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Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:33 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Only if we assume that "ending private business discrimination for particularly defined traits" is the only use of laws.

The purpose of laws is to improve the physical well-being of the public.


Agreed.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
So why have it at all then?


To eliminate discrimination by publicly funded entities.

and why not private business?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:34 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
To eliminate discrimination by publicly funded entities.

and why not private business?


Because that's wrong.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:35 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:The purpose of laws is to improve the physical well-being of the public.


Agreed.

Therefore, the hypothetical CRA that did not address private discrimination would be a failure a law.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:35 pm

Telconi wrote:
New haven america wrote:You and one other person does not constitute "others."

You need one more person.


Lucky for me I'm not responsible for teaching you to count.

You've really only had 1 other person in this thread who feels as strongly about this as you do. "Others" denotes multiple people are/were involved, when that's not the case.

English is not that hard, do better.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:35 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Agreed.

Therefore, the hypothetical CRA that did not address private discrimination would be a failure a law.


Why?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:36 pm

New haven america wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Lucky for me I'm not responsible for teaching you to count.

You've really only had 1 other person in this thread who feels as strongly about this as you do. "Others" denotes multiple people are/were involved, when that's not the case.

English is not that hard, do better.


I never specified some arbitrary magnitude of agreement. And yet you've managed to fabricate one. English isnt that hard, as long as you can separate written word from delusion.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:37 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and why not private business?


Because that's wrong.

Why is wrong and what is a publicity funded entity?

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:37 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Therefore, the hypothetical CRA that did not address private discrimination would be a failure a law.


Why?

Because the problem was private discrimination first and foremost.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:38 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because that's wrong.

Why is wrong and what is a publicity funded entity?


Because the necessary measures to implement the policy cause more harm than the policy causes benefit.

An entity funded entirely, it in part, by tax money.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why is wrong and what is a publicity funded entity?


Because the necessary measures to implement the policy cause more harm than the policy causes benefit.

An entity funded entirely, it in part, by tax money.


How does it cause more harm?

Give an example

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Telconi wrote:
New haven america wrote:You've really only had 1 other person in this thread who feels as strongly about this as you do. "Others" denotes multiple people are/were involved, when that's not the case.

English is not that hard, do better.


I never specified some arbitrary magnitude of agreement.

Yes you have, or else you wouldn't have add that "Me and others" bit.

But sure, gaslighting will totally get you out of this situation you've boxed yourself into~
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:39 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why is wrong and what is a publicity funded entity?


Because the necessary measures to implement the policy cause more harm than the policy causes benefit.

Oh look, outright falsehoods.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:40 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because the necessary measures to implement the policy cause more harm than the policy causes benefit.

Oh look, outright falsehoods.


Your opinions aren't fact.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:42 pm

New haven america wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I never specified some arbitrary magnitude of agreement.

Yes you have, or else you wouldn't have add that "Me and others" bit.

But sure, gaslighting will totally get you out of this situation you've boxed yourself into~


That doesnt specify a magnitude of agreement, only a binary qualification.

To be literate is not gaslighting the illiterate.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:42 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh look, outright falsehoods.


Your opinions aren't fact.

Ignoring the hypocrisy for a moment, the economic harm caused by the widespread discrimination is tangible and very, very negative. It harms nobody to not allow it.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:44 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Your opinions aren't fact.

Ignoring the hypocrisy for a moment, the economic harm caused by the widespread discrimination is tangible and very, very negative. It harms nobody to not allow it.


Cant ignore what doesnt exist.
It harms every single business owner now deprived of the right to free association.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:45 pm

Telconi wrote:
New haven america wrote:Yes you have, or else you wouldn't have add that "Me and others" bit.

But sure, gaslighting will totally get you out of this situation you've boxed yourself into~


That doesnt specify a magnitude of agreement.

Except when it does, like right now.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:46 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring the hypocrisy for a moment, the economic harm caused by the widespread discrimination is tangible and very, very negative. It harms nobody to not allow it.


Cant ignore what doesnt exist.
It harms every single business owner now deprived of the right to free association.

Rights only exist when guaranteed by a force. The government gives rights, it can take them away.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:46 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring the hypocrisy for a moment, the economic harm caused by the widespread discrimination is tangible and very, very negative. It harms nobody to not allow it.


Cant ignore what doesnt exist.
It harms every single business owner now deprived of the right to free association.

If they own a business that's open to the public, then they don't get to discriminate, and if they want to then tough shit.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Holy Tedalonia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12455
Founded: Nov 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:46 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Because the necessary measures to implement the policy cause more harm than the policy causes benefit.

An entity funded entirely, it in part, by tax money.


How does it cause more harm?

Give an example

Because the only real way to judge if someone is racist is through statistics, sometimes thinking a company or organization is racist.

"I am looking to hire a new employee, I got this white American that is well educated in this field and a promising, and a black american whos overall ok, but not great.

If I hire the white guy, ill likely have a better performing member, but due to a lack of corporate diversity we could have a scandal"

Hows that for a scenario?
Name: Ted
I have hot takes, I like roasting the fuck out of bad takes, and I don't take shit way too seriously.
I M P E R I A LR E P U B L I C

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:47 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring the hypocrisy for a moment, the economic harm caused by the widespread discrimination is tangible and very, very negative. It harms nobody to not allow it.


Cant ignore what doesnt exist.
It harms every single business owner now deprived of the right to free association.

a right of free association does not exist for business and what is an example of a publicity funded entity?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Holy Tedalonia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12455
Founded: Nov 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:50 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Cant ignore what doesnt exist.
It harms every single business owner now deprived of the right to free association.

a right of free association does not exist for business and what is an example of a publicity funded entity?

As does a right to privacy. America tends to have nonexisting rights does it not?
Name: Ted
I have hot takes, I like roasting the fuck out of bad takes, and I don't take shit way too seriously.
I M P E R I A LR E P U B L I C

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:51 pm

Holy Tedalonia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
How does it cause more harm?

Give an example

Because the only real way to judge if someone is racist is through statistics, sometimes thinking a company or organization is racist.

"I am looking to hire a new employee, I got this white American that is well educated in this field and a promising, and a black american whos overall ok, but not great.

If I hire the white guy, ill likely have a better performing member, but due to a lack of corporate diversity we could have a scandal"

Hows that for a scenario?


There is no mandate for a company to have x number of people of y race.

User avatar
Lanorth
Diplomat
 
Posts: 851
Founded: Oct 22, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Lanorth » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:52 pm

I do not know.
Last edited by Lanorth on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
i give up with this signature smh

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