The Future of Secularism

[Aglanen]

Ah, I misunderstood the terms context. So if you wish to be tolerant of all religions wouldn't putting atheists in power be the logical choice? Or am I mistaken?

You're mistaken. Putting atheists in power doesn't mean the state will be religious tolerant/pluralistic.

To put it in your own words, it depends on those in power

[Aglanen]

It seems only logical that someone who isn't religious would be ideal for pluralistic governance, since that person won't be biased to any one in particular. Either that, or someone is basically religious in name only.

[Hystaria]

Honestly, I see the future in the West as secular right-wing nationalism vs. liberal Christianity + Islam

Then you are fighting the wrong battles. Secularism is a leftist invention and anti-white

....I dont see how the concept of the church being free from the goverment, and vice versa is in anyway anti white?

like in the US is was made by some non left white dudes

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Honestly, I see the future in the West as secular right-wing nationalism vs. liberal Christianity + Islam

Then you are fighting the wrong battles. Secularism is a leftist invention and anti-white

Hot take. Seriously, in what way is the belief that the state should neither respect an establishment of religion, nor prohibit its free exercise thereof leftist or racist?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Honestly, I see the future in the West as secular right-wing nationalism vs. liberal Christianity + Islam

There are of course many right-wing atheists as of late, but I've yet to see many Christians who are left-liberals. Other than people like Merkel, even then, she's more conservative than (American) liberal.

[Aglanen]

Then you are fighting the wrong battles. Secularism is a leftist invention and anti-white

....I dont see how the concept of the church being free from the goverment, and vice versa is in anyway anti white?

like in the US is was made by some non left white dudes

And for that matter, Christianity is not a white religion. It has members all over the world and it has its origins in the Middle East.

[Hystaria]

....I dont see how the concept of the church being free from the goverment, and vice versa is in anyway anti white?

like in the US is was made by some non left white dudes

And for that matter, Christianity is not a white religion. It has members all over the world and it has its origins in the Middle East.

Yeah, if i remember some middle eastern nation was the first ever Christian nation, even before rome.

Armenia i think

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Then you are fighting the wrong battles. Secularism is a leftist invention and anti-white

And Washington smokes weed and wear rainbow shirt in meetings.

It seems only logical that someone who isn't religious would be ideal for pluralistic governance, since that person won't be biased to any one in particular. Either that, or someone is basically religious in name only.

Me for president 2049!


As for the actual discussion, the most important thing about a religion is its members. With things are looking quite good when we look at the fact that only 3% of people under 24 is an Anglican Christian, while 97% isn't, maybe as the internet and economic growth spreads exponentially the number of agnostics will increase. We, or I don't really know the reality in Arab world, especially on the developed area.

Apparently, money is literally more powerful than God.

The current prediction of world religiousness IIRC only accounts for population growth, as it cannot for obvious reason calculate personal and mental belief. They don't really account closet atheists. And atheistsbare less likely to vote against lgbt rights referendum or something.

[The Grims]

....I dont see how the concept of the church being free from the goverment, and vice versa is in anyway anti white?

like in the US is was made by some non left white dudes

And for that matter, Christianity is not a white religion. It has members all over the world and it has its origins in the Middle East.

If one accepts the theory that white skin is the mark of Cain, Christianity is even anti-white.

[North German Realm]

Most were initiated by local civil authorities, or what passed for them at the time.
Again, heavily theocratic countries were notable for having less witchburning than average.

I just want to point out that culturally and politically secular countries have 100% less witchburning, also known as "no witchburning", than heavily religious countries.

The problem with "No witchburning under secularism" is that ignoring the glaringly obvious exception of the Inquisition nobody expects, "Witchburning" (like all types of lynching), is extrajudicial. It is not done under the authority of the State, but the lackthereof. If a Witchburning happens, its because the State is either incapable of stopping it (which, by definition, means its a failed state) or has no intention of (i.e. it has no reason to want to help the people being lynched, for whatever reason). Either is possible under theocratic or secular governance. Either is still possible under either a secular or religious society. They're not a good litmus test.

[North German Realm]

And for that matter, Christianity is not a white religion. It has members all over the world and it has its origins in the Middle East.

If one accepts the theory that white skin is the mark of Cain, Christianity is even anti-white.

The general consensus is that it wasn't a physical mark as far as I know, but even within groups that argue it was physical, the majority I know of argue "blackness" was the "mark" of Cain, not "whiteness" Which is stupid and hilariously out of tune with how it happened in real life, but that's what you get.

....I dont see how the concept of the church being free from the goverment, and vice versa is in anyway anti white?

like in the US is was made by some non left white dudes

And for that matter, Christianity is not a white religion. It has members all over the world and it has its origins in the Middle East.

You do realize the majority of its members in the New World and in Subsaharan Africa became Christian through a process of colonialism... by European countries, right? Christianity did -probably- rise out of the Middle East (though I personally don't believe that), but the majority of its adherents are either white or are its adherents directly because of policies implemented by Whites in their colonies. Christianity is, and has been for the last few centuries, as close to a "White religion" as any religion can possibly get (other than ancient ethnic religions, I suppose).

[Jolthig]

Yes. Secularism will continue to grow. I agree with everything you said, OP. The statistics are there.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Christianity did -probably- rise out of the Middle East (though I personally don't believe that)

Where was Jesus AS born?

Also did you get that telegram I sent to you?

[The South Falls]

People are continuing to become more secular, as it should be. Inserting religion into everything results in needless conflict.

[New Sukberia]

What will become of secularism? Will it grow, fade, or will the religious demographics of the future be not so different than those of today?

These days, many say that the future of secularism is at risk because religious people tend to procreate more so than secular people. The statistics back this claim up, but it's worth a reminder that religion is not genetic. It does not necessarily "take." If two Asians have a child, the child will always be of Asian descent. But when two Muslims have a child, the child may not become a Muslim, or may abandon the religion at a later time in their life.

I'm an atheist, my parents were Roman Catholic. Most atheists, agnostics, and "nones" I know came from religious families. Just because religious people procreate does not guarantee their success in perpetuating their religion.

How else can secularism spread if not through procreation? I would argue that secularism has an intrinsic allure. That many are attracted to the opportunity to do things their religion forbids. And when it comes to migrants from religious backgrounds living in the West, those who keep entirely to their own groups seem to be fewer in number than those who integrate.

As an American living in Germany, I have encountered many refugees and migrants over the last few years. I noticed quite a lot of people from Muslim backgrounds would eat, drink, and smoke during Ramadan. I've seen a great deal of women from Arab countries that do not wear hijabs at all (obviously not all Arabs are Muslims, some are Christians, Jews, secular, or something other, but the vast majority do come from Muslim families). And though I live in a city with a huge refugee population, I see at most one niqab or burqa for every thousand people I pass on the streets.

I contend that secularism is not in such great danger as some think, that far more migrants in the West integrate than not, that a not insignificant amount of religious people's children will become secular, and that there are more adults that abandon religion than convert from secularism to a religion.

I further contend that secularism is under-reported on surveys because most surveys do not distinguish the religiously devout from the nominally religious. There are many who believe in the existence of God but who have no interest in the rules of the religion they still loosely identify with. These type of people will go to church on Christmas, pray only when their loved one gets cancer, either doesn't believe in hell or thinks only people like Ted Bundy and Hitler go to hell, and that you'll go to heaven as long as you're good. Are these people not functionally secular already? I would say they are, that their beliefs are more of a cultural vestige than actual religion. So with that in mind, secularism's numbers are looking strong.

So what do you think about the future of secularism? And what do you want to happen?

In this age of Modernism and Liberal thought I believe Secularism will likely increase. As a Traditionalist and Pagan(Norse Pagan) this is unfortunate in my view and should be prevented if possible. I believe govements should have religious protection laws, in order to protect and preserve religions.

Preserve the Giant wolf from eating us or the huge snake from breaking the oceans!

#Make Valhala Great Again

[Aglanen]

You do realize the majority of its members in the New World and in Subsaharan Africa became Christian through a process of colonialism... by European countries, right? Christianity did -probably- rise out of the Middle East (though I personally don't believe that), but the majority of its adherents are either white or are its adherents directly because of policies implemented by Whites in their colonies. Christianity is, and has been for the last few centuries, as close to a "White religion" as any religion can possibly get (other than ancient ethnic religions, I suppose).

Majority of white people were also converted through a similar process. By the Roman Empire, it’s sucessors, and holy orders like the Teutonics. But none of that is really relevant to nowadays. These non-Europeans countries have long been independent of their empires and tend to be even more devout Christians most white people. That’s just a fact of the matter.

[North German Realm]

Christianity did -probably- rise out of the Middle East (though I personally don't believe that)

Where was Jesus AS born?

Also did you get that telegram I sent to you?

That's irrelevant to where "Christianity" rose out of though. (And yes. I received it. I haven't read it, as I have just managed to log into my pc after roughly 12 hours of """education""")

[Aglanen]

Also, Jesus was Semitic. And while Christianity appropriates it’s mythology, practices, and dogma from a number of sources, it’s primarily from Judaism.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Where was Jesus AS born?

Also did you get that telegram I sent to you?

That's irrelevant to where "Christianity" rose out of though. (And yes. I received it. I haven't read it, as I have just managed to log into my pc after roughly 12 hours of """education""")

It definitely rose out of the Middle East
It spread because of Rome

[The Grims]

If one accepts the theory that white skin is the mark of Cain, Christianity is even anti-white.

The general consensus is that it wasn't a physical mark as far as I know, but even within groups that argue it was physical, the majority I know of argue "blackness" was the "mark" of Cain, not "whiteness" Which is stupid and hilariously out of tune with how it happened in real life, but that's what you get.
.

Them not realising that black is the original color of humanities skin is indeed ironic - but does not invalidate the idea.
And whites have been rather sinful, so that fits.

[North German Realm]

That's irrelevant to where "Christianity" rose out of though. (And yes. I received it. I haven't read it, as I have just managed to log into my pc after roughly 12 hours of """education""")

It definitely rose out of the Middle East
It spread because of Rome

And that's where I have to disagree with you. Christianity as we know it (Particularly, the mechanisms of the Catholic Church which, arguably, everything span off from) is probably completely different than the reformed Judaic tradition that a bunch of rebellious Rabbis made up in Judea when one of them, under the assumption he was the Lord reborn, pulled a whip and went to clear the house of the Lord from money lenders.

[Liberated Communist States]

In this age of Modernism and Liberal thought I believe Secularism will likely increase. As a Traditionalist and Pagan(Norse Pagan) this is unfortunate in my view and should be prevented if possible. I believe govements should have religious protection laws, in order to protect and preserve religions.

Preserve the Giant wolf from eating us or the huge snake from breaking the oceans!

#Make Valhala Great Again

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

[Aglanen]

... And then proceed to worship the god who (sometimes) encourages both.

Everything that God does is right.

If your god can’t follow his own laws, how do you expect anyone else to?

[Neanderthaland]

Preserve the Giant wolf from eating us or the huge snake from breaking the oceans!

#Make Valhala Great Again

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

[Liberated Communist States]

Why are you bashing my religion? What did I do to you?

A Viking playing the victim card is a little bit of a hard-sell, imo.

Yes Norse Pagans raided other peoples. But we were primarily farmers and traders. We suffered far more at the hands of Christians and those who believed we were 'barbarians'. Do I condone everything we've done in the past? No, and I think we should leave the mistakes we made in the past, and try to make some progress. However seeing as we still are being persecuted for our beliefs, that may be difficult.