Should There Be A Right To Discriminate?

[Holy Tedalonia]

Depends on the doctor, see when he produced this example I was thinking emergency doctor, who are folk who attempt to save you regardless of a formed contract. The person was vague, and as such got a lackluster response.


That’s a crime, a business has to pay employees. It is the law.

They also take an oath that they treat anyone who walks in the door regardless of ideology, religion, sexual orientation, race or ethnicity. That's why they must treat suspected terrorists as well.

A oath said to be non-obligatory.

[Nationalist Nihon]

Yes, though it should be left to the public to decide when "too far" is too far.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I think you misunderstand the distinction between a business owner and an employee. Employees can only refuse to serve certain people in line with company policies, an employer sets said policies.

And why should a business have the right to refuse service to people the management doesnt like because of already mentioned reasons?

Because businesses should not be compelled to enter into contracts they do not wish to enter into contracts with.

[San Lumen]

They also take an oath that they treat anyone who walks in the door regardless of ideology, religion, sexual orientation, race or ethnicity. That's why they must treat suspected terrorists as well.

If I see a suspected terrorist in my store, I am not gonna treat them equally, I'm calling the cops

Allow me to clarify.

I was referring to a example that occurred in my city when someone attempted to blow themselves up in the subway in December 2017. . https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/nyre ... ubway.html

When then person went to the hospital the doctors had a obligation to treat him and give the same care they would anyone else. They do not and should not have the right to refuse to treat him

[Ors Might]

Because the right to life is important? You understand the concept of supporting multiple things, yes?

It being widely accepted doesn’t mean that it should remain the case. You have to be able to create an argument for your beliefs to stand on, even if they’re shared by the majority. Perhaps especially then.

Yes it is but i don;t understand why some should have less rights than others.

My argument is everyone is equal and no one should have the right to treat anyone as less than them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity. One does not have the right to force their bigotry on everyone else. If your not going to serve everyone dont open a business.

Are their exceptions? Yes. Such as disruptive people but you cannot and should not be able to have a policy of only caucasians will be hired or only whites can shop here.

Here’s where I think you aren’t getting me. I agree that everyone should have the same rights. I just don’t think that among those rights is the right to never be discriminated against. The government and those organizations ran by the government have a responsibility to not discriminate. Individuals, such as business owners, don’t have the same responsibilities as the government. I understand your concerns, Lumen. I share them. Yes, despite believing that businesses ought to have the right to discriminate, I fear what the fallout might be. Which is why I also believe that the government should work to reduce that fallout as much as possible without restricting the rights of others. If it comes to it, we can have a discussion around where and how this right should be restricted. That’s the cost of living in a society. But it should only happen when we’ve exhausted every other available option.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

If I see a suspected terrorist in my store, I am not gonna treat them equally, I'm calling the cops

Allow me to clarify.

I was referring to a example that occurred in my city when someone attempted to blow themselves up in the subway in December 2017. . https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/nyre ... ubway.html

When then person went to the hospital the doctors had a obligation to treat him and give the same care they would anyone else. They do not and should not have the right to refuse to treat him

Yes, since their employer says so. That is how the model works.

[Holy Tedalonia]

If I see a suspected terrorist in my store, I am not gonna treat them equally, I'm calling the cops

Allow me to clarify.

I was referring to a example that occurred in my city when someone attempted to blow themselves up in the subway in December 2017. . https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/nyre ... ubway.html

When then person went to the hospital the doctors had a obligation to treat him and give the same care they would anyone else. They do not and should not have the right to refuse to treat him

Your talking about the Hippocratic Oath which is said to be “purely ceremonial, and non-obligatory.”

[Hammer Britannia]

If I see a suspected terrorist in my store, I am not gonna treat them equally, I'm calling the cops

Allow me to clarify.

I was referring to a example that occurred in my city when someone attempted to blow themselves up in the subway in December 2017. . https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/nyre ... ubway.html

When then person went to the hospital the doctors had a obligation to treat him and give the same care they would anyone else. They do not and should not have the right to refuse to treat him

No mate, that guy was about to murder at least a handful of people. Let the fucker die

[San Lumen]

Yes, though it should be left to the public to decide when "too far" is too far.

Why?

And why should a business have the right to refuse service to people the management doesnt like because of already mentioned reasons?

Because businesses should not be compelled to enter into contracts they do not wish to enter into contracts with.

Then dont open a business

Yes it is but i don;t understand why some should have less rights than others.

My argument is everyone is equal and no one should have the right to treat anyone as less than them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity. One does not have the right to force their bigotry on everyone else. If your not going to serve everyone dont open a business.

Are their exceptions? Yes. Such as disruptive people but you cannot and should not be able to have a policy of only caucasians will be hired or only whites can shop here.

Here’s where I think you aren’t getting me. I agree that everyone should have the same rights. I just don’t think that among those rights is the right to never be discriminated against. The government and those organizations ran by the government have a responsibility to not discriminate. Individuals, such as business owners, don’t have the same responsibilities as the government. I understand your concerns, Lumen. I share them. Yes, despite believing that businesses ought to have the right to discriminate, I fear what the fallout might be. Which is why I also believe that the government should work to reduce that fallout as much as possible without restricting the rights of others. If it comes to it, we can have a discussion around where and how this right should be restricted. That’s the cost of living in a society. But it should only happen when we’ve exhausted every other available option.

Im glad we at least share the same concerns but what fallout are you referring too?

[San Lumen]

Allow me to clarify.

I was referring to a example that occurred in my city when someone attempted to blow themselves up in the subway in December 2017. . https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/nyre ... ubway.html

When then person went to the hospital the doctors had a obligation to treat him and give the same care they would anyone else. They do not and should not have the right to refuse to treat him

No mate, that guy was about to murder at least a handful of people. Let the fucker die

and if you where a doctor you would face disciplinary action for not treating him.

[Holy Tedalonia]

No mate, that guy was about to murder at least a handful of people. Let the fucker die

and as a doctor you would face disciplinary action for not treating him.

Depends on who you are working for, after all The Hippocratic Oath is purely ceremony and is nonobligatory.

[Ors Might]

Yes, though it should be left to the public to decide when "too far" is too far.

Why?

Because businesses should not be compelled to enter into contracts they do not wish to enter into contracts with.

Then dont open a business

Here’s where I think you aren’t getting me. I agree that everyone should have the same rights. I just don’t think that among those rights is the right to never be discriminated against. The government and those organizations ran by the government have a responsibility to not discriminate. Individuals, such as business owners, don’t have the same responsibilities as the government. I understand your concerns, Lumen. I share them. Yes, despite believing that businesses ought to have the right to discriminate, I fear what the fallout might be. Which is why I also believe that the government should work to reduce that fallout as much as possible without restricting the rights of others. If it comes to it, we can have a discussion around where and how this right should be restricted. That’s the cost of living in a society. But it should only happen when we’ve exhausted every other available option.

Im glad we at least share the same concerns but what fallout are you referring too?

Chiefly the things you’ve referred to, such as being denied groceries, housing, and medical care. These are things I want to prevent from happening without placing restrictions ulon the freedoms of others, if at all possible. Its one of the few instances in which I can stomach greater government interference, as it’s being done to protect individual liberty along with providing for those that require it.

[Otira]

Why probably? How are anti discrimination laws and the Civil Rights Act wrong according to you?

Because I'm still thinking it through. And I gave my comparison.
Do you think businesses should be able to fire you for exercising your freedom of speech? Or should its protections extend over them and not just from the government?

San Lumen, you might have missed my response.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Yes, though it should be left to the public to decide when "too far" is too far.

Why?

Because businesses should not be compelled to enter into contracts they do not wish to enter into contracts with.

Then dont open a business

Here’s where I think you aren’t getting me. I agree that everyone should have the same rights. I just don’t think that among those rights is the right to never be discriminated against. The government and those organizations ran by the government have a responsibility to not discriminate. Individuals, such as business owners, don’t have the same responsibilities as the government. I understand your concerns, Lumen. I share them. Yes, despite believing that businesses ought to have the right to discriminate, I fear what the fallout might be. Which is why I also believe that the government should work to reduce that fallout as much as possible without restricting the rights of others. If it comes to it, we can have a discussion around where and how this right should be restricted. That’s the cost of living in a society. But it should only happen when we’ve exhausted every other available option.

Im glad we at least share the same concerns but what fallout are you referring too?

Your argument is a nonsense.
I don't want to enter into a contract with Joe Taylor. Joe Taylor (not real name), is a former customer of mine; he wasn't rude on the phone, but I found him very difficult to work with due to being thick as pig shit, which when you're detailing specifications for a complex custom website is unhelpful. I built him a website, he changed his specificatins, I changed the website, he changed his specifications, I stopped work on the website and told him I could no longer work with him due to his changing specs.
Should I have to accept his contracts, or should I go out of business?

[San Lumen]

and as a doctor you would face disciplinary action for not treating him.

Depends on who you are working for, after all The Hippocratic Oath is purely ceremony and is nonobligatory.

I dont think any hospital would not treat someone under those circumstances

Why?

Then dont open a business

Im glad we at least share the same concerns but what fallout are you referring too?

Chiefly the things you’ve referred to, such as being denied groceries, housing, and medical care. These are things I want to prevent from happening without placing restrictions ulon the freedoms of others, if at all possible. Its one of the few instances in which I can stomach greater government interference, as it’s being done to protect individual liberty along with providing for those that require it.

Well I dont see how you can single out certain types of business without applying the same standards to all.

[San Lumen]

Why?

Then dont open a business

Im glad we at least share the same concerns but what fallout are you referring too?

Your argument is a nonsense.
I don't want to enter into a contract with Joe Taylor. Joe Taylor (not real name), is a former customer of mine; he wasn't rude on the phone, but I found him very difficult to work with due to being thick as pig shit, which when you're detailing specifications for a complex custom website is unhelpful. I built him a website, he changed his specificatins, I changed the website, he changed his specifications, I stopped work on the website and told him I could no longer work with him due to his changing specs.
Should I have to accept his contracts, or should I go out of business?

That is completely different from not working with him because he's African American for example.

[Ors Might]

Depends on who you are working for, after all The Hippocratic Oath is purely ceremony and is nonobligatory.

I dont think any hospital would not treat someone under those circumstances

Chiefly the things you’ve referred to, such as being denied groceries, housing, and medical care. These are things I want to prevent from happening without placing restrictions ulon the freedoms of others, if at all possible. Its one of the few instances in which I can stomach greater government interference, as it’s being done to protect individual liberty along with providing for those that require it.

Well I dont see how you can single out certain types of business without applying the same standards to all.

You can assign certain classifications to certain businesses. I imagine hospitals and movie theaters have different health code standards, for example. But I was thinking more along the lines of the government run hospitals, grocery stores, and so forth. Though there’s the problem of expense.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Your argument is a nonsense.
I don't want to enter into a contract with Joe Taylor. Joe Taylor (not real name), is a former customer of mine; he wasn't rude on the phone, but I found him very difficult to work with due to being thick as pig shit, which when you're detailing specifications for a complex custom website is unhelpful. I built him a website, he changed his specificatins, I changed the website, he changed his specifications, I stopped work on the website and told him I could no longer work with him due to his changing specs.
Should I have to accept his contracts, or should I go out of business?

That is completely different from not working with him because he's African American for example.

No it isn't, I found him impossible to work with due to being an idiot. If his idiocy was caused by a learning disability, should I still be able to refuse to work with him?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I dont think any hospital would not treat someone under those circumstances

Well I dont see how you can single out certain types of business without applying the same standards to all.

You can assign certain classifications to certain businesses. I imagine hospitals and movie theaters have different health code standards, for example. But I was thinking more along the lines of the government run hospitals, grocery stores, and so forth. Though there’s the problem of expense.

Government-run grocery stores? Where are they a thing?

[Holy Tedalonia]

Depends on who you are working for, after all The Hippocratic Oath is purely ceremony and is nonobligatory.

I dont think any hospital would not treat someone under those circumstances

Say a doctor doesnt treat a patient, they face the hospital. The hospital cares about making money which is why they don’t give a shit about the doctors opinion. It’s not about oaths, its about if the hospital wants to deal with the doctors crap.

For contract doctors, they get bad reviews, convincing people to not hire him. Reviews are everything in the world a medicine.

Oaths have nothing to do with the doctors obligations.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Only with artistic commissions on the basis of the message delivered in the commission.

[Otira]

That is completely different from not working with him because he's African American for example.

No it isn't, I found him impossible to work with due to being an idiot. If his idiocy was caused by a learning disability, should I still be able to refuse to work with him?

Ask him if he thinks businesses should be able to fire you for exercising your freedom of speech. Or should its protections extend over them and not just from the government?

[Alvecia]

I imagine it does depend on the state, but there's a significant proportion of hospitals in the US owned by the Church that refuses services such as abortions and contraception.

Which they are, of course, perfectly entitled to do since they are a private company offering services.

And when that private company can monopolise the market, so to speak, those in need of desperate care can be denied such.
As in the case of Ms Melanie Jones

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No it isn't, I found him impossible to work with due to being an idiot. If his idiocy was caused by a learning disability, should I still be able to refuse to work with him?

Ask him if he thinks businesses should be able to fire you for exercising your freedom of speech. Or should its protections extend over them and not just from the government?

Oh sorry, I missed your post.
I don't think they should, no; but I don't think they should be able to fire you for what we're discussing either. I distinguish between refusing to serve and refusing to fire.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Which they are, of course, perfectly entitled to do since they are a private company offering services.

And when that private company can monopolise the market, so to speak, those in need of desperate care can be denied such.
As in the case of Ms Melanie Jones

I think the US health system was designed to avoid one hospital monopolising the market, and has failed in that regard.