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France Considers Anti-Anti-Zionist Bill

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SD_Film Artists
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France Considers Anti-Anti-Zionist Bill

Postby SD_Film Artists » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:29 am

Yes, anti-zionism not just anti-semitism.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190220-fr ... sm-illegal

A group of French lawmakers proposed a bill on Monday that would make anti-Zionism a criminal offence in the same way that anti-Semitism is illegal in France. But many argue that opposition to Israel is not comparable to anti-Semitism.


Sylvain Maillard, one of the French lawmakers behind the proposal to criminalise anti-Zionism, has rejected accusations that his bill conflates the two issues.

“You can criticise the Israeli government, but not question the state’s right to exist,” he said.“No one is questioning the France or Germany’s right to exist.”


“We know that [French comic] Dieudonné and [French far-right author] Alain Soral, both of whom have been convicted for inciting hatred against Jews, have adopted the habit of substituting the word ‘Zionist’ for ‘Jew’ and ‘anti-Zionist’ for ‘anti-Semite’ to avoid legal troubles,” Vidal said.


https://www.france24.com/en/20190220-ma ... ti-zionism

France will additionally take steps to define "anti-Zionism as a modern-day form of anti-Semitism", Macron told the French Jewish groups gathered on Wednesday. The definition is in line with that advocated by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, Macron said.


Would you support such a law?
I have mixed feelings on this as outlawing anti-zionism could go a long way to stamping out anti-semitism by removing the loophole of racists using anti-zionist movements as a safe harbour. However it's also a blunt tool as depending on how the bill is worded it could end up criminalising honest, non-racist criticism of Israel; effectively introducing a 'crime of opinion'.

For example, would protesting against illegal settlements be criminalised or would you have to specifically deny Israel's right to exist? Also would anti-zionist jews be anti-semitic?

In short, it seems well-meaning but difficult to enforce without becoming draconian.
Last edited by SD_Film Artists on Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:30 am

So basically they want to make it illegal to protest against a political entity.

Yeah, no.
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:32 am

Considering anti Semitism is already illegal this is literally just a bill that makes it illegal to be against Israel
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Postby Western Vale Confederacy » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:36 am

Vassenor wrote:So basically they want to make it illegal to protest against a political entity.

Yeah, no.


On the other hand, many are using the "it’s anti-Zionism, not anti-Semitism!" excuse to actually be anti-Semitic, so it really isn’t flowers and pink on the other side of the fence.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:42 am

I'm sure banning criticism of Israel will totally not fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and help the far right.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:42 am

Thats Fucking bullshit.

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm sure banning criticism of Israel will totally not fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and help the far right.

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New Arzotska
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Postby New Arzotska » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:46 am

It'S dA jOoZ

Slippery slope to banning legitimate criticism of Israeli conduct in its conflict with Palestine.

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Bogan Laker
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Postby Bogan Laker » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:46 am

Is it just me, or has there been a lot of threads about freedom of speech and stuff?
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Postby New Bremerton » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:58 am

As a staunch Zionist myself, I disagree with any law that criminalizes speech that doesn't directly incite violence, including racist, antisemitic hate speech. Europe should learn from the United States and stop trying to censor non-violent hate speech. That would really simplify everything. Such laws play right into the hands of actual antisemites who believe there is a Jewish conspiracy to suppress Holocaust denial and legitimate criticism of Israel. These people should not be arrested in the first place.
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Prusenreich
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Postby Prusenreich » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:00 am

This will backfire and make people dislike Israel more as banning disagreeing with Israel would cause people to become more suspicious
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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:24 am

No, France, stop.
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:29 am

I'd support this law if and only if it is written so that it only prohibited using anti-Zionism as a proxy for anti-semitism. Under no circumstances should it be illegal to legitimately criticize a nation's government, but at the same time, the writers of the law do have something of a point.

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Astoriya
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Postby Astoriya » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:34 am

Hold up a minute... no!

though you will have the few people hiding genuinely antisemitic overtones behind anti-Zionism, allowing a bill like this to be passed will inevitably crack down on legitimate criticism of Israel

:eyebrow:

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Chestaan
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Postby Chestaan » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:38 am

Load of crap. Criticising the state of Israel is not anti-semitic.
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The Grims
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Postby The Grims » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:18 am

So a Jew who claims that the state of Isreal should not currently exist for lack of a messiah would be a criminal ?

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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:19 am

The Grims wrote:So a Jew who claims that the state of Isreal should not currently exist for lack of a messiah would be a criminal ?

Or a Jew who just thinks the state of Israel was horribly executed?
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am

Just another example where European countries are depriving people of their god given right to free speech
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:22 am

I think anti-speech laws like this are stupid on principle and I think really it's pointless, Israel doesn't give a single fuck about the opinions of people who hate Israel.

And Israel doesn't have too, even if massive Israel haters took over every country in the planet Israel has nukes and can protect themselves.
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Postby Len Hyet » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:23 am

Frenchman 1: "We have a rash of Anti-Semitism, what should we do? Should we try to educate the youth in public schools? Should we crack down on hate crimes?"
Frenchman 2: "No no, we should do something that will undoubtedly backfire horribly."

:roll:
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Karu Nadu
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Postby Karu Nadu » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:24 am

Ah, yes. These people have been masquerading as anti-zionists, but now if the law is passed -and it probably won't be- these people will have to refer to themselves as "anti-anti-anti-zionists"

Also: Excuse me what the fuck? France is doing more stupid shit by the second.

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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:25 am

Len Hyet wrote:Frenchman 1: "We have a rash of Anti-Semitism, what should we do? Should we try to educate the youth in public schools? Should we crack down on hate crimes?"
Frenchman 2: "No no, we should do something that will undoubtedly backfire horribly."

:roll:

To quote WRA

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm sure banning criticism of Israel will totally not fuel anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and help the far right.
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Postby Russian Panzer Battalion » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:38 am

Frenchmen 1: To fix the Anti-Semitics pretending to be Anti-Zionist, LET'S MAKE BEING ANTI-ZIONIST ILLEGAL!
Frenchman 2: Wouldn't that just fuel Anti-Semitic "The Jews rule earth becuz reasons" Conspiracy theories?
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Anti-Semitic Frenchmen: LOOK DA JEWS RULE EARTH PROOOF!!
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Thanks France!
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Mystic Warriors
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Postby Mystic Warriors » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:41 am

Fine by me. Just trying to stop people from hiding hate under different names.
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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:44 am

Mystic Warriors wrote:Fine by me. Just trying to stop people from hiding hate under different names.

You don't fight hate with suppression, it's like using lighter fluid to stop a fire.
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Postby Sahansahiye Iran » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:45 am

Mystic Warriors wrote:Fine by me. Just trying to stop people from hiding hate under different names.

Yup. My opposition to Israel totally means I hate Jews. Someone better tell my Jewish stepmother and Jewish girlfriend, both of whom I adore and both of whom actually oppose Israel, too.
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