Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

[San Lumen]

What do you propose is the solution in this scenario then? Only the people they like can attend the wedding?

Yeah pretty much.

So tell me what would you do in this scenario if you were the one getting married ?

[San Lumen]

Why religion? If a store or restaurant had a policy of no Jews or Muslims why would that be ok?

As I've already said,you can't choose if your black,white,yellow,red gay,straight and the likes but you can choose your religion. So i believe that while refusing someone due to something outside of their control is amoral and should be illegal,i also believe refusing someone because of their religion is Amoral but should be Legal seeing as you can choose to be religious,just like you can choose to be a Neo-nazi or a member of the KKK.

I don’t see why discrimination based on religion ought to be ok. Yes someone chooses a religion but it doesn’t justify allowing bigotry simply because it’s a choice

[Lerenzia]

Going up a notch from the wedding scenario, it was recently reported that a Massachusetts company sold genetic classification equipment to China, which they are using to track Muslims they find disruptive to their country. Many have express dismay that the company sold this equipment to the Chinese.

For those of you who feel that a business has no right to discriminate against certain customers, do you defend the company for selling to the Chinese? Or, to put it in the negative, should a company have the right to discriminate against sales due to the national origin of the customer?

What the Chinese do with what is sold to them is their problem,the moment the transaction was made that equipment belonged to the Chinese and anything they did with it was their responsibility and their responsibility alone. The company can't be blamed for what their products are being used for. Say,i bought a knife at the local walmart and started stabbing everyone in a 10 foot radius.
Is Walmart guilty of this Crime?No not really,I could have stabbed those people or i could have gone home and made a sandwich.
Is Walmart reprehensible for this crime?I mean,are they really?They sold me a product and i used it illegally,that's hardly their fault.

The moment you buy something both legal and moral obligation for what the person does with it is theirs and theirs alone.

[Lerenzia]

As I've already said,you can't choose if your black,white,yellow,red gay,straight and the likes but you can choose your religion. So i believe that while refusing someone due to something outside of their control is amoral and should be illegal,i also believe refusing someone because of their religion is Amoral but should be Legal seeing as you can choose to be religious,just like you can choose to be a Neo-nazi or a member of the KKK.

I don’t see why discrimination based on religion ought to be ok. Yes someone chooses a religion but it doesn’t justify allowing bigotry simply because it’s a choice

And?Its morally wrong yes,but why should the government care if the actions you took made others dislike you? The Government isn't your mother,it'll protect your rights but if your actions fuck you over that's your problem and yours alone.

[Ors Might]

As I've already said,you can't choose if your black,white,yellow,red gay,straight and the likes but you can choose your religion. So i believe that while refusing someone due to something outside of their control is amoral and should be illegal,i also believe refusing someone because of their religion is Amoral but should be Legal seeing as you can choose to be religious,just like you can choose to be a Neo-nazi or a member of the KKK.

I don’t see why discrimination based on religion ought to be ok. Yes someone chooses a religion but it doesn’t justify allowing bigotry simply because it’s a choice

Now hold on, people have been saying bigotry shouldn’t be allowed specifically for things one didn’t choose. If you include religion, why shouldn’t you include political beliefs?

[Elwher]

Going up a notch from the wedding scenario, it was recently reported that a Massachusetts company sold genetic classification equipment to China, which they are using to track Muslims they find disruptive to their country. Many have express dismay that the company sold this equipment to the Chinese.

For those of you who feel that a business has no right to discriminate against certain customers, do you defend the company for selling to the Chinese? Or, to put it in the negative, should a company have the right to discriminate against sales due to the national origin of the customer?

What the Chinese do with what is sold to them is their problem,the moment the transaction was made that equipment belonged to the Chinese and anything they did with it was their responsibility and their responsibility alone. The company can't be blamed for what their products are being used for. Say,i bought a knife at the local walmart and started stabbing everyone in a 10 foot radius.
Is Walmart guilty of this Crime?No not really,I could have stabbed those people or i could have gone home and made a sandwich.
Is Walmart reprehensible for this crime?I mean,are they really?They sold me a product and i used it illegally,that's hardly their fault.

The moment you buy something both legal and moral obligation for what the person does with it is theirs and theirs alone.

I agree, but try telling that to the growing movement attempting to make gun manufacturers responsible for mass shootings.

[San Lumen]

As I've already said,you can't choose if your black,white,yellow,red gay,straight and the likes but you can choose your religion. So i believe that while refusing someone due to something outside of their control is amoral and should be illegal,i also believe refusing someone because of their religion is Amoral but should be Legal seeing as you can choose to be religious,just like you can choose to be a Neo-nazi or a member of the KKK.

I don’t see why discrimination based on religion ought to be ok. Yes someone chooses a religion but it doesn’t justify allowing bigotry simply because it’s a choice

And?Its morally wrong yes,but why should the government care if the actions you took made others dislike you? The Government isn't your mother,it'll protect your rights but if your actions fuck you over that's your problem and yours alone.

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

[Elwher]

And?Its morally wrong yes,but why should the government care if the actions you took made others dislike you? The Government isn't your mother,it'll protect your rights but if your actions fuck you over that's your problem and yours alone.

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

A less sympathetic example: A member of Westboro Baptist comes into your store to purchase spray paint to finish their signs before a military funeral they are protesting. Should you have the right to decline the sale?

[Lerenzia]

And?Its morally wrong yes,but why should the government care if the actions you took made others dislike you? The Government isn't your mother,it'll protect your rights but if your actions fuck you over that's your problem and yours alone.

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

Yes,oh well.What can you do? By your logic its also morally correct to accept a Neo nazi and a KKK member into your establishment simply because their just 'ideals'.

[Lerenzia]

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

A less sympathetic example: A member of Westboro Baptist comes into your store to purchase spray paint to finish their signs before a military funeral they are protesting. Should you have the right to decline the sale?

I Believe not,what they do with what they buy is their own damn issue.

[Mystic Warriors]

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

A less sympathetic example: A member of Westboro Baptist comes into your store to purchase spray paint to finish their signs before a military funeral they are protesting. Should you have the right to decline the sale?

No. You shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell a product used in a legal manner.

[Lerenzia]

What the Chinese do with what is sold to them is their problem,the moment the transaction was made that equipment belonged to the Chinese and anything they did with it was their responsibility and their responsibility alone. The company can't be blamed for what their products are being used for. Say,i bought a knife at the local walmart and started stabbing everyone in a 10 foot radius.
Is Walmart guilty of this Crime?No not really,I could have stabbed those people or i could have gone home and made a sandwich.
Is Walmart reprehensible for this crime?I mean,are they really?They sold me a product and i used it illegally,that's hardly their fault.

The moment you buy something both legal and moral obligation for what the person does with it is theirs and theirs alone.

I agree, but try telling that to the growing movement attempting to make gun manufacturers responsible for mass shootings.

Gun manufacturers aren't guilty,the government's shitty gun laws and the people's insistence to read the constitution like it's a fucking text from god himself is what leads to mass shootings in america,but that's besides the point of this thread.

[Ors Might]

A less sympathetic example: A member of Westboro Baptist comes into your store to purchase spray paint to finish their signs before a military funeral they are protesting. Should you have the right to decline the sale?

No. You shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell a product used in a legal manner.

Why not?

[Lerenzia]

No. You shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell a product used in a legal manner.

Why not?

Why not is a rather stupid question,if you can't be willing to sell to someone based on beliefs then you shouldn't start a business in the first place. Then Again i don't think it should be illegal per say,just that society shouldn't see it as something fine or normal to do.

[Ors Might]

Why not?

Why not is a rather stupid question,if you can't be willing to sell to someone based on beliefs then you shouldn't start a business in the first place. Then Again i don't think it should be illegal per say,just that society shouldn't see it as something fine or normal to do.

“Why not” is a perfectly valid question if you agree that it shouldn’t be illegal, thus agreeing that it should be allowed.

[Lerenzia]

Why not is a rather stupid question,if you can't be willing to sell to someone based on beliefs then you shouldn't start a business in the first place. Then Again i don't think it should be illegal per say,just that society shouldn't see it as something fine or normal to do.

“Why not” is a perfectly valid question if you agree that it shouldn’t be illegal, thus agreeing that it should be allowed.

Simply because something is legal does not mean it is moral,Morality should always be above legality

[San Lumen]

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

Yes,oh well.What can you do? By your logic its also morally correct to accept a Neo nazi and a KKK member into your establishment simply because their just 'ideals'.

Not allow that kind of discrimination with anti discrimination ordinances.

[San Lumen]

I don’t see why discrimination based on religion ought to be ok. Yes someone chooses a religion but it doesn’t justify allowing bigotry simply because it’s a choice

Now hold on, people have been saying bigotry shouldn’t be allowed specifically for things one didn’t choose. If you include religion, why shouldn’t you include political beliefs?

I believe political beliefs are already included in some anti discrimination ordinances to an extent. I don't know about the Civil Rights Act though and if its ever been applied to include that.

[Ors Might]

“Why not” is a perfectly valid question if you agree that it shouldn’t be illegal, thus agreeing that it should be allowed.

Simply because something is legal does not mean it is moral,Morality should always be above legality

Agreed. But denying someone their rights is the greater moral offense, as opposed to refusing to provide service.

Now hold on, people have been saying bigotry shouldn’t be allowed specifically for things one didn’t choose. If you include religion, why shouldn’t you include political beliefs?

I believe political beliefs are already included in some anti discrimination ordinances to an extent. I don't know about the Civil Rights Act though and if its ever been applied to include that.

It hasn’t. But let me try to understand you here. You believe discrimination shouldn’t be allowed, even for the things chosen by the discriminated party? Why?

[Galloism]

And?Its morally wrong yes,but why should the government care if the actions you took made others dislike you? The Government isn't your mother,it'll protect your rights but if your actions fuck you over that's your problem and yours alone.

So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

I mean, you yourself said you would personally discriminate on the basis of religion. So why do you think discrimination based on religion is only acceptable in some circumstances?

[Grinning Dragon]

“Why not” is a perfectly valid question if you agree that it shouldn’t be illegal, thus agreeing that it should be allowed.

Simply because something is legal does not mean it is moral,Morality should always be above legality

No.

[Elwher]

A less sympathetic example: A member of Westboro Baptist comes into your store to purchase spray paint to finish their signs before a military funeral they are protesting. Should you have the right to decline the sale?

No. You shouldn't be allowed to refuse to sell a product used in a legal manner.

So Thermo Fisher does not have a right to refuse to sell its DNA testing equipment to the Chinese government?

[San Lumen]

Simply because something is legal does not mean it is moral,Morality should always be above legality

Agreed. But denying someone their rights is the greater moral offense, as opposed to refusing to provide service.

I believe political beliefs are already included in some anti discrimination ordinances to an extent. I don't know about the Civil Rights Act though and if its ever been applied to include that.

It hasn’t. But let me try to understand you here. You believe discrimination shouldn’t be allowed, even for the things chosen by the discriminated party? Why?

I don't think one has a right to be an Islamaphobe or anti Semite in their business. Once again if your open to the public you dont get to pick and choose your customers

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So if a Orthodox Jew goes into a store or hotel in upstate New York with a kippah and they are anti Semitic oh well?

Yes,oh well.What can you do? By your logic its also morally correct to accept a Neo nazi and a KKK member into your establishment simply because their just 'ideals'.

Nazis are enemies of society who inflict harm by their very nature. The same cannot be broadly said of religions as a whole like Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

[Telconi]

Agreed. But denying someone their rights is the greater moral offense, as opposed to refusing to provide service.


It hasn’t. But let me try to understand you here. You believe discrimination shouldn’t be allowed, even for the things chosen by the discriminated party? Why?

I don't think one has a right to be an Islamaphobe or anti Semite in their business. Once again if your open to the public you dont get to pick and choose your customers

You do though... That's why there's those whole "reserve the right to refuse service" signs.