NationStates

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I mean same as Saudi Arabia
They have oil so who cares they’re horrible

There's a difference between realpolitik style "We'll trade with em and ignore their bullshit" and
"If you cut me a cheque i'll beat my peasants while you masturbate."

Macron isn't just ignoring Israel's shit for money. He's oppressing his people on behalf of his financiers.

He's really just doing a smoke bomb tho.

Apologies for making this a "Who's French and who isn't?" thread, here's my opinion on the "Pro-Zionist Bill"(since Anti-Anti- usually means Pro-)

Even though I support Israel existing as a Jewish state, I think if you don't like it you should be allowed to say you don't. I should also be allowed to suggest you're an anti-Semite if you don't like Israel, since freedom of speech does not mean freedom from response.

This law is idiotic and based on the same bullshit cynical politicking as many recent accusations of "anti-Semitism" (read: anti-Zionism) in the US and UK. Criticizing Israel =/= criticizing Jews. Does it suck that some anti-Semites use "anti-Zionism" as a means of hiding their own bigotry? Yes, but that doesn't make anti-Zionism bad by association. Zionism is literally just Jewish nationalism, and I'm opposed to all forms of nationalism (in theory--in practice I do support the concept of national self-determination, but that's a slightly different discussion). It's one thing to argue the Jews deserve their own homeland (a position I actually agree with), it's another entirely to argue that that means the government of Israel should be shielded from any and all criticism--no one argues that criticizing France means you're "anti-French," so why does that logic apply here? In fact, why does that logic only apply to Israel and no other country?

/endrant

Novus America wrote:

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:The Israeli government spends $16.6 million a year ($13.79 million from pro-Israel NGOs) lobbying the US government, according to opensecrets.org. I don't know about France but some similar organization to opensecrets might exist and the statistics would probably be comparable.

Yes, though Israel is not the only one. Lobbying is legal so they are not wrong to do it within certain restrictions.

A somewhat dated listed, but very interesting one. Israel is not in the very top.
https://www.propublica.org/article/addi ... bbying-718

Repulsive, yet not surprising, is the presence of the likes of Turkey and Saudi-Arabia in the Top 10.
The Netherlands also being there does come as a surprise though.

Baltenstein wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Yes, though Israel is not the only one. Lobbying is legal so they are not wrong to do it within certain restrictions.

A somewhat dated listed, but very interesting one. Israel is not in the very top.
https://www.propublica.org/article/addi ... bbying-718

Repulsive, yet not surprising, is the presence of the likes of Turkey and Saudi-Arabia in the Top 10.
The Netherlands also being there does come as a surprise though.

Reminder that that link is a decade out of date. The Dutch government didn't spend any on lobbying in 2018 and Dutch NGOs only spent $350,000.

https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries/95

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:

Baltenstein wrote:
Repulsive, yet not surprising, is the presence of the likes of Turkey and Saudi-Arabia in the Top 10.
The Netherlands also being there does come as a surprise though.

Reminder that that link is a decade out of date. The Dutch government didn't spend any on lobbying in 2018 and Dutch NGOs only spent $350,000.

https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries/95

I admit it is dated. Point is the Israel lobby is not the only one, or even always the best funded one. Its influence is exaggerated.

Novus America wrote:

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Reminder that that link is a decade out of date. The Dutch government didn't spend any on lobbying in 2018 and Dutch NGOs only spent $350,000.

https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries/95

I admit it is dated. Point is the Israel lobby is not the only one, or even always the best funded one. Its influence is exaggerated.

Given how the US literally falls over itself to help Israel? No, it isn't. At the very least its influence is on par with Saudi Arabia (another country that receives disproportionate support from the US). That said, I think this may be getting a little bit off-topic.

Byzconia wrote:

Novus America wrote:
I admit it is dated. Point is the Israel lobby is not the only one, or even always the best funded one. Its influence is exaggerated.

Given how the US literally falls over itself to help Israel? No, it isn't. At the very least its influence is on par with Saudi Arabia (another country that receives disproportionate support from the US). That said, I think this may be getting a little bit off-topic.

Missused literally but anyways support for Israel in the US is not just too down, unlike Saudi Arabia. It is more because many Americans genuinely support Israel for various reasons, not because most get any money.
But yeah, not really on this topic.

Why will nobody create a general Israel Palestine thread?
People love to talk about it in other threads, but do not make one.

Novus America wrote:

Byzconia wrote:Given how the US literally falls over itself to help Israel? No, it isn't. At the very least its influence is on par with Saudi Arabia (another country that receives disproportionate support from the US). That said, I think this may be getting a little bit off-topic.

Missused literally but anyways support for Israel in the US is not just too down, unlike Saudi Arabia. It is more because many Americans genuinely support Israel for various reasons, not because most get any money.
But yeah, not really on this topic.

Why will nobody create a general Israel Palestine thread?
People love to talk about it in other threads, but do not make one.

I was referring to politicians, not the US public.

Because it would probably devolve into insults and racism within .2 seconds after creation.

Novus America wrote:

Byzconia wrote:Given how the US literally falls over itself to help Israel? No, it isn't. At the very least its influence is on par with Saudi Arabia (another country that receives disproportionate support from the US). That said, I think this may be getting a little bit off-topic.

Missused literally but anyways support for Israel in the US is not just too down, unlike Saudi Arabia. It is more because many Americans genuinely support Israel for various reasons, not because most get any money.
But yeah, not really on this topic.

Why will nobody create a general Israel Palestine thread?
People love to talk about it in other threads, but do not make one.

Middle East Conflict thread is what you're looking for.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=416586

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:

Novus America wrote:
Missused literally but anyways support for Israel in the US is not just too down, unlike Saudi Arabia. It is more because many Americans genuinely support Israel for various reasons, not because most get any money.
But yeah, not really on this topic.

Why will nobody create a general Israel Palestine thread?
People love to talk about it in other threads, but do not make one.

Middle East Conflict thread is what you're looking for.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=416586

That thread is dead.
Mods do not like reviving zombies threads.

Novus America wrote:

Sahansahiye Iran wrote:Middle East Conflict thread is what you're looking for.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=416586

That thread is dead.
Mods do not like reviving zombies threads.

It's a megathread and only been a month. I don't think there'd be a problem. But not a mod so meh.