Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

[Telconi]

And this is relevant how?

How is it not? Why should a community be able to say we wont sell to you because your black?

Because, as previously explained, current legality has no bearing on ideal legality.

Same reason you should be able to say you won't sell to someone because they're a neo-nazi.

[Union of Pepe]

Yes it should be allowed. 1st amendment right says freedom of speech even if it highly offends someone. No because it’s not very nice to do that and it ends up not so good.

[Shofercia]

Recently I have seen comments and heard several politicians say there ought to be a right to discriminate by privately owned business of which the rationale I dont understand

According to some the Civil Rights Act and anti discrimination laws should apply only to government owned business or essential services like a hotel, that it is the owners right to choose who they do business with or who they hire.

Where the constitution is this alleged right?

No one should face discrimination simply because of what they look like or because they are LGBT. Everyone is equal under the law and deserves to be treated equally .

If you want to discriminate then open a private club though I dont think even a business like Costco would be able to get away with only allowing certain groups of people to shop there. If your open to the public you serve all or none at all.

What say you NSG? Should there be a right to discriminate?

It depends whether you're discriminating based on goods or unique services. When I go to In 'n Out, I don't demand a Big Mac. When I go to a Christian Bakery, I don't demand a Gayke. However, if I went to a Christian Bakery and bought a generic wedding cake for a gay friend's wedding, and they wouldn't sell it to me - that'd be wrong, as the cake is already there. And obviously anyone can enter a store and browse the stacks, provided that they're wearing proper attire.

[Diarcesia]

Recently I have seen comments and heard several politicians say there ought to be a right to discriminate by privately owned business of which the rationale I dont understand

According to some the Civil Rights Act and anti discrimination laws should apply only to government owned business or essential services like a hotel, that it is the owners right to choose who they do business with or who they hire.

Where the constitution is this alleged right?

No one should face discrimination simply because of what they look like or because they are LGBT. Everyone is equal under the law and deserves to be treated equally .

If you want to discriminate then open a private club though I dont think even a business like Costco would be able to get away with only allowing certain groups of people to shop there. If your open to the public you serve all or none at all.

What say you NSG? Should there be a right to discriminate?

It depends whether you're discriminating based on goods or unique services. When I go to In 'n Out, I don't demand a Big Mac. When I go to a Christian Bakery, I don't demand a Gayke. However, if I went to a Christian Bakery and bought a generic wedding cake for a gay friend's wedding, and they wouldn't sell it to me - that'd be wrong, as the cake is already there. And obviously anyone can enter a store and browse the stacks, provided that they're wearing proper attire.

Not exactly something that can be explicitly stated in law. If anything, it is more of a cultural issue and than a legislative one. Do we want to have less discrimination in society? Be the change you want to be and live a life of example.

[Kowani]

I still do not see why the basic principle that money is equally valid throughout a society does not apply here.

[Galloism]

Are you sure?

I dont think someone should be told they wont be served because they are blind or for any other disability

So if I own a rental car company, and I refuse service to a blind person, I should be fined?

[Frachen]

We should give a right to discriminate just to annoy people....lol nah idk

[San Lumen]

I dont think someone should be told they wont be served because they are blind or for any other disability

So if I own a rental car company, and I refuse service to a blind person, I should be fined?

Well that would be absurd as a blind person is not going to be driving a car to begin with

[Galloism]

So if I own a rental car company, and I refuse service to a blind person, I should be fined?

Well that would be absurd as a blind person is not going to be driving a car to begin with

I mean, blind people have tried. It typically hasn't ended well.

But you're telling me that if a blind person wants to rent a car, I can't refuse based on them being blind, as that's discrimination based on disability.

Is that fine-able?

[Shofercia]

Not to strawman people, but if you think there should be a right to discriminate, shouldn't there also be a right to murder? A right to steal? A right to arson? All three could be justified in the name of free speech, along with several other crimes that I can't mention because this is PG-13. In fact, murder, theft and arson have a stronger case for free speech: all three have been used as forms of political protest and have a justification for being so.

No, because you can choose to not cater a wedding by not showing up, whereas showing up is sort of required to murder or steal. Freedom not to act should trump freedom to act. And even if you're saying "someone else will do it" - you're still required to show up to set up the contract, thus you're acting, whereas if you're not catering a wedding, you're not acting.

[Diarcesia]

I dont think someone should be told they wont be served because they are blind or for any other disability

So if I own a rental car company, and I refuse service to a blind person, I should be fined?

That case is more clear-cut; it has public safety implications. This can be revisited once we have widespread technology similar to La Forge's VISOR.

[San Lumen]

Well that would be absurd as a blind person is not going to be driving a car to begin with

I mean, blind people have tried. It typically hasn't ended well.

But you're telling me that if a blind person wants to rent a car, I can't refuse based on them being blind, as that's discrimination based on disability.

Is that fine-able?

no as a blind person can't operate that vehicle safely

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Yes, but it should be limited to refusing service(s) as a private business, individual, or organization. Anything else should not be tolerated.

[Shofercia]

It depends whether you're discriminating based on goods or unique services. When I go to In 'n Out, I don't demand a Big Mac. When I go to a Christian Bakery, I don't demand a Gayke. However, if I went to a Christian Bakery and bought a generic wedding cake for a gay friend's wedding, and they wouldn't sell it to me - that'd be wrong, as the cake is already there. And obviously anyone can enter a store and browse the stacks, provided that they're wearing proper attire.

Not exactly something that can be explicitly stated in law. If anything, it is more of a cultural issue and than a legislative one. Do we want to have less discrimination in society? Be the change you want to be and live a life of example.

Sure you can - you're not required to produce a truly unique service. Let's say that I'm a painter, and I paint still life. Patrons cannot enter my store and demand a portrait. I cannot discriminate who my customers are, but I can outline my services. I can open a body shop that only services American made cars that were made during the last five years. It might not be a good business model, but there's nothing stopping me from doing that.

[San Lumen]

Yes, but it should be limited to refusing service(s) as a private business, individual, or organization. Anything else should not be tolerated.

By private business do you mean a store or restaurant? Why should that be allowed?

[Galloism]

I mean, blind people have tried. It typically hasn't ended well.

But you're telling me that if a blind person wants to rent a car, I can't refuse based on them being blind, as that's discrimination based on disability.

Is that fine-able?

no as a blind person can't operate that vehicle safely

Which means it is ok, in at least some circumstances, to discriminate against someone on the basis of their disability.

Correct?

[San Lumen]

no as a blind person can't operate that vehicle safely

Which means it is ok, in at least some circumstances, to discriminate against someone on the basis of their disability.

Correct?

Yes in some circumstances.

[Galloism]

Which means it is ok, in at least some circumstances, to discriminate against someone on the basis of their disability.

Correct?

Yes in some circumstances.

Good, I'll expect you to take more nuanced positions in the future.

How about religion? Are there circumstances where it's ok to discriminate on the basis of religion?

[San Lumen]

Yes in some circumstances.

Good, I'll expect you to take more nuanced positions in the future.

How about religion? Are there circumstances where it's ok to discriminate on the basis of religion?

I can't think of any at the moment.

[Galloism]

Good, I'll expect you to take more nuanced positions in the future.

How about religion? Are there circumstances where it's ok to discriminate on the basis of religion?

I can't think of any at the moment.

Let's say the KKK comes in to your cake shop and requests a cake with a burning cross design on the top.

[Saiwania]

I'm Jewish therefore im not going to sell to someone who sympathizes with a man who killed six million of my people

So far as I can determine, it actually wouldn't be within your rights to refuse service to a neo-Nazi if their beliefs and etc. are covert.

You can trespass them however, if they're publicly too obnoxious, belligerent, or obvious about their beliefs if it is disruptive, but not until then. Just like how most businesses in the US can't openly have a policy of excluding certain people from service or hiring. Even though US businesses can fire and hire for any reason generally speaking. They have to make up other excuses such as their being unqualified or rude, etc. But plenty of arbitrary decisions can be made in any given situation because employees have significantly less power and prestige than big business.

[Tinhampton]

I don;t believe that is protected and I could legally ask him to leave.

And you could do the same thing on the basis of their hair colour.

But if you're in New York, you can't do it on the basis of their hairstyle...

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Sure, if they can ostracize a huge chunk of the population and survive, go for it. That's just free advertising for my "anyone welcome" gas station across the street.

Everything should not be left to the free market. If we did that their might still be large areas of the country where non whites could not rent or buy a house or entire town not serving them.

That's not how the free market works. Source: I'm an evil capitalist pig-dog

[Telconi]

Yes, but it should be limited to refusing service(s) as a private business, individual, or organization. Anything else should not be tolerated.

By private business do you mean a store or restaurant? Why should that be allowed?

Why shouldn't it? Also. Please answer with something other than 'because the law says'

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Yes, but it should be limited to refusing service(s) as a private business, individual, or organization. Anything else should not be tolerated.

By private business do you mean a store or restaurant? Why should that be allowed?

Because it's their business. If they don't want to serve a certain demographic, then it's their choice to make such a foolhardy business decision which will only ruin their reputation. I guarantee you there are a lot of business owners who don't like certain types of people but still service them - not because they're afraid of the law, but because they're smart enough to keep their personal opinions away from their business decisions. We don't need to punish people who do these things; they already punish themselves by losing money and customers, which will only worsen as word gets out about their prejudicial behavior.

Honestly it's just common sense to serve everybody, even if they're part of a demographic you don't like, rather than risk controversy and bad press. They probably teach this shit in business school.

[Diarcesia]

Yes in some circumstances.

Good, I'll expect you to take more nuanced positions in the future.

How about religion? Are there circumstances where it's ok to discriminate on the basis of religion?

This may be rephrased or reworded: As long as you aren't denying the other party's rights, it is okay, if only because "I will go to Hell for doing this" is a strong emotional response and part of human nature. And no, "the customer is always right" is not a legal right.