ISIS bride stripped of citizenship, banned from the UK

[Astoriya]

And that is why they must let in ISIS sympathizers and brides back in.

Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

That isn't the point of contention - what the point is is that she went to join ISIS of her own free will - and shows zero remorse for doing so

Well, you could always try and solve the root of the problem of radicalisation.

We’ve already figured out why people went. We don’t need her to do that

Addendum - in their own countries, eg. the UK, etc., so that we can help to prevent more incidents like this from happening

eh

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Let's see what Assad's regime has in store for her.

A foreign national involved in crime? Most likely deportation. To Bangladesh in this case.

The Syrian government executed an American, so they will probably execute her if they had the chance to.

[Ifreann]

So what? That's not a crime. She's not hurting anyone by being married to an ISIS fighter.

Say there was a Nazi insurrection in Germany, whole place is war torn, and not only is their a Nazis insurrection fighting the government but they’re also killing and enslaving tens of thousands of people that they see as inferior to them. Now say some woman flees Britain and marries an SS or something, if her own free will. Now say the Nazis has been crushed by the various forces they went up against. Would this woman, who of her own free will decided to support a movement that’s slaughtered and enslaved thousands of people, truly be considere to have “not hurt anyone” and to have committed not crime? Because Daesh is a fucking theocratic murderous war machine that has comitted many crimes against humanity, and I don’t see how one can support it and “not hurt anyone”.

We don't have to imagine "What if Nazis?" There was a Nazi party, they did wage war on Europe, and they did commit crimes rather more serious than what ISIS has been getting up to. Can you demonstrate that having the child of a Nazi was considered active participation in the Nazi war machine? Can you show me historical record of the wives of Nazi soldiers being rounded up and put in front of firing squads? Can you show me historical record of the wives of Nazi soldiers losing their citizenships?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

And that is why they must let in ISIS sympathizers and brides back in.

Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

I wouldn't call it aiding, but it demonstrates ISIS sympathy, and that is not something that a rational person would want in his or her country. She traveling that journey demonstrates that devotion. She made her choice, and she should not be crying back home because her side lost. She deserves no sympathy.

[Thermodolia]

Let's see what Assad's regime has in store for her.

A foreign national involved in crime? Most likely deportation. To Bangladesh in this case.

Is that before or after Assad has her executed?

[Astoriya]

A foreign national involved in crime? Most likely deportation. To Bangladesh in this case.

The Syrian government executed an American, so they will probably execute her if they had the chance to.

Or at the very least give her a life sentence in order to avoid damaging relations (but with Syria, that's very unlikely)

[Novus America]

Giving birth to a child sired by one of em does sound like aiding their cause.

Oh yeah, those babies were vital to ISIS's evil plans.

Umm, Actually, they were.
They were to be the next generation of ISIS, to continue the fight.

[Risottia]

Seriously dude you’ve never heard of the age of consent of 14? Or the fact that 16 year olds can vote in Austria? Or that teens can legally drink alcohol in many European nations?.

We treat minors as adults on several occasions

In Europe one can be a teen and an adult, as you come of age at 18.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Just give the middle east back to Greece tbh

is joke

[Thermodolia]

The Syrian government executed an American, so they will probably execute her if they had the chance to.

Or at the very least give her a life sentence in order to avoid damaging relations (but with Syria, that's very unlikely)

I don’t think anyone is going to pitch a fit over Syria executing a terrorist

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Oh yeah, those babies were vital to ISIS's evil plans.

Umm, Actually, they were.
They were to be the next generation of ISIS, to continue the fight.

This ^^

[Thermodolia]

Seriously dude you’ve never heard of the age of consent of 14? Or the fact that 16 year olds can vote in Austria? Or that teens can legally drink alcohol in many European nations?.

We treat minors as adults on several occasions

In Europe one can be a teen and an adult, as you come of age at 18.

Thank you captain pedantic

[Risottia]

A foreign national involved in crime? Most likely deportation. To Bangladesh in this case.

Is that before or after Assad has her executed?

Do you think Assad would be so stupid to give his international rivals MORE propaganda fuel by killing her? He'll just get rid of her by sending her to Bangladesh.

[Astoriya]

Just give the middle east back to Greece tbh

is joke

Arab countries: 'of al-no, make do the go away!'

joke contributing

[Risottia]

In Europe one can be a teen and an adult, as you come of age at 18.

Thank you captain pedantic

You're welcome, Lieutenant Inaccurate.

[Novus America]

Oh yeah, those babies were vital to ISIS's evil plans.

What - making little soldiers to fight the great holy war?
Now that's something I wouldn't put past them

Actually making little soldiers to fight the great holy war was explicitly the plan.
They did not deny it. They openly acknowledged it.

[Thermodolia]

Is that before or after Assad has her executed?

Do you think Assad would be so stupid to give his international rivals MORE propaganda fuel by killing her? He'll just get rid of her by sending her to Bangladesh.

How exactly would that give anyone more propaganda fuel. The British government isn’t going to raise cain over it. The US won’t either.

The vast majority of the world isn’t going to care if a terrorist gets the bullet in Syria

[Novus America]

Is that before or after Assad has her executed?

Do you think Assad would be so stupid to give his international rivals MORE propaganda fuel by killing her? He'll just get rid of her by sending her to Bangladesh.

He has done stuff like it before. He obviously does not care what anyone thinks except Russia and Iran. And obviously they would not care.

[Astoriya]

What - making little soldiers to fight the great holy war?
Now that's something I wouldn't put past them

Actually making little soldiers to fight the great holy war was explicitly the plan.
They did not deny it. They openly acknowledged it.

It was a joke
But yeah

[Novus America]

Actually she was hurting people by aiding and abetting, and knowingly joining a terrorist group.
Being married to a terrorist is not necessarily always a crime, and neither is leaving your country.
Leaving your country to wage war against your country and joining a designated terror group are crimes however.

There are certainly grounds for charging her with a litany of crimes.

How did she aid and abet ISIS? There doesn't seem to be any suspicion that she actually did any terrorism. She just married an ISIS fighter and was a housewife and had some children. I don't know if you could even necessarily say that she joined ISIS.

No, she did not just marry a guy who happened to be part of ISIS. She went to Syria with the purpose of joining ISIS, to be used by them as they saw fit.

There is a difference between marrying someone who happens to be a be a member of a group, vs joining a group and THEN being used by them as a wife.

[Alvecia]

Umm, Actually, they were.
They were to be the next generation of ISIS, to continue the fight.

This ^^

Out of curiosity has there been rebel groups that have lasted long enough to have their offspring join the cause, historically?
The IRA maybe?

[Thermodolia]

This ^^

Out of curiosity has there been rebel groups that have lasted long enough to have their offspring join the cause, historically?
The IRA maybe?

The IRA, Veit Cong, several groups in Africa, the PRC (pre 1949).

[Novus America]

This ^^

Out of curiosity has there been rebel groups that have lasted long enough to have their offspring join the cause, historically?
The IRA maybe?

There have been. Especially in South America. FARC in Colombia lasted from 1964 to 2017. Usually a group does not last long enough. But some rebel groups have lasted decades.

[Ifreann]

Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

Let’s see here;

- She ran away at a young age to join the group and assist them

And her assistance, so far as I can see, seems to have been limited to marrying one of them. Big fucking deal.

- She believes in their ideology

So? Is it now a crime to hold certain beliefs? Is she losing the citizenship because of the assumed contents of her mind? There are plenty of people on this forum who express beliefs as bad or worse than the "The Manchester bombings were retaliation" shit Begum has come out with.

- She married one of their soldiers

So? Lots of people are married to criminals. Some people even sought out criminals to marry. That's not a crime.

- She’s had children with this man, this actual human scum who decided to fight for religious war criminals too blinded by extremism to comprehend much else

Pretty fucking dark implications to treating it as a crime to have certain people's children.

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Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

Providing a brain to be brainwashed into eventually commit terrorism isn’t aiding and abetting? At the very least she’s committed child abuse

Having a child that might some day commit a crime is not a crime. If it was then literally all parents would be criminals.

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Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

That isn't the point of contention

That is exactly the point of contention, actually.

- what the point is is that she went to join ISIS of her own free will - and shows zero remorse for doing so

She went to marry an ISIS fighter. Does that really count as joining ISIS? If it does, she can be put on trial for it. In Britain.

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Can you explain to me how having a child with an ISIS fighter constitutes aiding and abetting ISIS?

I wouldn't call it aiding, but it demonstrates ISIS sympathy, and that is not something that a rational person would want in his or her country. She traveling that journey demonstrates that devotion. She made her choice, and she should not be crying back home because her side lost. She deserves no sympathy.

Sympathising with ISIS isn't a crime. How could it possibly be? How can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, the true contents of a person's mind? You are literally proposing thought crime.

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Oh yeah, those babies were vital to ISIS's evil plans.

Umm, Actually, they were.
They were to be the next generation of ISIS, to continue the fight.

And an entire generation of Germans were to be the next generation of the Wehrmacht, the SS, the Kriegsmarine, etc. Weirdly, their mothers weren't all put to death.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I'd be a little more sympathetic if she had unequivocally shown remorse but her initial statements suggested that she remained a believer throughout her time there and that she wasn't particularly put off by seeing people getting limbs and heads lopped off.

Which rather gives the impression she only wants to come back for opportunist reasons relating to standard of living. If you're not turned by seeing the brutal ideology being practised I'm not sure how certain you can be that someone's really been convinced by a deradicalisation program (they're not magic cure-alls, people can fake compliance).

So you'd need to pay for said program and then lifetime observation of both her and her child (given the risk of radicalisation), when she's already stuck two fingers up at the country and fought against its values. Not sound use of our community's resources, and it introduces a small public risk for no public gain, so it can't represent social justice. So yeah, offer to take the child but not her.