The Future of Secularism

[Liegmenn]

Preserve the Giant wolf from eating us or the huge snake from breaking the oceans!

#Make Valhala Great Again

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

Honestly, #MakeValhalaGreatAgain would be a great hashtag if used unironically

[Neanderthaland]

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Yes Norse Pagans raided other peoples. But we were primarily farmers and traders. We suffered far more at the hands of Christians and those who believed we were 'barbarians'. Do I condone everything we've done in the past? No, and I think we should leave the mistakes we made in the past, and try to make some progress. However seeing as we still are being persecuted for our beliefs, that may be difficult.

You're not really being persecuted for your beliefs, tho. Some guy on the internet made a joke about them.

People may not take your beliefs very seriously, but the only people who would persecute you for them are the same people who would persecute literally any belief other than their own. Thanks to secularism.

[Liberated Communist States]

Yes Norse Pagans raided other peoples. But we were primarily farmers and traders. We suffered far more at the hands of Christians and those who believed we were 'barbarians'. Do I condone everything we've done in the past? No, and I think we should leave the mistakes we made in the past, and try to make some progress. However seeing as we still are being persecuted for our beliefs, that may be difficult.

You're not really being persecuted for your beliefs, tho. Some guy on the internet made a joke about them.

People may not take your beliefs very seriously, but the only people who would persecute you for them are the same people who would persecute literally any belief other than their own. Thanks to secularism.

Hmm, true. And I have an issue with understanding humor, so I apologize if I misunderstood.

As for being persecuted, we are indeed being mocked and shamed. Its hard for Pagans of any sort to come out, I didnt for a few years. And I've been called a 'Heathen' by some, and at best am asked if I believe in Norse Paganism 'as a joke'.

[Neanderthaland]

You're not really being persecuted for your beliefs, tho. Some guy on the internet made a joke about them.

People may not take your beliefs very seriously, but the only people who would persecute you for them are the same people who would persecute literally any belief other than their own. Thanks to secularism.

Hmm, true. And I have an issue with understanding humor, so I apologize if I misunderstood.

As for being persecuted, we are indeed being mocked and shamed. Its hard for Pagans of any sort to come out, I didnt for a few years. And I've been called a 'Heathen' by some, and at best am asked if I believe in Norse Paganism 'as a joke'.

As I said, people do not take your beliefs seriously. That's not the same as being persecuted. Nobody's threatening to hang you, you're not going to be denied a mortgage application because of it.

[The Grims]

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

[Neanderthaland]

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

Well, because Europeans outside of Scandinavia have a rather skewed view of the Vikings for understandable reasons, and no self-respecting Viking is going to play the victim card for themselves.

[Hanafuridake]

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

The noble savage meme strikes again.

[Liberated Communist States]

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

The noble savage meme strikes again.

Do you think the Viking weren't progressive?

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Yes Norse Pagans raided other peoples. But we were primarily farmers and traders. We suffered far more at the hands of Christians and those who believed we were 'barbarians'. Do I condone everything we've done in the past? No, and I think we should leave the mistakes we made in the past, and try to make some progress. However seeing as we still are being persecuted for our beliefs, that may be difficult.

You're not really being persecuted for your beliefs, tho. Some guy on the internet made a joke about them.

People may not take your beliefs very seriously, but the only people who would persecute you for them are the same people who would persecute literally any belief other than their own. Thanks to secularism.

Well, you are luckier, thank god to secularism. :v. A dig by a random (religious) person here to my internet history aand my future suddenly becomes dark.

[Liberated Communist States]

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

Well, because Europeans outside of Scandinavia have a rather skewed view of the Vikings for understandable reasons, and no self-respecting Viking is going to play the victim card for themselves.

They have 'skewed' views of us for religious reasons. And nobody denies we committed violence, but it was mainly to improve the lives of the Nordic peoples, and to prevent food shortages in rough seasons. Some would also say it was also do to overpopulation, but I have not found sufficient evidence for such claims. However, Christians(specifically Catholics) invaded our lands because they simply saw us as 'barbarians' and 'Heathens'. And to expand their own Kingdoms domain(which yes we did on occasion too.. so I won't judge them on that too much). But basically it was to 'civilize' us.

[Liberated Communist States]

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

Honestly, #MakeValhalaGreatAgain would be a great hashtag if used unironically

I disagree, as it has Trump-esque connotations. Also, as Valhalla is one of the realms of the Afterlife, I'm not sure how you could achieve such a goal. Unless Odins architects were slacking on the job, such an occurrence wouldn't happen anyways.

[Neanderthaland]

Well, because Europeans outside of Scandinavia have a rather skewed view of the Vikings for understandable reasons, and no self-respecting Viking is going to play the victim card for themselves.

They have 'skewed' views of us for religious reasons. And nobody denies we committed violence, but it was mainly to improve the lives of the Nordic peoples, and to prevent food shortages in rough seasons. Some would also say it was also do to overpopulation, but I have not found sufficient evidence for such claims. However, Christians(specifically Catholics) invaded our lands because they simply saw us as 'barbarians' and 'Heathens'. And to expand their own Kingdoms domain(which yes we did on occasion too.. so I won't judge them on that too much). But basically it was to 'civilize' us.

That's not at all an accurate representation of what happened. I won't go into it in detail, since it's not the topic of this thread, but characterizing Viking raids as being primarily about food is... wrong. And most of our lands were never invaded at all, but were converted by Scandinavian kings who saw Christianity as an easy way to legitimize their rule.

[Liberated Communist States]

Hmm, true. And I have an issue with understanding humor, so I apologize if I misunderstood.

As for being persecuted, we are indeed being mocked and shamed. Its hard for Pagans of any sort to come out, I didnt for a few years. And I've been called a 'Heathen' by some, and at best am asked if I believe in Norse Paganism 'as a joke'.

As I said, people do not take your beliefs seriously. That's not the same as being persecuted. Nobody's threatening to hang you, you're not going to be denied a mortgage application because of it.

Actually acts of violence do occur against us. Most commonly by Evangelicals(if my memory is correct) and those who think we are all racist-imperialists(which is commonly how we are portrayed in media, alongside the belief that we are worshippers of Satan, which we arent).

[Liberated Communist States]

They have 'skewed' views of us for religious reasons. And nobody denies we committed violence, but it was mainly to improve the lives of the Nordic peoples, and to prevent food shortages in rough seasons. Some would also say it was also do to overpopulation, but I have not found sufficient evidence for such claims. However, Christians(specifically Catholics) invaded our lands because they simply saw us as 'barbarians' and 'Heathens'. And to expand their own Kingdoms domain(which yes we did on occasion too.. so I won't judge them on that too much). But basically it was to 'civilize' us.

That's not at all an accurate representation of what happened. I won't go into it in detail, since it's not the topic of this thread, but characterizing Viking raids as being primarily about food is... wrong. And most of our lands were never invaded at all, but were converted by Scandinavian kings who saw Christianity as an easy way to legitimize their rule.

I did not mean that they were only about food. Of course their were other reasons. Defence of our beliefs being one. Territorial expansion as well, which is a complicated matter. And wealth to be used in trade with neighbours and foreign allies, like the Muslims and Celts.

And yes, many Kings did use Christianity and conversion as tools to legitimize and strengthen their own power. If I recall it was very prominent in Norway and Denmark in the early periods.

[Aglanen]

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

...socially progressive? How so? I haven’t read too deeply into Viking history. Aside from the invasion of Britain, the raids and trade routes established all over Europe, and something about a failed colonization attempt in Canada.

[Aglanen]

Liberated Communist States Wait a minute, Left Nationalist Pact? I know that region, that’s the one lead by New Russia. Bunch of nazbols and strasserists, yeah?

[Liberated Communist States]

Liberated Communist States Wait a minute, Left Nationalist Pact? I know that region, that’s the one lead by New Russia. Bunch of nazbols and strasserists, yeah?

Who is New Russia? And we are a Syncretic group, so we have both MLs and Fascists there, as well as people who don't align with either, such as myself. I don't think the Left-Right division is effective nor beneficial in the matter of progress.

Why do you ask?

[Liberated Communist States]

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

...socially progressive? How so? I haven’t read too deeply into Viking history. Aside from the invasion of Britain, the raids and trade routes established all over Europe, and something about a failed colonization attempt in Canada.

The Nordic cultures allowed divorce, gay and trans peoples and women warriors. And the Holmgang has been claimed as progressive by some, due to it allowing you to challenge anyone, even the Chieftain.

[Liberated Communist States]

Why ? Vikings were relatively peaceful and socially progressive. The church ofc had some negative propaganda, but we know better nowadays.

...socially progressive? How so? I haven’t read too deeply into Viking history. Aside from the invasion of Britain, the raids and trade routes established all over Europe, and something about a failed colonization attempt in Canada.

I belief you are referencing Vinland.

[Korhal IVV]

Everything that God does is right. That doesn't mean what we do is right. If God does something he told us not to, but we do it anyway, we're wrong.
I don't know why you brought up jealousy anyway, what does God, an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being, have to be jealous of?

So lemme get this straight. A God who says that any sin is punishable by eternal suffering and all humans fundamentally have no positive or redeeming qualities except through this God. And then this God goes and explicitly expresses envy, murders countless thousands, simultaneously encourages and prohibits theft, and lies multiple times. And then this God has the nerve to call himself omnibenevolent, and humans devoid of inherent goodness. How anyone can choose to worship this megalomaniac in light of this escapes me.

1. It is not envy. It is more of righteous indignation. He is the only true god, and idolatry is an insult. In addition, as Israel is His people, He is, therefore, their God. They are bound by a covenant, and would seem that humans never fulfill their end of the contract, while God always. Take up a theology class for better understanding.
2. "Murdered" - According to what standard? Yours? If you are referring to the Flood, the Canaanite purge, and etc, it is due to people reaching the breaking point of immorality and sin even after He has given them so much time to repent. These people would have spawned a hundred Slaaneshes if they were left to continue. For more info: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 43vnrnkfv7

3. No. He does encourage theft and lies. He only lets them happen, but they are not by His directive. This is called conditional will: most things that happen are not His direct doing.

[Auristania]

The noble savage meme strikes again.

Do you think the Viking weren't progressive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2veVpMPWA
Jackson Crawford is a University professor of Vikingology. His channel is excellent.

[Kowani]

Do you think the Viking weren't progressive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2veVpMPWA
Jackson Crawford is a University professor of Vikingology. His channel is excellent.

Vikingology.

Suuure...

[Liberated Communist States]

Do you think the Viking weren't progressive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac2veVpMPWA
Jackson Crawford is a University professor of Vikingology. His channel is excellent.

It is quite good, especially since he doesnt follow Norse Paganism himself.

And its not called Vikingology btw.

[Andsed]

So lemme get this straight. A God who says that any sin is punishable by eternal suffering and all humans fundamentally have no positive or redeeming qualities except through this God. And then this God goes and explicitly expresses envy, murders countless thousands, simultaneously encourages and prohibits theft, and lies multiple times. And then this God has the nerve to call himself omnibenevolent, and humans devoid of inherent goodness. How anyone can choose to worship this megalomaniac in light of this escapes me.

1. It is not envy. It is more of righteous indignation. He is the only true god, and idolatry is an insult. In addition, as Israel is His people, He is, therefore, their God. They are bound by a covenant, and would seem that humans never fulfill their end of the contract, while God always. Take up a theology class for better understanding.
2. "Murdered" - According to what standard? Yours? If you are referring to the Flood, the Canaanite purge, and etc, it is due to people reaching the breaking point of immorality and sin even after He has given them so much time to repent. These people would have spawned a hundred Slaaneshes if they were left to continue. For more info: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 43vnrnkfv7

3. No. He does encourage theft and lies. He only lets them happen, but they are not by His directive. This is called conditional will: most things that happen are not His direct doing.

The flood would have been killing toddlers as well. And make up whatever horseshit about how everyone was just totally evil but killing toddlers is murder and evil plain and simple. How were toddlers in any way guilty of any crimes?

Edit: Also not to mention the plagues in Egypt which were unnecessary and killed more innocents because god wanted to win some dick measuring contest with the Egyptian gods because his ego could not take the fact people were worshiping other gods.

[Aglanen]

The flood would have been killing toddlers as well. And make up whatever horseshit about how everyone was just totally evil but killing toddlers is murder and evil plain and simple. How were toddlers in any way guilty of any crimes?

Edit: Also not to mention the plagues in Egypt which were unnecessary and killed more innocents because god wanted to win some dick measuring contest with the Egyptian gods because his ego could not take the fact people were worshiping other gods.

Makes you really question the moral compass of some of these people when they think just about every egregious, despicable act all the way up to global genocide is justifiable if they think their God wills it.