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ISIS bride stripped of citizenship, banned from the UK

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should she be allowed to return to the UK?

Yes
30
9%
No
239
73%
Exile her to Ireland
57
17%
 
Total votes : 326

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Trumptonium1
Senator
 
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Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:32 am

Vassenor wrote:Also it seems the takeaway here is that conservatives apparently only care about child grooming when the victims are white girls.


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Draconikus
Envoy
 
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Founded: May 29, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Draconikus » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:41 am

I don't think this was the best idea.
As I understand it, this was done on the claim that she is entitled to (but has not claimed) Bangladeshi citizenship. Given that Bangladesh is now refusing to grant her citizenship, it appears the British government has, in fact, rendered her stateless, given they took away the citizenship she actually had.
That is something the British government is bound by international law not to do. However, reversing the decision, or having it overturned, would be highly embarrassing, whilst ignoring international law sets a precedent that could damage Britain's ability to deport foreign criminals.
Naturally, the best solution would have been to reform the justice system so prison is an actual punishment, and welcome her back with two police officers and an arrest warrant. But the government has shown that it is not willing to do that.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:48 am

Gravlen wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Well, the order was placed, according to the article cited in the OP. She has a right to appeal, as per same cited article but it seems as if, in regards to the UK, this is already done. Hence why I asked. The info seems to make it a done deal. If it isn't, I concede to your judgement as I am not a UK citizen nor do I know much about UK jurisprudence to say much.

An order has been placed, as you say, but the possibility to appeal the order has not been exhausted. An appeal against the decision to make an order for deprivation can be made to the First-Tier Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber). Onward appeals are to the Upper Tribunal and Court of Appeal, and finally to the Supreme Court.

If the Secretary of State certifies that the decision was taken wholly or partly in reliance on information which is determined to not be made public in the interest of national security, the UK’s relations with another country or otherwise in the public interest, the right of appeal is to the Special Immigration Appeals Commission instead of the First -Tier Tribunal. The onward appeals are the same.

The legal battle which lies ahead may take some time. In Secretary of State for the Home Department v Al-Jedda the original deprivation order was made 14. December 2007, while the final decision to overturn the deprivation order was made by the Supreme Court on 9. October 2013 - almost six years later.


Thanks for that breakdown. One more question: if she appeals (it seems her family want to appeal this decision too), as it seems she can’t enter the UK (correct me if I’m wrong), will she have to wait for a decision on her status in Syria?
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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:50 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Petrolheadia wrote:The UK has a lot of empty spaces, I'm sure one can build a Guantanamo UK in one of them,


Instead of waterboarding them we'll just put the milk in before their tea.


And the Hague has just issued a warrant for your arrest...

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Sicaris
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Posts: 846
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sicaris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:31 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Instead of waterboarding them we'll just put the milk in before their tea.


And the Hague has just issued a warrant for your arrest...


“Alright Harry old chap, he’s putting milk in before his tea. Send in the SAS.”

“Alrighty Gerald, I’ll call up the boys. This guy is a monster.”
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:46 am

Belgium1 wrote:Finally seems as the uk finally grew a backbone and is starting to protect its people.

Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.
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Loben
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Founded: Sep 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Loben » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:49 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Belgium1 wrote:Finally seems as the uk finally grew a backbone and is starting to protect its people.

Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.


then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:50 am

Loben wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.


then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.

And she's still a British citizen.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:50 am

Loben wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.


then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.


After being groomed online and stuff.
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Sicaris
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Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sicaris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:59 am

Ifreann wrote:
Loben wrote:
then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.

And she's still a British citizen.


And she also joined a terrorist group known for religious extremism and committing atrocities everywhere they go, that is responsible for the deaths of thousands.
This country doesn’t represent my political views.
Three Principles of the People is a good book.
8values
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I’m an American nationalist, ultra-capitalist, Kemalist, and First and Second Amendment extremist. Alexander Hamilton and Ronald Reagan are my gods and I will incessantly worship them.

No, basement dwellers of the world, communism does not work.

“If you are born poor, it’s not your mistake; but if you die poor, it’s your mistake.”

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:01 am

Loben wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.


then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.

Sicaris wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And she's still a British citizen.


And she also joined a terrorist group known for religious extremism and committing atrocities everywhere they go, that is responsible for the deaths of thousands.

That makes her less British how?
Vassenor wrote:
Loben wrote:
then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.


After being groomed online and stuff.

You say that like she was forced there. She did all this on her own fee will.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:02 am

Sicaris wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And she's still a British citizen.


And she also joined a terrorist group known for religious extremism and committing atrocities everywhere they go, that is responsible for the deaths of thousands.

And she's still a British citizen.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Sicaris
Diplomat
 
Posts: 846
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sicaris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:05 am

Ifreann wrote:
Sicaris wrote:
And she also joined a terrorist group known for religious extremism and committing atrocities everywhere they go, that is responsible for the deaths of thousands.

And she's still a British citizen.


So she should be allowed back in, I presume you mean?
This country doesn’t represent my political views.
Three Principles of the People is a good book.
8values
Political Compass
PolitiScales
I’m an American nationalist, ultra-capitalist, Kemalist, and First and Second Amendment extremist. Alexander Hamilton and Ronald Reagan are my gods and I will incessantly worship them.

No, basement dwellers of the world, communism does not work.

“If you are born poor, it’s not your mistake; but if you die poor, it’s your mistake.”

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:08 am

Sicaris wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And she's still a British citizen.


So she should be allowed back in, I presume you mean?

So she is "their own people".
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Belgium1 wrote:Finally seems as the uk finally grew a backbone and is starting to protect its people.

Begum is their own people, she is/was a UK citizen.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:55 am

Vassenor wrote:
Loben wrote:
then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.


After being groomed online and stuff.


Do you have any evidence of that?
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 am

Vassenor wrote:
Loben wrote:
then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.


After being groomed online and stuff.


If some text on a screen can convince you to go join a group publicly committing literal genocide you're probably a shit person to begin with
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 68113
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:00 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Loben wrote:
then she decided to join ISIS and presumably whore around various encampments for them.

Sicaris wrote:
And she also joined a terrorist group known for religious extremism and committing atrocities everywhere they go, that is responsible for the deaths of thousands.

That makes her less British how?
Vassenor wrote:
After being groomed online and stuff.

You say that like she was forced there. She did all this on her own fee will.


Actually she was trafficked and forced into a marriage she was too young to consent to. Try again.
Last edited by Vassenor on Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

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Trumptonium1
Senator
 
Posts: 4022
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:03 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
After being groomed online and stuff.


If some text on a screen can convince you to go join a group publicly committing literal genocide you're probably a shit person to begin with


But she was only FIFTEEN

It's not like she wore a MAGA hat and went to Catholic school, dude. She was a kid. A Muslim kid no less.
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Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9309
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:06 am

Vassenor wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
That makes her less British how?

You say that like she was forced there. She did all this on her own fee will.


Actually she was trafficked and forced into a marriage she was too young to consent to. Try again.


Again, do you have any proof to back up these statements? Because I haven’t seen anyone else making such claims, something you think the family would use.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Trumptonium1
Senator
 
Posts: 4022
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:10 am

Vassenor wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
That makes her less British how?

You say that like she was forced there. She did all this on her own fee will.


Actually she was trafficked and forced into a marriage she was too young to consent to. Try again.


Vass I know you are trying very hard day in day out to impersonate a meme of yourself but to imply that this cancerous twat who traveled to Turkey with her two friends on a PUBLIC plane voluntarily out of their own homes without a fourth "guardian/trafficker" is a new low, even for you.

Which is not something I thought you could achieve.

Image

Look. Trafficked. LUL

I suppose "trafficking" is a new word to be added to the 'increasingly meaningless' list, along with far-right, racism, sexism and fascism. Only the actual trafficked people are losing out here, but hey, apparently you don't really care about them.
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:05 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
After being groomed online and stuff.


If some text on a screen can convince you to go join a group publicly committing literal genocide you're probably a shit person to begin with

Yeah, it's stupid for people to be influenced by ideas communicated through the written word. Books aren't important. Why did we even invent the printing press?
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Sicaris
Diplomat
 
Posts: 846
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sicaris » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:07 am

Vassenor wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
That makes her less British how?

You say that like she was forced there. She did all this on her own fee will.


Actually she was trafficked and forced into a marriage she was too young to consent to. Try again.


You have to be memeing at this point. Come on.
This country doesn’t represent my political views.
Three Principles of the People is a good book.
8values
Political Compass
PolitiScales
I’m an American nationalist, ultra-capitalist, Kemalist, and First and Second Amendment extremist. Alexander Hamilton and Ronald Reagan are my gods and I will incessantly worship them.

No, basement dwellers of the world, communism does not work.

“If you are born poor, it’s not your mistake; but if you die poor, it’s your mistake.”

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:12 am

Ifreann wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
If some text on a screen can convince you to go join a group publicly committing literal genocide you're probably a shit person to begin with

Yeah, it's stupid for people to be influenced by ideas communicated through the written word.


When the ideas in question are literal genocide and other such fun things yeah it's pretty fucking dumb.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:31 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yeah, it's stupid for people to be influenced by ideas communicated through the written word.


When the ideas in question are literal genocide and other such fun things yeah it's pretty fucking dumb.

Then the fact that the ideas were conveyed through text on a screen is irrelevant, isn't it?

It just bugs me when people dismiss something as just text on a screen or ink on paper, as if words cease to matter when you write them down.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

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Vojelneit
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Nov 28, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vojelneit » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:35 am

Completely normal. Although too light of a punishment in my opinion. We're talking about someone that has left the UK to join the ranks, openly support and live amongst a terrorist group which is in a direct state of war with the UK and many other countries, which advocates for the unlawful executions of innocents and which has committed terror attacks against civilians all over the world.

This girl was only British on the papers to begin with because when you truly and sincerely want to be a citizen of a certain country, you don't associate yourself with an organisation that calls for its destruction.

No pity for traitors.
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