, started their lives with approximately nothing, and would have been lucky to come to the end of their lives with much of an inheritance to give their children. And so on in that fashion until today. And this all compounds when you realise that the first generation of blacks born after the abolition of slavery were not born into a perfectly egalitarian post-racial society. Other racist policies kept them from accruing wealth.

Well, it's been over a century. America wasn't the most fair against them for some time later still, but it's not like it didn't allow them to get any job at all. So, no, not an excuse.

So, if you're not about to consider evidence that the descendents of enslaved Africans still suffer because of their ancestors' enslavement and therefore deserve reparations, why ask for it at all? How much suffering on the part of which people over what period of time do you need to be shown before you stop just simply dismissing opposing views?

[Skarten]

Well, it's been over a century. America wasn't the most fair against them for some time later still, but it's not like it didn't allow them to get any job at all. So, no, not an excuse.

So, if you're not about to consider evidence that the descendents of enslaved Africans still suffer because of their ancestors' enslavement and therefore deserve reparations, why ask for it at all? How much suffering on the part of which people over what period of time do you need to be shown before you stop just simply dismissing opposing views?

You saying "This Is evidence" does not make It evidence. My country was colonized by Portugal. But you dont see going around yelling at portuguese people to give us all the Gold they extracted. Because differently from you americans, we dont use bad events as an excuse to ask for gibs. Or does It not matter because white man bad, And thus nothing bad ever Happened?

[Skarten]

If Black people were to be paid reparations for slavery, should Native Americans have to be paid for what happened in history? Should Chinese people be paid for US involvement in the Boxer Rebellion? Should Hispanics be given money for having Texas break away from them? Should Christians have to be paid for oppression in the Middle East?

It makes utterly no sense.

inb4 “hyuckhyuckhyuck nice strawman you freaking NAZI!”

Yes.

Then every single country on earth both owes And Is owed reparations, thus canceling the both out, And solving our problem. Hooray for Gibs!

[Holy Tedalonia]

Well, it's been over a century. America wasn't the most fair against them for some time later still, but it's not like it didn't allow them to get any job at all. So, no, not an excuse.

So, if you're not about to consider evidence that the descendents of enslaved Africans still suffer because of their ancestors' enslavement and therefore deserve reparations, why ask for it at all? How much suffering on the part of which people over what period of time do you need to be shown before you stop just simply dismissing opposing views?

How will we track everyones lineage? Even today we find it difficult to find proof whos a descendent of who. Sure there were folks suffering, but who doesn't suffer? Do you want England to give reparations for mismanagement during the patato famine? Please, let foreign aid and welfare mend the pains of the poor.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You're right, the highly racist policies in place in the United States after the abolition of slavery should have posed no impediment to the industrious negro, so anyone who wasn't a millionaire by 1890 was just a lazy sod.

---

Expect the goalposts to continue moving until fully automated luxury gay space communism.

Because as we all know, King Crimson used his power to jump from 1900 to 2000, thus meaning that there is no way that the descendants of slaves could have gotten money in that time. And as we also know, there is not a single rich black person today.

This is just ridiculous. Jim Crow only ended 50 years ago. No community in the US has gone from being that oppressed to being on-par with the average in that short of a time. Political situations like slavery and Jim Crow have long-term effects on social-economic relations, families, education levels, etc. etc. Yes, there are self made men who got rich from nothing, but the majority of people are in a similar economic caste that their ancestors were 100 years or even 150 years ago.

[US-SSR]

So, if you're not about to consider evidence that the descendents of enslaved Africans still suffer because of their ancestors' enslavement and therefore deserve reparations, why ask for it at all? How much suffering on the part of which people over what period of time do you need to be shown before you stop just simply dismissing opposing views?

You saying "This Is evidence" does not make It evidence. My country was colonized by Portugal. But you dont see going around yelling at portuguese people to give us all the Gold they extracted. Because differently from you americans, we dont use bad events as an excuse to ask for gibs. Or does It not matter because white man bad, And thus nothing bad ever Happened?

You asked for evidence that descendents of enslaved Africans were still suffering from the effects of their ancestors' enslavement. It was provided. But instead of contesting that evidence or arguing that being deprived of property, most legal rights, justice, equal treatment under the law, etc. did not actually cause any suffering you changed the subject and started talking about how long it had been since slavery ended. Then you changed the subject again and went completely off topic; this thread is not about Portuguese colonies or what should happen there. Oh and you saying "because white man bad" does not make the case for reparations about that at all.

Let us know when you're ready to display some intellectual honesty.

[Inkopolita]

No, that is retarded. Why not instead use tax payer money that's already there to actually improve living conditions in Black communities instead of having MORE taxes just to give away the tax money, essentially for free?

[The Grims]

No, that is retarded. Why not instead use tax payer money that's already there to actually improve living conditions in Black communities instead of having MORE taxes just to give away the tax money, essentially for free?

Because people here keep claiming that blacks do not need handouts and should just work harder, while getting terribly upset if someone suggests taking away the handouts whites are getting thanks to their ancestors being dicks.

It is good to adress this hypocrisy

[Inkopolita]

No, that is retarded. Why not instead use tax payer money that's already there to actually improve living conditions in Black communities instead of having MORE taxes just to give away the tax money, essentially for free?

Because people here keep claiming that blacks do not need handouts and should just work harder, while getting terribly upset if someone suggests taking away the handouts whites are getting thanks to their ancestors being dicks.

It is good to adress this hypocrisy

How about we stop generalizing?

Key word: Ancestors. Why would a white person pay reparations just because of their skin color? We're more than a century late to punish those who owned slaves. Are we really going to use North Korea's punishment model?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

No, that is retarded. Why not instead use tax payer money that's already there to actually improve living conditions in Black communities instead of having MORE taxes just to give away the tax money, essentially for free?

Because people here keep claiming that blacks do not need handouts and should just work harder, while getting terribly upset if someone suggests taking away the handouts whites are getting thanks to their ancestors being dicks.

It is good to adress this hypocrisy

"If you don't think people should get handouts, why aren't you okay with taking away the wealth of people who share the same skin colour as people who owned slaves 100 years ago?" Honestly, forcing descendants of slave owners to give money to descendants of slaves is sorta like forcing modern day Israelis to give their land back to descendants of the Arabs who were living there before 1948. Or like forcing all non-native inhabitants of the Americas to leave. Sometimes you get to a point where retroactive justice is not feasible.

[Christian Confederation]

Who keeps coming up with these stupid ideas? I now it wasn't AOC this time, so which Democrat was it?

[Inkopolita]

Because people here keep claiming that blacks do not need handouts and should just work harder, while getting terribly upset if someone suggests taking away the handouts whites are getting thanks to their ancestors being dicks.

It is good to adress this hypocrisy

"If you don't think people should get handouts, why aren't you okay with taking away the wealth of people who share the same skin colour as people who owned slaves 100 years ago?" Honestly, forcing descendants of slave owners to give money to descendants of slaves is sorta like forcing modern day Israelis to give their land back to descendants of the Arabs who were living there before 1948. Or like forcing all non-native inhabitants of the Americas to leave. Sometimes you get to a point where retroactive justice is not feasible.

Or that descendants of the victims of the atrocities commited by the soviets in Poland should get paid by every Russian. Or that the Japanese should pay evey person in Southeast Asia that was a victim of Japanese brutality during that era. Honestly, I could go on and on, this whole idea of demanding money from people who had nothing to do with yes, scummy individuals of the past seems pretty stupid to me.

[Christian Confederation]

"If you don't think people should get handouts, why aren't you okay with taking away the wealth of people who share the same skin colour as people who owned slaves 100 years ago?" Honestly, forcing descendants of slave owners to give money to descendants of slaves is sorta like forcing modern day Israelis to give their land back to descendants of the Arabs who were living there before 1948. Or like forcing all non-native inhabitants of the Americas to leave. Sometimes you get to a point where retroactive justice is not feasible.

Or that descendants of the victims of the atrocities commited by the soviets in Poland should get paid by every Russian. Or that the Japanese should pay evey person in Southeast Asia that was a victim of Japanese brutality during that era. Honestly, I could go on and on, this whole idea of demanding money from people who had nothing to do with yes, scummy individuals of the past seems pretty stupid to me.

If that's the case everyone will pay everyone, ex.
Germany must give all there land to Jews and isreal as repramands for the Holocaust, and whale were at it the rest of America should pay the x CSA for the civil War heck let's all pay each other for every little thing we may have done against another.

It is not our responsibility to feel bad about what our ansestors did, as the saying goes you don't punish the son for the sins of the father. What we need to do is learn about the past so we don't repeat it.

[Thermodolia]

Or that descendants of the victims of the atrocities commited by the soviets in Poland should get paid by every Russian. Or that the Japanese should pay evey person in Southeast Asia that was a victim of Japanese brutality during that era. Honestly, I could go on and on, this whole idea of demanding money from people who had nothing to do with yes, scummy individuals of the past seems pretty stupid to me.

If that's the case everyone will pay everyone, ex.
Germany must give all there land to Jews and isreal as repramands for the Holocaust, and whale were at it the rest of America should pay the x CSA for the civil War heck let's all pay each other for every little thing we may have done against another.

It is not our responsibility to feel bad about what our ansestors did, as the saying goes you don't punish the son for the sins of the father. What we need to do is learn about the past so we don't repeat it.

You do realize that Germany pays Israel reparations for the crimes and atrocities they committed right?

[Inkopolita]

If that's the case everyone will pay everyone, ex.
Germany must give all there land to Jews and isreal as repramands for the Holocaust, and whale were at it the rest of America should pay the x CSA for the civil War heck let's all pay each other for every little thing we may have done against another.

It is not our responsibility to feel bad about what our ansestors did, as the saying goes you don't punish the son for the sins of the father. What we need to do is learn about the past so we don't repeat it.

You do realize that Germany pays Israel reparations for the crimes and atrocities they committed right?

Did the German people pay every single Jew that had a family that was killed in the Holocaust and other atrocities with their own tax money, or did the German government give money to the Israeli government?

[Skarten]

You saying "This Is evidence" does not make It evidence. My country was colonized by Portugal. But you dont see going around yelling at portuguese people to give us all the Gold they extracted. Because differently from you americans, we dont use bad events as an excuse to ask for gibs. Or does It not matter because white man bad, And thus nothing bad ever Happened?

You asked for evidence that descendents of enslaved Africans were still suffering from the effects of their ancestors' enslavement. It was provided. But instead of contesting that evidence or arguing that being deprived of property, most legal rights, justice, equal treatment under the law, etc. did not actually cause any suffering you changed the subject and started talking about how long it had been since slavery ended. Then you changed the subject again and went completely off topic; this thread is not about Portuguese colonies or what should happen there. Oh and you saying "because white man bad" does not make the case for reparations about that at all.

Let us know when you're ready to display some intellectual honesty.

There you go again. Saying "I've given you evidence" is not evidence. You're Just saying "Black people had bad stuff happen to them, lets make their vote count more and give them White people's Money!"