US Considers Reparations For Slavery

[Farnhamia]

Not trolling, stating FACT, Farmie. You want to stifle intellectual honesty, go ahead. I'm used to that tactic.

Facts can be stated without being rude.

[Skarten]

Take a single dollar bill and use a 2x4 to shove it up any politically correct lybtard nazzy's wazoo and consider the faux debt paid in full. How's about Uncle Sam making the great society scammers repay the BILLIONS that were flushed down ghetto drains with no demonstrably positive results after 50+ years but that only succeeded in destroying once-safe schools and communities?
Those same traitors refuse to own their own dirty laundry, they've just changed the direction of their fanatical religious PC-ness towards aiding and abetting illegals who dream of overwhelming our country, taxpayers and society, another giant leap backwards towards third world cesspool status. When does the madness that is leftwing illogical fallacy end?
FWIW, I would ask the same of oppressive right-wingers who pander to the 1% and the plundering monopolists and Luddite medieval sky fairy grovelers. Neither side has a mandate to shove their warped philosophies and man-invented religion-inspired policies down the throats of the 40% who won't drink the red or blue cups of Kool Aid and vote for either corrupt party.
Predictable slings and arrows are expected from both groups of brain-dead wankers, but I have no intention on becoming embroiled in or even wasting time reading because neither side's emotional pleadings and alt-facts are credible. You can't debate, you simply love to argue and fiddle and point fingers while the new Rome burns and history continues to repeat itself.
Sincerely,
The Silent Majority, that, btw, has a larger percentage of the eligible electorate than either corrupt side can claim

New Rome? You talking about America?

America is as much of a New Rome as Vietnam is the new Chinese Empire.

[Skarten]

Not trolling, stating FACT, Farmie. You want to stifle intellectual honesty, go ahead. I'm used to that tactic.

Facts can be stated without being rude.

It's not even about that. Ranting on about how the majority of the population (Of Both U.S And The World) are "Ludite Medieval Sky Fairy Grovelers" isn't exactly a fact.

[Oubliettica]

Get real, Farnie, you're listed as a Democratic SOCIALIST, a species whose polarized feelings from living in a fantasy world of speech police get bruised in a stiff breeze. You're okay with your side calling others "racist" but it's "rude" to even-handedly list the many reasons why both sides of the corrupt aisle are oppressive, intolerant wankers. What about doing a LOT more for those in Appalachia or for Native Americans before turning our society over to illegals of a certain demographic or taxing Americans for phony reparations feel good lunacy? Like I said, your side refuses to own it's dirty laundry. So does the other side. I write to make blunt points, trying to remind those blinded by the false consensus effect that a true majority won't kowtow to the contrived two party either/or views.

[Skarten]

Get real, Farnie, you're listed as a Democratic SOCIALIST, a species whose polarized feelings from living in a fantasy world of speech police get bruised in a stiff breeze. You're okay with your side calling others "racist" but it's "rude" to even-handedly list the many reasons why both sides of the corrupt aisle are oppressive, intolerant wankers. What about doing a LOT more for those in Appalachia or for Native Americans before turning our society over to illegals of a certain demographic or taxing Americans for phony reparations feel good lunacy? Like I said, your side refuses to own it's dirty laundry. So does the other side. I write to make blunt points, trying to remind those blinded by the false consensus effect that a true majority won't kowtow to the contrived two party either/or views.

Yep, it's a troll. He used NS Stats to guess someone's ideological position.

[Farnhamia]

Get real, Farnie, you're listed as a Democratic SOCIALIST, a species whose polarized feelings from living in a fantasy world of speech police get bruised in a stiff breeze. You're okay with your side calling others "racist" but it's "rude" to even-handedly list the many reasons why both sides of the corrupt aisle are oppressive, intolerant wankers. What about doing a LOT more for those in Appalachia or for Native Americans before turning our society over to illegals of a certain demographic or taxing Americans for phony reparations feel good lunacy? Like I said, your side refuses to own it's dirty laundry. So does the other side. I write to make blunt points, trying to remind those blinded by the false consensus effect that a true majority won't kowtow to the contrived two party either/or views.

My last word on this: nation designations are assigned based on how one answers issues and sometimes I answer them randomly. I might be something entirely different next week. Again, blunt points can be made without resorting to "Take a single dollar bill and use a 2x4 to shove it up any politically correct lybtard nazzy's wazoo and consider the faux debt paid in full." If you think you've been treated unfairly in this thread, you can certainly appeal my ruling in Moderation.

[Ifreann]

So how responsible are people who are American for failing to prevent the sexual assault of those children?

Yes, maybe I forgot that there are countries other than the US, a country I have never been to. Or maybe I assumed that you're American because there are a lot of Americans on this forum.

---

Irish people aren't white, don't you know 19th century scientific racism?

Define "white". Or "black", for that matter.

Race is a social construct with no basis in biology.

---

But the government would be paying damages out of tax payer's money. Alaskans pay federal taxes just like Texans. Does this mean that all tax payers are responsible?

---

You can't really be responsible as a taxpayer since you don't choose to pay taxes. Sure, you could be unemployed and a hobo, but when that's the only choice other than having a house, a job, and paying taxes, is it really a choice?

Not really. But governments can be made to pay damages, and I've been told in this thread that the government paying for something means that the tax payer is really paying for it, and that damages should only be paid by the people responsible. If we put those things together, then when the government pays damages that means that the tax payer is really the one responsible. Of course, that's not what I believe. But that's what people in this thread have told me is true.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this yet? My sneaky plan is to keep asking if individual tax payers are personally responsible when the government is made to pay out damages. People will naturally explain to me "No Iffy, of course I'm not responsible for that bad thing, I wasn't involved. The government is responsible." Good point, you've convinced me, the government can be responsible for bad things happening separate from tax payers being individually responsible. Hey, wasn't the government responsible for slavery? Didn't it pass and enforce laws facilitating slavery? So wouldn't that mean that the government can be held responsible for slavery and made to pay damages without individual tax payers being responsible?

Oh shit, I've given away my whole plan.

[Oubliettica]

Happy to hear it's your last word. I wanted my first post to be my last word but certain folks wouldn't let it go, reminding me again why forums and opinion polls are useless. Skarten, what you labeled a "rant" (oooh I'm insulted by that rude comment, but did you get a warning citation?) could better be called venting by a wise elder sickened by polarizing semantics games.

To falsely put words in my mouth is an exercise in intellectual dishonesty itself. (again, insulting, but I've a thick skin) I didn't even claim that the Luddite Medieval Sky Fairy Grovelers encompass the entirety of the GOP, much less the "majority population of the world." That's pure hyperbole on YOUR part. Seriously, take a course on reading comprehension.

No, not trolling, Skarten, I haven't bothered posting anything for what, well over a year(?) because it's lost in a sea of dumb. I expressly did not seek to play the speech police game. I just won't cater to marshmallows who can't handle the truth. My post indicted BOTH sides for the mess and I bluntly and honestly answered the OP question. I noticed other "rude" comments directed at one poster or another but I guess a longer post that broadsides both is "more rude" - I don't parse my speech to protect the thin-skinned.

As for appealing to Moderation, been there done that once before... it's a rigged joke. Won't be back for another year or two (no "troll" is that patient!), maybe after the elections put another set of destructive losers in office.

BTW, I'm well aware that the listings under aliases may not accurately reflect someone's true leanings; but replies demanding softball comments or earning warning citations sure do. ) I return you to the forum speech police and those spewing hyperbole, specious rhetoric and marshmallow comments.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Okay, cool, paying damages is strictly for things that you are responsible for.

It's come up in the Trump thread today that immigrant children in US custody were sexually assaulted. It's possible that those children could take a case against the United States and win damages. Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that exactly that happens. The United States pays out millions in damages. I assume you're both tax payers, and I assume you'd both say that the compensation was paid from tax payer's money. So how responsible are you two for failing to prevent the sexual assault of those children? I would have thought "Not at all", but here you both are telling me that if you're paying damages, it's gotta be because you're responsible.

Or instead as what's more common we make the people responsible who directly caused the harm to pay the reparations.

This ^^ They should pay for it with their own dime.

[Ifreann]

Or instead as what's more common we make the people responsible who directly caused the harm to pay the reparations.

This ^^ They should pay for it with their own dime.

The United States is directly responsible for the conditions in which they keep people in custody. If one of these child concentration camps burned down because the US failed to take proper fire safety steps then the US is responsible for that, even if someone else started the fire. Likewise, if the US failed to take proper steps to protect the children in their custody, they could owe damages for that negligence, even if it was someone else who actually harmed the children. The negligence and the assaults are separate things.

[Ifreann]

But fill in any other bad thing the government did for which it could be made to pay damages if that specific example is too bamboozling for you.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

This ^^ They should pay for it with their own dime.

The United States is directly responsible for the conditions in which they keep people in custody. If one of these child concentration camps burned down because the US failed to take proper fire safety steps then the US is responsible for that, even if someone else started the fire. Likewise, if the US failed to take proper steps to protect the children in their custody, they could owe damages for that negligence, even if it was someone else who actually harmed the children. The negligence and the assaults are separate things.

Maybe reparations are in order in that case, but NOT for something that happened over one hundred years ago. Also, our prisons are not concentration camps. While reform is needed, the Soviet gulags, and Nazi death camps were far worse.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

But fill in any other bad thing the government did for which it could be made to pay damages if that specific example is too bamboozling for you.

I ain't indirectly paying for shit that happened over 100 years before I was born. Sorry if that's fucking triggering for you

[Ifreann]

But fill in any other bad thing the government did for which it could be made to pay damages if that specific example is too bamboozling for you.

I ain't indirectly paying for shit that happened over 100 years before I was born. Sorry if that's fucking triggering for you

So you're fine with paying for shit you aren't responsible for, but only if it happened within one century of your birth?

[Skarten]

Define "white". Or "black", for that matter.

Race is a social construct with no basis in biology.

---

You can't really be responsible as a taxpayer since you don't choose to pay taxes. Sure, you could be unemployed and a hobo, but when that's the only choice other than having a house, a job, and paying taxes, is it really a choice?

Not really. But governments can be made to pay damages, and I've been told in this thread that the government paying for something means that the tax payer is really paying for it, and that damages should only be paid by the people responsible. If we put those things together, then when the government pays damages that means that the tax payer is really the one responsible. Of course, that's not what I believe. But that's what people in this thread have told me is true.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this yet? My sneaky plan is to keep asking if individual tax payers are personally responsible when the government is made to pay out damages. People will naturally explain to me "No Iffy, of course I'm not responsible for that bad thing, I wasn't involved. The government is responsible." Good point, you've convinced me, the government can be responsible for bad things happening separate from tax payers being individually responsible. Hey, wasn't the government responsible for slavery? Didn't it pass and enforce laws facilitating slavery? So wouldn't that mean that the government can be held responsible for slavery and made to pay damages without individual tax payers being responsible?

Oh shit, I've given away my whole plan.

Sadly, that plan relies on actually agreeing that we should pay reparations to the descendants of slaves. Which we don't. So oops, your plan is useless.

[Skarten]

I ain't indirectly paying for shit that happened over 100 years before I was born. Sorry if that's fucking triggering for you

So you're fine with paying for shit you aren't responsible for, but only if it happened within one century of your birth?

Maybe it's because all the actual victims will be dead by then (?)

[Skarten]

Happy to hear it's your last word. I wanted my first post to be my last word but certain folks wouldn't let it go, reminding me again why forums and opinion polls are useless. Skarten, what you labeled a "rant" (oooh I'm insulted by that rude comment, but did you get a warning citation?) could better be called venting by a wise elder sickened by polarizing semantics games.

To falsely put words in my mouth is an exercise in intellectual dishonesty itself. (again, insulting, but I've a thick skin) I didn't even claim that the Luddite Medieval Sky Fairy Grovelers encompass the entirety of the GOP, much less the "majority population of the world." That's pure hyperbole on YOUR part. Seriously, take a course on reading comprehension.

No, not trolling, Skarten, I haven't bothered posting anything for what, well over a year(?) because it's lost in a sea of dumb. I expressly did not seek to play the speech police game. I just won't cater to marshmallows who can't handle the truth. My post indicted BOTH sides for the mess and I bluntly and honestly answered the OP question. I noticed other "rude" comments directed at one poster or another but I guess a longer post that broadsides both is "more rude" - I don't parse my speech to protect the thin-skinned.

As for appealing to Moderation, been there done that once before... it's a rigged joke. Won't be back for another year or two (no "troll" is that patient!), maybe after the elections put another set of destructive losers in office.

BTW, I'm well aware that the listings under aliases may not accurately reflect someone's true leanings; but replies demanding softball comments or earning warning citations sure do. ) I return you to the forum speech police and those spewing hyperbole, specious rhetoric and marshmallow comments.

Ah yes, of course you didn't. When you were saying that religious people are a bunch of grovelers following an man-made belief, you weren't actually calling them luddite sky fairy grovelers, you were just saying that religious people that are religious are! Of course, that makes sense.

[New Fascist World Order]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/us/politics/2020-democrats-race-policy.html

More and more US Democratic Presidential candidates are supporting some form of financial reparations for descendants of African American slaves:

Even among the 2020 Democrats who stopped short of endorsing reparations, several have laid out robust policies aimed at closing the gap in wealth between black and white families. Scholars estimate that black families in America today earn just $57.30 for every $100 in income earned by white families, according to the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey. For every $100 in white family wealth, black families hold just $5.04.

It's a difficult topic imo. Black families were originally planned to get paybacks in land and money (if you've ever heard the expression "40 acres and a mule") but never got it. Instead they had to start from nothing, regardless of the racial discrimination they faced from the abolition of slavery in the 1860s to the Civil Rights era in the 1960s. Some even ended up working back on the plantations they were freed from at a very minor wage, and by the time Reconstruction ended, they were living in practical slavery for many more generations. Meanwhile, white families who profited from slavery kept their profits and see that benefit today. This down the line leads to the massive wealth inequality between African Americans and everyone else in the US.

There's also the argument that the mass incarceration of African Americans, stealing mothers and fathers and children from Black families, is the "new slavery". Lost generations of potential wealth, all due to government-sanctioned racism. When you contextualize the value of all the lost wages, or the financial cost of the pain and suffering, it becomes an EXTREMELY expensive endeavor. But is it worth it?

What are some of your thoughts? Does the US government have an obligation to provide financial pay-back to make up for all the lost wealth from hundreds of years of racism and unpaid labor?

Should African-Americans give in? No. Insteadt, they should form a group that gives the choice to the government that if they do not, they will tear away some land and for there own nation.

[Ifreann]

Race is a social construct with no basis in biology.

---

Not really. But governments can be made to pay damages, and I've been told in this thread that the government paying for something means that the tax payer is really paying for it, and that damages should only be paid by the people responsible. If we put those things together, then when the government pays damages that means that the tax payer is really the one responsible. Of course, that's not what I believe. But that's what people in this thread have told me is true.

Does anyone see where I'm going with this yet? My sneaky plan is to keep asking if individual tax payers are personally responsible when the government is made to pay out damages. People will naturally explain to me "No Iffy, of course I'm not responsible for that bad thing, I wasn't involved. The government is responsible." Good point, you've convinced me, the government can be responsible for bad things happening separate from tax payers being individually responsible. Hey, wasn't the government responsible for slavery? Didn't it pass and enforce laws facilitating slavery? So wouldn't that mean that the government can be held responsible for slavery and made to pay damages without individual tax payers being responsible?

Oh shit, I've given away my whole plan.

Sadly, that plan relies on actually agreeing that we should pay reparations to the descendants of slaves. Which we don't. So oops, your plan is useless.

The government is paying damages becuase the victims are still alive, or at least, their direct families are.

Did you know that families can span more than one generation? It's true!

[Czech-Bohemia]

No one should be getting reparations as no one who was a slave during that time is currently alive to receive those reparations. Their descendent's do not get to take the money as they did not suffer under slavery, they were not born into slavery.

Slavery is over.

Also, if these reparations take the form of racial privilege towards black people in America then that is a racist thing to do. If people complain about white privilege then why create black privilege?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I ain't indirectly paying for shit that happened over 100 years before I was born. Sorry if that's fucking triggering for you

So you're fine with paying for shit you aren't responsible for, but only if it happened within one century of your birth?

I would prefer the people responsible for the fuck up to pay. I would only be willing to pay in certain circumstances if I'm not directly responsible, but yes, I'm certainly not paying for something that didn't happen during my lifetime. The people who suffered are long dead. Now that I've told you that, what are you doing to do, go on a tirade on how evil we Americans are? We Americans surely should stop paying for your lack of defense forces.

[Ifreann]

So you're fine with paying for shit you aren't responsible for, but only if it happened within one century of your birth?

I would prefer the people responsible for the fuck up to pay. I would only be willing to pay in certain circumstances if I'm not directly responsible, but yes, I'm certainly not paying for something that didn't happen during my lifetime. The people who suffered are long dead. Now that I've told you that, what are you doing to do, go on a tirade on how evil we Americans are? We Americans surely should stop paying for your lack of defense forces.

Oh honey. Ireland isn't part of NATO. America doesn't have any bases here. You can stop paying the $0 you contribute to our defence any time you like. And we'll close Shannon Airport to US military flights. You ever hear of Shannon? Probably not. America uses it as a stopping off point for flights to and from the Middle East. We contribute more to your foreign wars than you contribute to our defence, so maybe swing your dick somewhere else.

[Bear Stearns]

I'm descended from both slaves and slave-owners.

Do I get money or do I owe it?

[Ifreann]

I'm descended from both slaves and slave-owners.

Do I get money or do I owe it?

Yes.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I would prefer the people responsible for the fuck up to pay. I would only be willing to pay in certain circumstances if I'm not directly responsible, but yes, I'm certainly not paying for something that didn't happen during my lifetime. The people who suffered are long dead. Now that I've told you that, what are you doing to do, go on a tirade on how evil we Americans are? We Americans surely should stop paying for your lack of defense forces.

Oh honey. Ireland isn't part of NATO. America doesn't have any bases here. You can stop paying the $0 you contribute to our defence any time you like. And we'll close Shannon Airport to US military flights. You ever hear of Shannon? Probably not. America uses it as a stopping off point for flights to and from the Middle East. We contribute more to your foreign wars than you contribute to our defence, so maybe swing your dick somewhere else.

Oh darling. Stop trying to guilt trip a nation to promote a left wing agenda. We ain't paying reparations for slavery. Get over it. You should swing your dick somewhere else.