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Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:17 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Just like how that minority chose to live in a small town filled with bigots, right?

That is not the same.

It is exactly the same.
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The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket
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Postby The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:If you don't want to shine someone's shoes, you shouldn't be compelled to.

Let us take it further: if prostitution were legal, should prostitutes be allowed to refuse service?


why not?

I dont know. Considering that prostitution is a sexual act I dont think the government could or should compel someone to have intimate relations with someone they dont want too.

What does it being sexual have to do with it?
1 By the morning hours
2 And by the night when it is stillest,
3 Thy Lord hath not forsaken thee nor doth He hate thee,
4 And verily the latter portion will be better for thee than the former,
5 And verily thy Lord will give unto thee so that thou wilt be content.
6 Did He not find thee an orphan and protect (thee) ?
7 Did He not find thee wandering and direct (thee) ?
8 Did He not find thee destitute and enrich (thee) ?
9 Therefor the orphan oppress not,
10 Therefor the beggar drive not away,
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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:18 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:That is not the same.

It is exactly the same.

No not really. a business has a right to chose where they want to be. Open for business means open to all not just some.

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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:21 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:It is exactly the same.

No not really. a business has a right to chose where they want to be. Open for business means open to all not just some.

And why not? Because it hurts your feelings?

Forcing businesses to waste their money and time on customers they don't want is wrong, whether it be forcing them to build somewhere or forcing them to serve someone.
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I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


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Ors Might
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Founded: Nov 01, 2016
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Postby Ors Might » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:22 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:It is exactly the same.

No not really. a business has a right to chose where they want to be. Open for business means open to all not just some.

Irrelevant. A minority that can’t find service in a small town is in the exact same position as someone else that can’t find service in a small town insofar as how much it impacts them.

Your response to the latter is that they should move. Apparently inconveniences only matter if discrimination is the cause.
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:24 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:If you don't want to shine someone's shoes, you shouldn't be compelled to.

Let us take it further: if prostitution were legal, should prostitutes be allowed to refuse service?


why not?

I dont know. Considering that prostitution is a sexual act I dont think the government could or should compel someone to have intimate relations with someone they dont want too.


Because making people do work they dont want is bad.

Why would that business receive an exception?
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-Life
-Limited Government
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ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
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-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:25 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No not really. a business has a right to chose where they want to be. Open for business means open to all not just some.

And why not? Because it hurts your feelings?

Forcing businesses to waste their money and time on customers they don't want is wrong, whether it be forcing them to build somewhere or forcing them to serve someone.


Because no one should be less of a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender. someone who is LGBT in New York should not have less rights in Florida.

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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:And why not? Because it hurts your feelings?

Forcing businesses to waste their money and time on customers they don't want is wrong, whether it be forcing them to build somewhere or forcing them to serve someone.


Because no one should be less of a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender. someone who is LGBT in New York should not have less rights in Florida.

Nobody is taking away their rights. You never had a right to eat at McDonald's.

They are not a right in the same way life and liberty are, you are not entitled to a meal at McDonald's, you are not entitled to a bus ride, you are not entitled to a wedding cake, and you're not entitled to a hotel room.
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:28 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:No not really. a business has a right to chose where they want to be. Open for business means open to all not just some.

Irrelevant. A minority that can’t find service in a small town is in the exact same position as someone else that can’t find service in a small town insofar as how much it impacts them.

Your response to the latter is that they should move. Apparently inconveniences only matter if discrimination is the cause.

You really think its plausible or practical for every chain restaurant or store to have a location in every municipality in the country?

Not having a service is not the same as being refused service.

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:29 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:And why not? Because it hurts your feelings?

Forcing businesses to waste their money and time on customers they don't want is wrong, whether it be forcing them to build somewhere or forcing them to serve someone.


Because no one should be less of a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender. someone who is LGBT in New York should not have less rights in Florida.


Everyone I choose not to associate with is less of a person?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:29 am

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Because no one should be less of a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender. someone who is LGBT in New York should not have less rights in Florida.


Everyone I choose not to associate with is less of a person?

I didn't say that.

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San Lumen
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Posts: 81289
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:30 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Because no one should be less of a person because of their race, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation or gender. someone who is LGBT in New York should not have less rights in Florida.

Nobody is taking away their rights. You never had a right to eat at McDonald's.

They are not a right in the same way life and liberty are, you are not entitled to a meal at McDonald's, you are not entitled to a bus ride, you are not entitled to a wedding cake, and you're not entitled to a hotel room.


African Americans in the South should have just accepted they would never be equal and just moved North?. MLK should have just shut up and moved like the rest of them?

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:31 am

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Everyone I choose not to associate with is less of a person?

I didn't say that.


Well you said no one should be less of a person, and this is evidently a result of someone not associating with them?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Free Arabian Nation
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Founded: May 02, 2018
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Nobody is taking away their rights. You never had a right to eat at McDonald's.

They are not a right in the same way life and liberty are, you are not entitled to a meal at McDonald's, you are not entitled to a bus ride, you are not entitled to a wedding cake, and you're not entitled to a hotel room.


African Americans in the South should have just accepted they would never be equal and just moved North?. MLK should have just shut up and moved like the rest of them?

I mean, he shouldn't have shut up, but he shouldn't have forced the Government's hand in business.

Instead, he should have boycotted these businesses until it becomes their policy to serve all. It's called economics.
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:32 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Nobody is taking away their rights. You never had a right to eat at McDonald's.

They are not a right in the same way life and liberty are, you are not entitled to a meal at McDonald's, you are not entitled to a bus ride, you are not entitled to a wedding cake, and you're not entitled to a hotel room.


African Americans in the South should have just accepted they would never be equal and just moved North?. MLK should have just shut up and moved like the rest of them?


Daily reminder, this is your position towards others.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:34 am

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I didn't say that.


Well you said no one should be less of a person, and this is evidently a result of someone not associating with them?

who you have relationships with is not the same thing as a business transaction.
Free Arabian Nation wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
African Americans in the South should have just accepted they would never be equal and just moved North?. MLK should have just shut up and moved like the rest of them?

I mean, he shouldn't have shut up, but he shouldn't have forced the Government's hand in business.

Instead, he should have boycotted these businesses until it becomes their policy to serve all. It's called economics.


That was never going to happen in Alabama or Mississippi.
Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
African Americans in the South should have just accepted they would never be equal and just moved North?. MLK should have just shut up and moved like the rest of them?


Daily reminder, this is your position towards others.

No it isnt

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Free Arabian Nation
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Founded: May 02, 2018
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:35 am

San Lumen wrote:That was never going to happen in Alabama or Mississippi.

So be it, don't give money to racists and let them starve.
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:36 am

San Lumen wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Well you said no one should be less of a person, and this is evidently a result of someone not associating with them?

who you have relationships with is not the same thing as a business transaction.
Free Arabian Nation wrote:I mean, he shouldn't have shut up, but he shouldn't have forced the Government's hand in business.

Instead, he should have boycotted these businesses until it becomes their policy to serve all. It's called economics.


That was never going to happen in Alabama or Mississippi.
Telconi wrote:
Daily reminder, this is your position towards others.

No it isnt


Business relationships are relationships, you can tell because it says "relationship"

San Lumen wrote:Go move to Mogadishu then.


Yes it is, you have stated this on more than one occasion.
Last edited by Telconi on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Athonuna
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Posts: 165
Founded: Apr 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Athonuna » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:39 am

San Lumen wrote:
The Man Who Shot Jiminy Cricket wrote:If you don't want to shine someone's shoes, you shouldn't be compelled to.

Let us take it further: if prostitution were legal, should prostitutes be allowed to refuse service?


why not?

I dont know. Considering that prostitution is a sexual act I dont think the government could or should compel someone to have intimate relations with someone they dont want too.

What makes that business different from any other business? At its most basic level, it's a trade for something, however disgusting or horrible that is. It's your money for a service, and if you've taken the time to build up your service, you should have the right to refuse that service just because you don't like someone because it's your service and you don't owe any of your work to anyone.
Current Accidental policies (Thanks, Pacomia): Corporal Punishment, Prudism, Child Labor (sort of)
Meme summarizing Athonuna, courtesy of Maori Moon
I'M A BIOLOGICAL MALE THAT DOES NOT THINK THAT HE'S A WOMAN!
NOR AM I KAZAKH ARGENTINA (You know who you are)
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE!
That is all.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:39 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
San Lumen wrote:That was never going to happen in Alabama or Mississippi.

So be it, don't give money to racists and let them starve.


And nothing would have changed in many business in those places. The bus boycott in Montgomery forced change because the overwhelming majority of riders were black. A court also ruled segregated buses were unconstitutional

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Free Arabian Nation
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Founded: May 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:41 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:So be it, don't give money to racists and let them starve.


And nothing would have changed in many business in those places. The bus boycott in Montgomery forced change because the overwhelming majority of riders were black.

You just accidentally proved my point, don't give money to racists and they will either starve or surrender.
العرب الأحرار
I don't use NS Stats, for they are against the will of Liberty and God.

News
Open to TGs


User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:41 am

San Lumen wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:So be it, don't give money to racists and let them starve.


And nothing would have changed in many business in those places. The bus boycott in Montgomery forced change because the overwhelming majority of riders were black. A court also ruled segregated buses were unconstitutional


So let me get this straight, nothing would have changed, but the bus boycott was effective?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:41 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
And nothing would have changed in many business in those places. The bus boycott in Montgomery forced change because the overwhelming majority of riders were black.

You just accidentally proved my point, don't give money to racists and they will either starve or surrender.


It would not have changed much in many other business across the South. The bus company was different
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Athonuna
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Posts: 165
Founded: Apr 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Athonuna » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am

But it's the same thing: If I don't like you, I don't have to have a relationship with you, nor do I have to serve you. You are not entitled to my relationship OR my services.
Last edited by Athonuna on Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Current Accidental policies (Thanks, Pacomia): Corporal Punishment, Prudism, Child Labor (sort of)
Meme summarizing Athonuna, courtesy of Maori Moon
I'M A BIOLOGICAL MALE THAT DOES NOT THINK THAT HE'S A WOMAN!
NOR AM I KAZAKH ARGENTINA (You know who you are)
ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE!
That is all.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 81289
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:42 am

Athonuna wrote:But it's the same thing: If I don't like you, I don't have to have a relationship with you, nor do I have to serve you. You are not entitled to my relationship OR my services.

Open a private club then

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