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Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
That's not different.

Apply it only to publicly funded services.

At the time, that wouldn’t have solved anything.


It would have solved exactly what it would have been intended to solve.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:11 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No that isnt what they said. They said that people who want to be bigoted should make their own country where they can be bigots

And how would you change it?


That's not different.

Apply it only to publicly funded services.

How?

That would have changed nothing. You would still have hotels, restaurants and stores any other private business denying service to people. Racism and homophobia is still a thing.

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:12 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:At the time, that wouldn’t have solved anything.


It would have solved exactly what it would have been intended to solve.

Out of curiosity, what do you think it was intended to solve?
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:12 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:well thats what they should have done.

Where did anyone say political action is wrong? Should we not have passed the Civil Rights Act and let the free market sort out everything?


Well Kat seems to think that people who would otherwise engage in political action should instead just go make their own country.

Not in the form it was passed.

No no, she thinks that you should take your bigotry elsewhere, not that you shouldn't partake in political action. (That action should just involve taking your terrible ideals somewhere else)
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That's all folks~

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:21 pm

New haven america wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Well Kat seems to think that people who would otherwise engage in political action should instead just go make their own country.

Not in the form it was passed.

No no, she thinks that you should take your bigotry elsewhere, not that you shouldn't partake in political action. (That action should just involve taking your terrible ideals somewhere else)


So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat dislikes?
Last edited by Telconi on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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New haven america
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Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:23 pm

Telconi wrote:
New haven america wrote:No no, she thinks that you should take your bigotry elsewhere, not that you shouldn't partake in political action. (That action should just involve taking your terrible ideals somewhere else)


So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat the vast majority of the US dislikes?

FTFY
Human of the male variety
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That's all folks~

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:23 pm

Telconi wrote:
New haven america wrote:No no, she thinks that you should take your bigotry elsewhere, not that you shouldn't partake in political action. (That action should just involve taking your terrible ideals somewhere else)


So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat dislikes?


Id like to know what you think the Civil Rights Act was intended to solve?

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:24 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat dislikes?


Id like to know what you think the Civil Rights Act was intended to solve?


Racial discrimination, presumably.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Id like to know what you think the Civil Rights Act was intended to solve?


Racial discrimination, presumably.


and therefore what is wrong with it?

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New haven america
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Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:25 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat dislikes?


Id like to know what you think the Civil Rights Act was intended to solve?

To unfairly persecute those who want to discriminate and tyrannically force ideas they don't agree with on them.
Human of the male variety
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That's all folks~

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:25 pm

New haven america wrote:
Telconi wrote:
So not all political beliefs, just beliefs Kat the vast majority of the US dislikes?

FTFY


A meaningless distinction.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:25 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Racial discrimination, presumably.


and therefore what is wrong with it?


Methodology.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Id like to know what you think the Civil Rights Act was intended to solve?


Racial discrimination, presumably.

And it stopping government discrimination would have stopped private discrimination (which was the majority, mind you), how?
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:26 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
and therefore what is wrong with it?


Methodology.


What is wrong with the methodology?

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Racial discrimination, presumably.

And it stopping government discrimination would have stopped private discrimination (which was the majority, mind you), how?


It wouldn't.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Methodology.


What is wrong with the methodology?


The same thing that myself and others have been expressing this entire thread.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:And it stopping government discrimination would have stopped private discrimination (which was the majority, mind you), how?


It wouldn't.

So it’d be useless.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 76676
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Racial discrimination, presumably.

And it stopping government discrimination would have stopped private discrimination (which was the majority, mind you), how?

Presuming this argument is in good faith is a fool's errand. People who argue against the CRA are typically those who know exactly what would have continued without it - and would prefer that.
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New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43468
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
What is wrong with the methodology?


The same thing that myself and others have been expressing this entire thread.

You and one other person does not constitute "others."

You need one more person.
Last edited by New haven america on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:29 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Kowani wrote:And it stopping government discrimination would have stopped private discrimination (which was the majority, mind you), how?

Presuming this argument is in good faith is a fool's errand. People who argue against the CRA are typically those who know exactly what would have continued without it - and would prefer that.


I dont think you understand what "good faith" means.
Last edited by Telconi on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
It wouldn't.

So it’d be useless.


Only if we assume that "ending private business discrimination for particularly defined traits" is the only use of laws.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:31 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
What is wrong with the methodology?


The same thing that myself and others have been expressing this entire thread.


So why have it at all then?

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:31 pm

New haven america wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The same thing that myself and others have been expressing this entire thread.

You and one other person does not constitute "others."

You need one more person.


Lucky for me I'm not responsible for teaching you to count.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:32 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
The same thing that myself and others have been expressing this entire thread.


So why have it at all then?


To eliminate discrimination by publicly funded entities.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44696
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:32 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:So it’d be useless.


Only if we assume that "ending private business discrimination for particularly defined traits" is the only use of laws.

The purpose of laws is to improve the physical well-being of the public.
Abolitionism in the North has leagued itself with Radical Democracy, and so the Slave Power was forced to ally itself with the Money Power; that is the great fact of the age.




The triumph of the Democracy is essential to the struggle of popular liberty


Currently Rehabilitating: Martin Van Buren, Benjamin Harrison, and Woodrow Wilson
Currently Vilifying: George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and Jimmy Carter

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