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Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:05 am

Estanglia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
It doesnt matter that its not the 50s anymore by your standard Greyhound should have that right.


Yup.

The essential service provided is lodging.


But this lodging is temporary, and I don't know of anyone who depends on hotels to survive.

Why should the hotel be able to drop something like that the weekend of the wedding when guests have traveled a long distance?


Unless, in the agreement, there was a clause preventing either party from withdrawing, because it is their business and their property.

Should the engaged couple have asked is there anyone you dont serve at your hotel? If so why?


They shouldn't have to.


if they shouldn't have too then why does the hotel have the right to tell our gay couple or any other group they are not welcome?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ors Might
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Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
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Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:06 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Yup.



But this lodging is temporary, and I don't know of anyone who depends on hotels to survive.



Unless, in the agreement, there was a clause preventing either party from withdrawing, because it is their business and their property.



They shouldn't have to.


if they shouldn't have too then why does the hotel have the right to tell our gay couple or any other group they are not welcome?

Does the gay couple own the hotel?
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:07 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
if they shouldn't have too then why does the hotel have the right to tell our gay couple or any other group they are not welcome?

Does the gay couple own the hotel?


No and I never said they did

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Ors Might
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Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
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Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Does the gay couple own the hotel?


No and I never said they did

There you go. That’s why the hotel has the right.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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Estanglia
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Posts: 3858
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Estanglia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Yup.



But this lodging is temporary, and I don't know of anyone who depends on hotels to survive.



Unless, in the agreement, there was a clause preventing either party from withdrawing, because it is their business and their property.



They shouldn't have to.


if they shouldn't have too then why does the hotel have the right to tell our gay couple or any other group they are not welcome?


Because it's their business.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

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Galloism
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Posts: 72166
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:10 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:They can also decline to do straight weddings or white weddings. It’d be discrimination. And it should be allowed.


I can't imagine any venue doing something like that.

It happens.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Galloism
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Posts: 72166
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:10 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
I can't imagine any venue doing something like that.

Irrelevant. They’d be within their rights.

Technically, in certain times and places, it's already happened.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Ors Might
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Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:11 am

Galloism wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Irrelevant. They’d be within their rights.

Technically, in certain times and places, it's already happened.

Good for them. Wouldn’t hire’em myself though.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:14 am

Estanglia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
if they shouldn't have too then why does the hotel have the right to tell our gay couple or any other group they are not welcome?


Because it's their business.


Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?

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Estanglia
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Posts: 3858
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Estanglia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:16 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Because it's their business.


Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?


Demand a refund and go to another hotel.

Emotional arguments aren't gonna work.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:17 am

Estanglia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?


Demand a refund and go to another hotel.

Emotional arguments aren't gonna work.


And somehow magically be able to book rooms for all your quests and get all the planning the wedding done at the other hotel in mere hours?

User avatar
Estanglia
Senator
 
Posts: 3858
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Estanglia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:19 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Demand a refund and go to another hotel.

Emotional arguments aren't gonna work.


And somehow magically be able to book rooms for all your quests and get all the planning the wedding done at the other hotel in mere hours?


Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not entitled to their services.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:19 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Demand a refund and go to another hotel.

Emotional arguments aren't gonna work.


And somehow magically be able to book rooms for all your quests and get all the planning the wedding done at the other hotel in mere hours?

Lumen, what would you do if your wedding plans suddenly went awry for, I don’t know, pick a damned reason? People have to deal with that kind of shit all the time.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:22 am

Estanglia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And somehow magically be able to book rooms for all your quests and get all the planning the wedding done at the other hotel in mere hours?


Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not entitled to their services.


Because you rented their space and you booked rooms in advance they dont have the right at the very last minute to say oh sorry we didn't know a gay couple is attending therefore they can't stay here.

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And somehow magically be able to book rooms for all your quests and get all the planning the wedding done at the other hotel in mere hours?

Lumen, what would you do if your wedding plans suddenly went awry for, I don’t know, pick a damned reason? People have to deal with that kind of shit all the time.


This kind of thing shouldn't be one of them

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Telconi
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Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not entitled to their services.


Because you rented their space and you booked rooms in advance they dont have the right at the very last minute to say oh sorry we didn't know a gay couple is attending therefore they can't stay here.

Ors Might wrote:Lumen, what would you do if your wedding plans suddenly went awry for, I don’t know, pick a damned reason? People have to deal with that kind of shit all the time.


This kind of thing shouldn't be one of them


Lots of things shouldn't happen.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not entitled to their services.


Because you rented their space and you booked rooms in advance they dont have the right at the very last minute to say oh sorry we didn't know a gay couple is attending therefore they can't stay here.

Ors Might wrote:Lumen, what would you do if your wedding plans suddenly went awry for, I don’t know, pick a damned reason? People have to deal with that kind of shit all the time.


This kind of thing shouldn't be one of them

Why fucking not? Out of all the asshole reasons one could have to screw a person over, whether it be incompetence or apathy, what makes these things so special as to not be among them?
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

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Galloism
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Posts: 72166
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:28 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Because it's their business.


Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?

What if they were all attending a KKK religious revival? Should the hotel have the right to refuse them at the last minute because they don't want a bunch of KKK staying at their hotel?

They've already bought the giant cross, buckets of pitch (Is that how you buy pitch? in buckets? i've never done it.), and the giant tent.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?

What if they were all attending a KKK religious revival? Should the hotel have the right to refuse them at the last minute because they don't want a bunch of KKK staying at their hotel?

They've already bought the giant cross, buckets of pitch (Is that how you buy pitch? in buckets? i've never done it.), and the giant tent.

Might be more effective to carry it in gallon gas tanks.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?

What if they were all attending a KKK religious revival? Should the hotel have the right to refuse them at the last minute because they don't want a bunch of KKK staying at their hotel?

They've already bought the giant cross, buckets of pitch (Is that how you buy pitch? in buckets? i've never done it.), and the giant tent.


Yes, can confirm, have bought pitch.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72166
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:30 am

Ors Might wrote:
Galloism wrote:What if they were all attending a KKK religious revival? Should the hotel have the right to refuse them at the last minute because they don't want a bunch of KKK staying at their hotel?

They've already bought the giant cross, buckets of pitch (Is that how you buy pitch? in buckets? i've never done it.), and the giant tent.

Might be more effective to carry it in gallon gas tanks.

You know, this is how I wind up being a fountain of knowledge.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:30 am

Galloism wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Might be more effective to carry it in gallon gas tanks.

You know, this is how I wind up being a fountain of knowledge.

The internet is one of the realms of Hermaeous Mora, change my mind.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
Estanglia
Senator
 
Posts: 3858
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Estanglia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:37 am

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not entitled to their services.


Because you rented their space and you booked rooms in advance they dont have the right at the very last minute to say oh sorry we didn't know a gay couple is attending therefore they can't stay here.


And unless, in the contract, there was a clause preventing the termination of the contract, they are within their rights to end that contract.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality
Meh: Labour, the EU
Nah: pointless discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit, Trump, both American parties, the Conservatives
I flop between "optimistic about the future" and "pessimistic about the future" every time I go on NSG.

(Taken 29/08/2020)
Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.05

8values thinks I'm a Libertarian Socialist.

Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81228
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:27 pm

Estanglia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Because you rented their space and you booked rooms in advance they dont have the right at the very last minute to say oh sorry we didn't know a gay couple is attending therefore they can't stay here.


And unless, in the contract, there was a clause preventing the termination of the contract, they are within their rights to end that contract.


at the very last minute too? If that is the case why shouldnt anyone hosting an event at a hotel or any other venue have to ask first if they welcome all regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ors Might
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7775
Founded: Nov 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ors Might » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:54 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
And unless, in the contract, there was a clause preventing the termination of the contract, they are within their rights to end that contract.


at the very last minute too? If that is the case why shouldnt anyone hosting an event at a hotel or any other venue have to ask first if they welcome all regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation?

They probably should. You know, because making sure there aren’t any complications housing your guests is a pretty basic part of hosting an event?
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU Best diss track of all time

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 72166
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:57 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
And unless, in the contract, there was a clause preventing the termination of the contract, they are within their rights to end that contract.


at the very last minute too? If that is the case why shouldnt anyone hosting an event at a hotel or any other venue have to ask first if they welcome all regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation?


Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Ok What would you do in the scenario if you were the couple getting married at the hotel?

What if they were all attending a KKK religious revival? Should the hotel have the right to refuse them at the last minute because they don't want a bunch of KKK staying at their hotel?

They've already bought the giant cross, buckets of pitch (Is that how you buy pitch? in buckets? i've never done it.), and the giant tent.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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