Is there anything glorious about war?

[Andsed]

You're painfully delusional, but that's likely because you've never fought in a war.

There's a reason so many people suffer from PTSD. War isn't glorious. It's dirty. Lines get muddled, kids get blown to ribbons because they could have been holding a weapon.

Glorifying war to the extend you do is just a tad disrespectful mate.

I think that If you get PTSD, it just means that war is not for you (and that’s fine)

You are still worthy of honor, glory, and praise for participating in the greatest endeavor (combat for the nation)

In fact, I myself may get PTSD too if I joined, fought and came back. But it’s the price to pay for greatness sometimes.

It’s too bad the real army won’t take me in because of fitness issues. But when the next major war comes around I doubt they’ll be this picky. Then I’ll join and either I will be killed (and be part of eternal glory) or I come home a hero. If it turns out otherwise i will accept all the I Told You Sos in good sport.

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think that If you get PTSD, it just means that war is not for you (and that’s fine)

You are still worthy of honor, glory, and praise for participating in the greatest endeavor (combat for the nation)

In fact, I myself may get PTSD too if I joined, fought and came back. But it’s the price to pay for greatness sometimes.

It’s too bad the real army won’t take me in because of fitness issues. But when the next major war comes around I doubt they’ll be this picky. Then I’ll join and either I will be killed (and be part of eternal glory) or I come home a hero. If it turns out otherwise i will accept all the I Told You Sos in good sport.

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

Some people do not get PTSD right?

[Andsed]

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

Some people do not get PTSD right?

Yes some do not get PTSD. But war is not some cool adventure. It is one of the most horrific and scariest things someone could ever go through. I am not a veteran but I know this much. When you fight you see horrific things that no man should see.

[Deutschess Kaiserreich]

"People say war is hell. That is not true. War is war and hell is hell but the only difference is that in hell innocent people don't get hurt."
-Unknown

[Infected Mushroom]

Some people do not get PTSD right?

Yes some do not get PTSD. But war is not some cool adventure. It is one of the most horrific and scariest things someone could ever go through. I am not a veteran but I know this much. When you fight you see horrific things that no man should see.

the way I see it, you will be part of something much greater than anything you can possibly see in the civilian realm

yes there will be horrors for sure

[Andsed]

Yes some do not get PTSD. But war is not some cool adventure. It is one of the most horrific and scariest things someone could ever go through. I am not a veteran but I know this much. When you fight you see horrific things that no man should see.

the way I see it, you will be part of something much greater than anything you can possibly see in the civilian realm

yes there will be horrors for sure

And the way I see it you will be thrown into a meat grinder where even if you survive you will likely be mentally scarred. Sure soldiers and their brave actions should be remembered and respected but war and the event of death during war is not glorious.

[Imperium of Dragonia]

Nothing says "glory" like being sent home riddled with bullet holes and missing limbs. From the perspective of people who have never even seen a gun in person, war seems glorious. After all, look! Cool explosions and sounds in that fighting! From the perspective of people who can separate fiction from reality, war is hell, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do to change that, other than not have war in the first place (which in itself is an impossible task, given humanity's violent nature).

If you call the slaughter of hundreds or thousands in any given battle "glorious", I'm sure you don't have any problem with school or workplace shootings either.
At the same time, I'm a bit of a hypocrite in this instance, as I find war to be good, if not flat out justified, in one thing and one thing only: population control.

[The National Salvation Front for Russia]

Nothing says "glory" like being sent home riddled with bullet holes and missing limbs. From the perspective of people who have never even seen a gun in person, war seems glorious. After all, look! Cool explosions and sounds in that fighting! From the perspective of people who can separate fiction from reality, war is hell, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do to change that, other than not have war in the first place (which in itself is an impossible task, given humanity's violent nature).

If you call the slaughter of hundreds or thousands in any given battle "glorious", I'm sure you don't have any problem with school or workplace shootings either.
At the same time, I'm a bit of a hypocrite in this instance, as I find war to be good, if not flat out justified, in one thing and one thing only: population control.

You started out reasonable, and completely right, before taking a long dive into cloud cuckoo land. Justifying war as population control is so flat out wrong, it's sad.

[Imperium of Dragonia]

Nothing says "glory" like being sent home riddled with bullet holes and missing limbs. From the perspective of people who have never even seen a gun in person, war seems glorious. After all, look! Cool explosions and sounds in that fighting! From the perspective of people who can separate fiction from reality, war is hell, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do to change that, other than not have war in the first place (which in itself is an impossible task, given humanity's violent nature).

If you call the slaughter of hundreds or thousands in any given battle "glorious", I'm sure you don't have any problem with school or workplace shootings either.
At the same time, I'm a bit of a hypocrite in this instance, as I find war to be good, if not flat out justified, in one thing and one thing only: population control.

You started out reasonable, and completely right, before taking a long dive into cloud cuckoo land. Justifying war as population control is so flat out wrong, it's sad.

Anytime war is discussed, and there are people who are unironically saying it's glorious really brings out my misanthropic side. Am I going to apologize for that? No.

[Sapientia Et Bellum]

If you are fighting for the survival and betterment of your people, then it is extremely glorious…. There is no better way to die than to die protecting the nation and people you love

[Valentine Z]

I think that If you get PTSD, it just means that war is not for you (and that’s fine)

You are still worthy of honor, glory, and praise for participating in the greatest endeavor (combat for the nation)

In fact, I myself may get PTSD too if I joined, fought and came back. But it’s the price to pay for greatness sometimes.

It’s too bad the real army won’t take me in because of fitness issues. But when the next major war comes around I doubt they’ll be this picky. Then I’ll join and either I will be killed (and be part of eternal glory) or I come home a hero. If it turns out otherwise i will accept all the I Told You Sos in good sport.

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

I second that... PTSD can just happen to anyone, no matter how brave or prepared they are. You can only take loud noises, shouts and yells, and your friends dying around you for so long before you snapped. It doesn't mean mental weakness or that you aren't suited for war; it just sucks for everyone involved.

And I mean everyone. It can happen to a rookie, a sergeant, an officer, even a general if he is a little too close to the warzone.

[Sapientia Et Bellum]

Nothing says "glory" like being sent home riddled with bullet holes and missing limbs. From the perspective of people who have never even seen a gun in person, war seems glorious. After all, look! Cool explosions and sounds in that fighting! From the perspective of people who can separate fiction from reality, war is hell, and there's not a goddamn thing you can do to change that, other than not have war in the first place (which in itself is an impossible task, given humanity's violent nature).

If you call the slaughter of hundreds or thousands in any given battle "glorious", I'm sure you don't have any problem with school or workplace shootings either.
At the same time, I'm a bit of a hypocrite in this instance, as I find war to be good, if not flat out justified, in one thing and one thing only: population control.

Yeah, imma have to ask you to not generalize war hawks as those who believe school shootings are justified... the clash of civilizations is necessary for the development of the world, school shootings just result in purposeless deaths

Take fighting on the Union side of the Civil War, you are fighting to uphold the constitution and its rights for all men no matter the color of their skin... You may die, you may lose a leg or an arm... If you survive, you are celebrated as a hero who help bring about the most important social change in the history of the US... If you die, you are remembered and honored in the same way

[Major-Tom]

As many have said, there is a distinction between necessary and glorious, between breathtaking and honorable. In both of those contrasts, the latter statement is always more accurate. War can be necessary, and within some wars, there are men and women who fight honorably, courageously and with immense bravery.

But glorious? War is still brutal. Glorious is never a term I would use in regards to war.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

Some people do not get PTSD right?

And some people don’t get ptsd after rape that doesn’t mean rapes cool when you don’t get fucked up by it

[Internationalist Bastard]

Are you fucking serious? PTSD happens does not because ¨war was not for you¨ it is because war is hell. IM you don´t know the first thing about war or what it entails.

I second that... PTSD can just happen to anyone, no matter how brave or prepared they are. You can only take loud noises, shouts and yells, and your friends dying around you for so long before you snapped. It doesn't mean mental weakness or that you aren't suited for war; it just sucks for everyone involved.

And I mean everyone. It can happen to a rookie, a sergeant, an officer, even a general if he is a little too close to the warzone.

I’m pretty sure Generals walk away with some horrible ptsd, ordering so much death
But yeah I rather don’t appreciate IMs implication that me and my husband were just not good enough to handle war, that’s why it fucked us up

[Woodfiredpizzas]

Some people do not get PTSD right?

And some people don’t get ptsd after rape that doesn’t mean rapes cool when you don’t get fucked up by it

Some people didn’t get PTSD from trumps election, doesn’t mean trump getting elected is cool when you live in a different country.

Not making a point, it’s just a better analogy.

[Essenes]

No, it’s pointless waste of life, resources, and time. It causes terrible suffering for nothing more than some land or to decide whose ideology is better.
Ultimately, no one wins in a war, since both sides come out with soldiers and civilians suffering from PTSD, permanent disfigurement, or often with an influx of destroyed/homeless families.

[Kubra]

As many have said, there is a distinction between necessary and glorious, between breathtaking and honorable. In both of those contrasts, the latter statement is always more accurate. War can be necessary, and within some wars, there are men and women who fight honorably, courageously and with immense bravery.

But glorious? War is still brutal. Glorious is never a term I would use in regards to war.

There's the bit about teddy roosevelt going to war and having a splendid old time, and then becoming president and finding out that it wasn't really all that splendid for most people.

[Internationalist Bastard]

As many have said, there is a distinction between necessary and glorious, between breathtaking and honorable. In both of those contrasts, the latter statement is always more accurate. War can be necessary, and within some wars, there are men and women who fight honorably, courageously and with immense bravery.

But glorious? War is still brutal. Glorious is never a term I would use in regards to war.

There's the bit about teddy roosevelt going to war and having a splendid old time, and then becoming president and finding out that it wasn't really all that splendid for most people.

Yeah well Teddy got shot and then gave a speech nothing phased that dude

[Valentine Z]

I second that... PTSD can just happen to anyone, no matter how brave or prepared they are. You can only take loud noises, shouts and yells, and your friends dying around you for so long before you snapped. It doesn't mean mental weakness or that you aren't suited for war; it just sucks for everyone involved.

And I mean everyone. It can happen to a rookie, a sergeant, an officer, even a general if he is a little too close to the warzone.

I’m pretty sure Generals walk away with some horrible ptsd, ordering so much death
But yeah I rather don’t appreciate IMs implication that me and my husband were just not good enough to handle war, that’s why it fucked us up

Ohh, yes, that too. Like the time Lord Louis Mountbatten tried to invade France in 1942. It didn't go well for everyone involved because of his poor planning and an attempt to surprise attack.

I mean, I'm sure the man himself has reasons to make it a secret to launch that attack so that the Germans are in the dark, but at the same time without proper intelligence, you can't help but feel sorry for Lord Louis over here.

EDIT: Source was 404, RIP.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Depends on your point of view.

I will however say that I've always been a massive military strategy fan, something about it speaks to me, like Chess.

I guess I adore it because of the complexity and it being super-Chess mixed with Go and Risk.

I also respect close wars and genius men/brilliant strategies, but the loss of life is regrettable.

Personally, I'd prefer if Wars still happened exactly how they did, except it's all done on a virtual map, so no one actually dies.

So, people decide their country's fate with a strategy game basically.

Believe me I dream of Tiny Wars

[Thanatttynia]

Mostly no, but I think saying a hard 'no' (or 'yes') is foolish. Love too sound like a uni professor but it's all relative and dependent on other things.

Ultimately I think whether war is glorious is irrelevant. The wars that are actually fought in this world are only very rarely just and so are morally indefensible, and morality is more important than glory.

I think that If you get PTSD, it just means that war is not for you (and that’s fine)

I love this

[Greater Eireann]

Ideally, war should only happen when there is no other option and the cause is just, such as the defence of your nation. Even then, we should try to keep it as short as possible.

Unfortunately, the main victims of war are the civilians and the innocent young people who are sent to be destroyed by the other side's youth sent for the same purpose. The criminals in charge who start these unjust wars rarely pay for their actions, even when they result in thousands of deaths.

Another thing that I absolutely do not agree with is conscription. It is quite literally saying "go kill for us or we will lock you up in a cell and completely ruin your life." For all practical purposes, it is slavery and it is completely immoral.

[Kubra]

There's the bit about teddy roosevelt going to war and having a splendid old time, and then becoming president and finding out that it wasn't really all that splendid for most people.

Yeah well Teddy got shot and then gave a speech nothing phased that dude

naw the presidency did phase him, he really mellowed out when he actually had to be top dog of the war he pushed. That's pretty weird, given that we usually expect the reverse, folks not being too hot on all the fighting when they're fighting but gung ho when they've got a comfy office.
Guess I can't really say much bad about the guy, he figured it out in the right positions.

[Risottia]

So over in TET there was a discussion about dying for your country and glory during war time. And I figured I would make a thread about it. So NSG do y,all think there is any glory to be found in war?

Me I think think that is a ridiculous question. The only thing that could be considered ¨glorious¨ in war is the bravery of the soldiers. But we should not delude ourselves with ideals of glorious and honorable death for your country. It is not glorious to die for your country it is tragic and should be considered as such.

But that is just what I think so I ask you NSG. Do you think there is anything glorious about war?

The whole point of war isn't dying for your country. If you die for your country, you or your country got something wrong.
The whole point of war is making someone else die for his country. It logically follows that the glorious part isn't the dying part, it's the killing part, with the maiming, the looting, the burning, the enslaving and the raping coming next, not necessarily in the order.