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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:43 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki
Valentine Z wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:If you use an AI to auto-generate writing in NS, doesn't that take a dump (sort of) on the creative process of the RP and managing of a nation in the game? It feels a little bit like cheating and unfair to those posters who put the time to create written content for their nations... At least, IMO.


I probably won't just copy-and-paste the entire thing, but sometimes, just for myself, I got stuck with some idea and might need something to get going.

It could help me a little if I suddenly don't know how to continue.


I think I can see an use for it for generating news about a nation. I know some posters have a national newspaper or outlet in RP so perhaps an AI hold help in managing that aspect of their RP. But I still think nothing beats the posters themselves coming up with ideas.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:42 pm
by Ionicus
Yohannes wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:
If that thing went gold again, I will probably post a thread of "RPs" that it tried to work with, after I feed it enough of my work.

I want to see what it comes up with. :P


It'd help a lot of people, I think (which would be good for them), especially for Global Economics and Trade.

At the moment, you've got people who are trying to create a storefront (basically, fictional companies on NationStates), but sadly they know nothing at all about how that company would operate in real life. And this is bad, because instead what we've got is a culture of copy-and-paste communique/letter that is not even roleplaying or storytelling.

For instance, I will pick a random player who I don't know here (just in case people think I'm advertising other players! Haha)

You've got this player: [ viewtopic.php?f=6&t=422688 ]

By looking at their storefront (very pretty and a lot of hard work in terms of pictures there), I can tell immediately they know nothing at all about how to roleplay/write stories about finance and banking (most likely because they know nothing at all about macroeconomic or the finance industry in real life). If you look at British Hifax's thread, it's just a bunch of pictures with random fancy words (inflation, etc.), but from the way British Hifax interact with their customers ( like this: viewtopic.php?p=33644188#p33644188 ), I can tell immediately they know nothing at all about what they are doing (e.g. how do I RP a fictional bank? How do I storytell or write about its operations on NationStates?)

1. It's just copy-paste material/no brain required or thought and critical thinking involved
2. It's just copy-paste material from existing real life companies used as "inspiration"

So this Autogenerated Writing thing will, hopefully if it will work, help players like British Hifax to write stories about what their company is actually all about on NationStates (instead of just copy-pasting identical letters to reply to people's application posts). So instead of looking at it in a bad way, we can look at this thing in a positive way (how it'd help other players who have poor roleplaying or poor writing skills; still young students; or don't know a lot of things in real life!)

This is another example of someone who just copy and paste letter-replies to people: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=438981

You can tell they know nothing at all about how how to storytell or roleplay their fictional airline company. And that is fine - a lot of people don't know about many things. For instance, even I don't know anything at all about real life airlines (that's why I've never bothered making an airlines storefront, because if I don't know anything at all about the airlines industry, why bother making a storefront for it if I'm just going to copy and paste letters to people instead of writing actual stories?)

So I've seen some people worrying about this Autogenerated Writing (and we don't even know whether this thing will actually be that good or not, so why worry about it?), and that's fine. But it can also help people like British Hifax or Valkia (Stormwrath), who know nothing at all about how to RP or write stories (to reply to customers' posts) about their fictional companies on NationStates. So this Autogenerated Writing thing can actually help many players on NationStates!

Edit:

Valentine Z wrote:Ahh, all is well! Sorry if I sounded hostile, for that wasn't my intention. If any, I am just happy that you are proud of your work, because I know that you have a lot of stuff you have done and written in your time here.

It's good to be proud of your work. :D


Oh no no! Don't worry. If you do, you will know!


Interesting that you shame people for copying and pasting considering your own GE&T history.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 am
by Consular
Valentine Z wrote:That sounds a bit like a humblebrag.

Whoa, bit of an understatement. His entire post is just bragging about how he "can tell whether someone is writing what they actually know about or not" -- because he reads parliamentary debates and that makes him better than other people, and he has naturally decided talking down to other people on an obscure website is the best way to spend his time. It's sad.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:27 am
by Great Nortend
Yohannes wrote:Wow... haha I'm from New Zealand so kinda late with the all the latest technology around... but dear... that is amazing (But will be bad for me, I guess, as a NationStates writer)

You're from New Zealand? I never realised that.

I would be wary of any move to promote auto-generated writing. I think it would be effectively spam, even if it were well-constructed, logical and interesting spam. The entire point of RPing is to develop a fictional world. If you just let a machine do it for you, there's little interest there for me at least. And yes, I admit to copying real-life pro forma documents... simply because there's no point in trying to guess what a person trained in chancery language would write when I have very little experience in diplomatic correspondence, as I am not a diplomat.

I realise very few writers of storefronts have any practical knowledge in the fields in which they roleplay. If we were to in actuality roleplay business, commerce and importantly, resultant contractual relations, a topic which I have some knowledge of, I fear roleplaying would become increasingly dull and even more repetitive than it already is. AI in my opinion shouldn't ever replace manual writing.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:12 am
by British Hifax
Yohannes wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:
If that thing went gold again, I will probably post a thread of "RPs" that it tried to work with, after I feed it enough of my work.

I want to see what it comes up with. :P


It'd help a lot of people, I think (which would be good for them), especially for Global Economics and Trade.

At the moment, you've got people who are trying to create a storefront (basically, fictional companies on NationStates), but sadly they know nothing at all about how that company would operate in real life. And this is bad, because instead what we've got is a culture of copy-and-paste communique/letter that is not even roleplaying or storytelling.

For instance, I will pick a random player who I don't know here (just in case people think I'm advertising other players! Haha)

You've got this player: [ viewtopic.php?f=6&t=422688 ]

By looking at their storefront (very pretty and a lot of hard work in terms of pictures there), I can tell immediately they know nothing at all about how to roleplay/write stories about finance and banking (most likely because they know nothing at all about macroeconomic or the finance industry in real life). If you look at British Hifax's thread, it's just a bunch of pictures with random fancy words (inflation, etc.), but from the way British Hifax interact with their customers ( like this: viewtopic.php?p=33644188#p33644188 ), I can tell immediately they know nothing at all about what they are doing (e.g. how do I RP a fictional bank? How do I storytell or write about its operations on NationStates?)

1. It's just copy-paste material/no brain required or thought and critical thinking involved
2. It's just copy-paste material from existing real life companies used as "inspiration"

So this Autogenerated Writing thing will, hopefully if it will work, help players like British Hifax to write stories about what their company is actually all about on NationStates (instead of just copy-pasting identical letters to reply to people's application posts). So instead of looking at it in a bad way, we can look at this thing in a positive way (how it'd help other players who have poor roleplaying or poor writing skills; still young students; or don't know a lot of things in real life!)

This is another example of someone who just copy and paste letter-replies to people: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=438981

You can tell they know nothing at all about how how to storytell or roleplay their fictional airline company. And that is fine - a lot of people don't know about many things. For instance, even I don't know anything at all about real life airlines (that's why I've never bothered making an airlines storefront, because if I don't know anything at all about the airlines industry, why bother making a storefront for it if I'm just going to copy and paste letters to people instead of writing actual stories?)

So I've seen some people worrying about this Autogenerated Writing (and we don't even know whether this thing will actually be that good or not, so why worry about it?), and that's fine. But it can also help people like British Hifax or Valkia (Stormwrath), who know nothing at all about how to RP or write stories (to reply to customers' posts) about their fictional companies on NationStates. So this Autogenerated Writing thing can actually help many players on NationStates!

Edit:

Valentine Z wrote:Ahh, all is well! Sorry if I sounded hostile, for that wasn't my intention. If any, I am just happy that you are proud of your work, because I know that you have a lot of stuff you have done and written in your time here.

It's good to be proud of your work. :D


Oh no no! Don't worry. If you do, you will know!

I've been thinking of replying this since I randomly found the thread yesterday and I can tell that I thought some 25 answers to your comments in different tones and loaded of different emotions, I even thought in no replying to you and even leaving NS, because, what's the matter after all, if you put effort in things and someone comes and uses your creations to turn them into cold fancy pictures and words?

I've been playing this game for five years now but I can affirm that I progressed only in the last two years when I moved to Astyria and I started to realise that NS was something more than just GE&T. I know I'm not the best player, neither RP nor making storefronts and yeah, you guessed it! I'm still a young student whose native language is not English! but do I have to be an expert on airlines, banks, diplomacy, journalism, English and wars to play NS? I don't think so, it's a game and just that, we try to be as realists as possible but sometimes when answering an average, simple application I don't see very needed to start a whole RP (which doesn't mean that if you wanna start it with PBP I would be more than open to receive it). I really never used ''Autogenerated Writing'' or whatever it is called, I actually didn't know that existed (because again, from my five years playing NS, you can only count two of really doing things).

To end this, I read that you have some dual personality, a good and a bad one, that's ok but not when you have a passive-aggressive attitude with other players just to show ''everyone'' how good you can be at roleplaying politics and financial institutions, it feels as if you are constantly looking for attention, Yohannes, and I don't know if an expert player like you should play this role, like Consular said, it's sad, very sad.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:00 am
by Unstoppable Empire of Doom
AI is scary. It can be difficult enough to notice when speaking on the phone, text is nearly impossible. They can beat pro gamers in pvp on complex games. There are practically no regulations.