ISIS bride stripped of citizenship, banned from the UK

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I don't have a responsibility to anything. I've committed no evil. I've never hurt anyone in my life. The worst thing I've done is shitpost on the internet. Yes, it is emotional. Its emotional because I don't want to be associated with her in any way, shape or form. This group mentality of yours doesn't really suit me, and so I reject it.

We all have a responsibility, as parts of our communities, when it comes to what happens in that community. Since we are all of the same species, and we live in a highly interconnected world where everything we do can have ramifications that span continents and oceans... yeah, we do have a responsibility.

We can't just point the finger at terrorists, scream "Monsters!", burn them at the stake and call it a day. At most, you'll have killed a few people who did a horrible things, but you won't have addressed the underlying causes behind their actions, the history that built up to them, the policies that made them possible and even inevitable.

Ok now I think you're going a little to far. People who join terrorist groups, that's their own fault, not ours.

[The South Falls]

She did what she did. She should face the consequences. She betrayed her country, and there are consequences for that sort of thing.

[Fartsniffage]

We all have a responsibility, as parts of our communities, when it comes to what happens in that community. Since we are all of the same species, and we live in a highly interconnected world where everything we do can have ramifications that span continents and oceans... yeah, we do have a responsibility.

We can't just point the finger at terrorists, scream "Monsters!", burn them at the stake and call it a day. At most, you'll have killed a few people who did a horrible things, but you won't have addressed the underlying causes behind their actions, the history that built up to them, the policies that made them possible and even inevitable.

Underlying cause? She's self-radicalized. The cause and the responsibility are hers and hers alone.

Nuance is a thing that happens to other people for you isn't it?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

She betrayed her country

That in itself isn't always a bad thing.

[Yusseria]

Underlying cause? She's self-radicalized. The cause and the responsibility are hers and hers alone.

Nuance is a thing that happens to other people for you isn't it?

There is no nuance here. The simple fact of the matter is that she is the only one who bears responsibility for this.

[The South Falls]

She betrayed her country

That in itself isn't always a bad thing.

Though, I don't see any conditions in the UK requiring such drastic action.

[Fartsniffage]

Nuance is a thing that happens to other people for you isn't it?

There is no nuance here. The simple fact of the matter is that she is the only one who bears responsibility for this.

Why did ISIS happen in the first place?

[Nimzonia]

Why are people even getting so worked up over one rather dim-witted woman whose only achievement in life is to give birth three times before the age of 20? Do people think this daft little girl is going to come back here and mastermind a new reign of terror? She obviously doesn't have enough brains to fill an egg cup. The hysteria over this is pathetic.

[Novus America]

She did what she did. She should face the consequences. She betrayed her country, and there are consequences for that sort of thing.

Agreed. And it is quite clear she has zero loyalty to the UK, so why should the UK want her?

Being she lost her citizenship she lost any right to enter the UK.

[Liriena]

We all have a responsibility, as parts of our communities, when it comes to what happens in that community. Since we are all of the same species, and we live in a highly interconnected world where everything we do can have ramifications that span continents and oceans... yeah, we do have a responsibility.

We can't just point the finger at terrorists, scream "Monsters!", burn them at the stake and call it a day. At most, you'll have killed a few people who did a horrible things, but you won't have addressed the underlying causes behind their actions, the history that built up to them, the policies that made them possible and even inevitable.

Ok now I think you're going a little to far. People who join terrorist groups, that's their own fault, not ours.

Yes and no. We all have free will, but we are also conditioned by everything around us.

[Fartsniffage]

She did what she did. She should face the consequences. She betrayed her country, and there are consequences for that sort of thing.

Agreed. And it is quite clear she has zero loyalty to the UK, so why should the UK want her?

Being she lost her citizenship she lost any right to enter the UK.

She hasn't lost it yet.

[Ostroeuropa]

She's a terrorist sympathizer who's pretty open about her lack or remorse. I'd say "subhuman" is a pretty apt description here.

Nope. There's no such thing as a "subhuman" person. Y'all are gonna have to learn to cope with the fact that people who are just as human as you can do terrible things.

It's a political category and always has been.

Nah. Sorry, you don't really get to dictate such things.

Yeah, I do, because I'm actually being factual, rather than reacting with immature, cowardly denial.

This woman is human. Her beliefs and actions were human. Humans have been saying and doing similar things for millennia. And like those before her, nothing she does will ever make her of a different species or deprive her of her personhood. She's a human being. A horrible, deluded human being, but a human being still.

Calling her "subhuman" is just a lazy, cowardly copout to avoid confronting the reality that it is not something essential, nothing innate, that separates her from you. Just her choices.

That's largely the point. It's a political category of denial of personhood.

It's considered a dangerous form of political tool, especially for states to engage in, but it doesn't make it "wrong" in a factual sense to designate someone subhuman.

There's a separate debate to be had on whether individual de-personhood is as dangerous, i'm inclined to say it probably is given that it signals a kind of total disregard for the persons human rights and if a majority of people do it, or even just a critical mass, then the state can effectively break the law that restricts them from doing the same without consequences.

It's not to say she isn't a member of our species, just no longer a social member of it, which potentially carries legal ramifications if enough people feel that way.

She has essentially been "Unpersoned" to a lesser degree with the stripping of citizenship. It is the closest we can get to excluding her from the category of "person".

[The South Falls]

She did what she did. She should face the consequences. She betrayed her country, and there are consequences for that sort of thing.

Agreed. And it is quite clear she has zero loyalty to the UK, so why should the UK want her?

Being she lost her citizenship she lost any right to enter the UK.

I mean, she is a terrorist. Though, could you argue she fell under the case of Stockholm syndrome, that she was brainwashed?

[Novus America]

Why are people even getting so worked up over one rather dim-witted woman whose only achievement in life is to give birth three times before the age of 20? Do people think this daft little girl is going to come back here and mastermind a new reign of terror? She obviously doesn't have enough brains to fill an egg cup. The hysteria over this is pathetic.

She is not going to mastermind anything.
But she is the perfect tool for a smarter terrorist to use.
And why let her into the UK? Given it is apparently legal to prohibit her from going back, and she has no value to the UK, why let her in?

Even if the threat she (on her own) poses is low, still from a cost benefit analysis her lack of any redeeming value to the UK means there is nothing to offset even the smallest risk.

[Yusseria]

There is no nuance here. The simple fact of the matter is that she is the only one who bears responsibility for this.

Why did ISIS happen in the first place?

We aren't talking about ISIS as a whole. We're talking about her. She's self-radicalized and still expresses no remorse. She did this to herself.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Agreed. And it is quite clear she has zero loyalty to the UK, so why should the UK want her?

Being she lost her citizenship she lost any right to enter the UK.

I mean, she is a terrorist. Though, could you argue she fell under the case of Stockholm syndrome, that she was brainwashed?

I hope this is the case. Though she's still accountable for her crimes if she committed any either way.

[Fartsniffage]

Why did ISIS happen in the first place?

We aren't talking about ISIS as a whole. We're talking about her. She's self-radicalized and still expresses no remorse. She did this to herself.

And this is why I say you don't understand nuance.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is no nuance here. The simple fact of the matter is that she is the only one who bears responsibility for this.

Why did ISIS happen in the first place?

Because we refused to cooperate with fascists mate.

Religious zealots tend not to be any good at war these days.

Our determination not to cooperate with the Baathists meant they took over as officers of this group of people who were previously screaming out their gods name and running head first into machine gun turrets while counting on Mohammed to protect them.

[Toaslandia]

Well, she was a jihadi, so good on the U.K. I guess.

[The New California Republic]

Along with revoking her citizenship the British Government should damnatio memoriae the fuck out of her. Birth certificate? Gone! Medical records? Gone! School grades? Gone! National Insurance? Gone! Name on the census from previous years? Gone!

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Well, she was a jihadi

No she wasn't.

[The South Falls]

I mean, she is a terrorist. Though, could you argue she fell under the case of Stockholm syndrome, that she was brainwashed?

I hope this is the case. Though she's still accountable for her crimes if she committed any either way.

That is true. She did go there under her own free will though.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Along with revoking her citizenship the British Government should damnatio memoriae the fuck out of her. Birth certificate? Gone! Medical records? Gone! School grades? Gone! National Insurance? Gone! Name on the census from previous years? Gone!

Why?

[Novus America]

Agreed. And it is quite clear she has zero loyalty to the UK, so why should the UK want her?

Being she lost her citizenship she lost any right to enter the UK.

She hasn't lost it yet.

“had her British citizenship revoked by the Home Office.”
It says she has, if she successfully appeals and gets it reinstated, let her back but charge her with treason.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well, she was a jihadi

No she wasn't.

According to you she wasn't. She thinks differently.