France Considers Anti-Anti-Zionist Bill

[Ostroeuropa]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

[Senegalboy]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This will basically give the anti semitic conspiracies that the Jews run the world more credibility.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

[Ostroeuropa]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This will basically give the anti semitic conspiracies that the Jews run the world more credibility.

Our elites dont care about us at all and will do anything foreigners give them money for. Israel has money.

The Israeli government has more of a say on how we are governed than we do. That's not a conspiracy, that's neoliberal capitalism. Our elites have money and we don't, foreigners have money and our elites want it, and so will fuck us over to get that money if the foreigners pay them.

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

They keep escalating though.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

While that’s true, there might some difficulties in just declaring a land that other people are living in to be your nation. That’s not necessarily the fault of the Jews or really the Israeli state. Once again, the fucking Brits are to blame.


Then your argument against anti-zionism, insofar as it means that one thinks that the creation of the Israeli state was a bad move, is what exactly? I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from here.

Anti-zionism isn't "The State of Israel shouldn't have been created". Anti-zionism is "The State of Israel, because it is a Jewish State, should be dismantled".

Or it's just because you're against ethnic nationalism in general? Not specifically anti-Semitic.

[Saranidia]

This will basically give the anti semitic conspiracies that the Jews run the world more credibility.

Our elites dont care about us at all and will do anything foreigners give them money for. Israel has money.

The Israeli government has more of a say on how we are governed than we do. That's not a conspiracy, that's neoliberal capitalism.

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

They keep escalating though.

Very valid points.

[Saranidia]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

Do you support Jeremy Corbyn then?

[Internationalist Bastard]

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

Do you support Jeremy Corbyn then?

I literally don’t even know who he is, just the name

[Internationalist Bastard]

This will basically give the anti semitic conspiracies that the Jews run the world more credibility.

Our elites dont care about us at all and will do anything foreigners give them money for. Israel has money.

The Israeli government has more of a say on how we are governed than we do. That's not a conspiracy, that's neoliberal capitalism. Our elites have money and we don't, foreigners have money and our elites want it, and so will fuck us over to get that money if the foreigners pay them.

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

They keep escalating though.

I mean same as Saudi Arabia
They have oil so who cares they’re horrible

[Senegalboy]

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

Do you support Jeremy Corbyn then?

I'm a Labour voter but neutral towards Corbyn.

[Senegalboy]

This will basically give the anti semitic conspiracies that the Jews run the world more credibility.

Our elites dont care about us at all and will do anything foreigners give them money for. Israel has money.

The Israeli government has more of a say on how we are governed than we do. That's not a conspiracy, that's neoliberal capitalism. Our elites have money and we don't, foreigners have money and our elites want it, and so will fuck us over to get that money if the foreigners pay them.

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

They keep escalating though.

I agree.The government needs to put people before profit.

[Ostroeuropa]

Do you support Jeremy Corbyn then?

I literally don’t even know who he is, just the name

He's a socialist man from the 70s labour party in the UK who the Blairites forgot to purge. The Blairites (Neoliberal clinton style) had an election with 4 of them largely doing the same policies and put Corbyn there too to make them look sane by comparison.
He won 70% of the vote.

As a 70s era socialist he's full of weird stuff like being pro united Ireland, pro Palestine, pro coal miner, and so on.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Is Israel doing a diplomatic offensive or something?
First Corbyn, now this?

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

The Israeli government spends $16.6 million a year ($13.79 million from pro-Israel NGOs) lobbying the US government, according to opensecrets.org. I don't know about France but some similar organization to opensecrets might exist and the statistics would probably be comparable.

[Saranidia]

Do you support Jeremy Corbyn then?

I literally don’t even know who he is, just the name

He is the leader of the Labour Party(the main left-wing party and second main party in British politics),
he is known for his advocacy of the rights of women, Muslims, workers, poor people and "the many"(working and lower middle-class people)
as well as humanitarianism which includes advocacy of Palestinian rights.
He is condemned on the right for "anti-semitism" and having Marxist sympathies.

[Ostroeuropa]

Our elites dont care about us at all and will do anything foreigners give them money for. Israel has money.

The Israeli government has more of a say on how we are governed than we do. That's not a conspiracy, that's neoliberal capitalism. Our elites have money and we don't, foreigners have money and our elites want it, and so will fuck us over to get that money if the foreigners pay them.

They keep escalating though.

I mean same as Saudi Arabia
They have oil so who cares they’re horrible

There's a difference between realpolitik style "We'll trade with em and ignore their bullshit" and
"If you cut me a cheque i'll beat my peasants while you masturbate."

Macron isn't just ignoring Israel's shit for money. He's oppressing his people on behalf of his financiers.

[Senegalboy]

I mean same as Saudi Arabia
They have oil so who cares they’re horrible

There's a difference between realpolitik style "We'll trade with em and ignore their bullshit" and
"If you cut me a cheque i'll beat my peasants while you masturbate."

Macron isn't just ignoring Israel's shit for money. He's oppressing his people on behalf of his financiers.

Unfortunately this isn't something limited to France.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I literally don’t even know who he is, just the name

He is the leader of the Labour Party(the main left-wing party and second main party in British politics),
he is known for his advocacy of the rights of women, Muslims, workers, poor people and "the many"(working and lower middle-class people)
as well as humanitarianism which includes advocacy of Palestinian rights.
He is condemned on the right for "anti-semitism" and having Marxist sympathies.

Oh I’d have to learn more about him before I tossed in my view of him

[Senegalboy]

What France is doing what the establishment always does. When there is a debate which it doesn't what to hear it simply shuts the debate down.

[Novus America]

Anti-zionism isn't "The State of Israel shouldn't have been created". Anti-zionism is "The State of Israel, because it is a Jewish State, should be dismantled".

Anti Zionism is opposing the a formation of a Jewish homeland in the Biblical land of Israel.The definition you gave would mean that anti zionists are also anti semitic.

But by that definition it is an obsolete idea.

[Cedoria]

I always found this 'right to exist' distinction to be absurd.

When you say Israel has a 'right to exist within secure borders', you can't really do that without defining where those borders should actually be.

Neither the defenders of the Israeli occupation nor the Israeli Government themselves have ever done this. You'll note, every other country does do this.

For the complaints of the defenders of the Israeli occupation about why those opposed to it don't treat Israel like a normal country, I agree, it should be treated as a normal country, meaning it should be made to define where it considers it's borders actually are, if it wants to be taken seriously as both a respected nation and a partner in any peace process, instead of a rogue colonial power, the way it is presently behaving.

[Saranidia]

I always found this 'right to exist' distinction to be absurd.

When you say Israel has a 'right to exist within secure borders', you can't really do that without defining where those borders should actually be.

Neither the defenders of the Israeli occupation nor the Israeli Government themselves have ever done this. You'll note, every other country does do this.

For the complaints of the defenders of the Israeli occupation about why those opposed to it don't treat Israel like a normal country, I agree, it should be treated as a normal country, meaning it should be made to define where it considers it's borders actually are, if it wants to be taken seriously as both a respected nation and a partner in any peace process, instead of a rogue colonial power, the way it is presently behaving.

Ameen to that!

[Novus America]

This is literally just normal for Israel
It’s part of the reason I’m more critical of them then other human rights violators

The Israeli government spends $16.6 million a year ($13.79 million from pro-Israel NGOs) lobbying the US government, according to opensecrets.org. I don't know about France but some similar organization to opensecrets might exist and the statistics would probably be comparable.

Yes, though Israel is not the only one. Lobbying is legal so they are not wrong to do it within certain restrictions.

A somewhat dated listed, but very interesting one. Israel is not in the very top.
https://www.propublica.org/article/addi ... bbying-718

[Sahansahiye Iran]

The Israeli government spends $16.6 million a year ($13.79 million from pro-Israel NGOs) lobbying the US government, according to opensecrets.org. I don't know about France but some similar organization to opensecrets might exist and the statistics would probably be comparable.

Yes, though Israel is not the only one. Lobbying is legal so they are not wrong to do it within certain restrictions.

A somewhat dated listed, but very interesting one. Israel is not in the very top.
https://www.propublica.org/article/addi ... bbying-718

I mean, just because something is legal doesn't make it not wrong. And that link is 10 years and almost an entire presidential administration out of date lol.

[Novus America]

Yes, though Israel is not the only one. Lobbying is legal so they are not wrong to do it within certain restrictions.

A somewhat dated listed, but very interesting one. Israel is not in the very top.
https://www.propublica.org/article/addi ... bbying-718

I mean, just because something is legal doesn't make it not wrong. And that link is 10 years and almost an entire presidential administration out of date lol.

I know, I will try to find a better one. Just pointing out it is an interesting dynamic.
Japan is still a huge lobbyist though, I know that.
China is much bigger now though than then.

Sure legal does not make it right, but it would be absurd for Israel not to use the same legal means to protect itself others, including not friendly ones do.

It would be stupid for Israel to unilaterally decide it should not also do so because it is ethically questionable.

I hate foreign lobbying but cannot say Israel, the UK, Japan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc. are wrong for doing it if we let them do it.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I mean, just because something is legal doesn't make it not wrong. And that link is 10 years and almost an entire presidential administration out of date lol.

I know, I will try to find a better one. Just pointing out it is an interesting dynamic.
Japan is still a huge lobbyist though, I know that.
China is much bigger now though than then.

Sure legal does not make it right, but it would be absurd for Israel not to use the same legal means to protect itself others, including not friendly ones do.

It would be stupid for Israel to unilaterally decide it should not also do so because it is ethically questionable.

Of course. I was simply pointing out a possible reasoning behind a large portion of their support.

https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries here's an up-to-date link, btw. Not a list but just hover over countries or adjust the slider. Israel, Japan, and the ROK seem to be top 3. ROK at number 1.