NationStates

Saiwania wrote:

Heloin wrote:So if I'm reading the OP correctly Vic Mignogna is either a serial rapist who eats babies, or is a saint among men who is being targeted by an evil conspiracy for reasons?

I'll admit as much that I love binary choices. Because in part, it forces people to take a strong position on a given issue or topic. One famous saying in life is that "you can't have it both ways." While its possible for Vic Mignogna to have characteristics of both innocence and guilt in this case, I'm also interested in what side someone leans towards if they had to choose one extreme or the other?

Part of making a decision is to usually, to weigh the reasons why and commit to what direction you want to go in.

Ok, that's actually a lot clearer to me for what the OP was about then reading through it myself, thanks.

I generally avoid the idea of there being an extreme for these kind of situations especially since it's real people, both the victims and accused, so I go off what we know. And what we know is he has been seen to be overly touchy-feely in ways that are not considered appropriate for most and has been fired as a result of all this. Everything beyond that point is speculation and only encourages the kind of exclusionary behaviour that arguments on the internet so often end in.

I'm sad that Qrow has to be recast because of this, and I know that I'll be able to tell the difference. That's about the extent of my caring on the subject, though.

So how many of you have actually done the reading, and how many of you are just jumping on the bandwagon that any accusation of sexual assault against a prominent male must be automatically false because reasons?

Maybe he's guilty, maybe not, I've never heard of this guy up until now and I don't care enough to spend the time researching this particular case to form an opinion.

However, I find it fascinating (but not surprising) that there is yet another example of an equal, opposite reaction to a misconduct allegation. In response to those who say accusers should be unconditionally believed, reactionaries have gone way past "innocent until proven guilty/let's see the evidence" all the way to accusers should be unconditionally disbelieved. Now every time there is one of these stories, from the moment the most vague tweet about it hits the internet, you are guaranteed to see people who dismiss the accusations as fabricated from the start, using the same absolutist mentality of those they claim to oppose.

Page wrote:Maybe he's guilty, maybe not, I've never heard of this guy up until now and I don't care enough to spend the time researching this particular case to form an opinion.

However, I find it fascinating (but not surprising) that there is yet another example of an equal, opposite reaction to a misconduct allegation. In response to those who say accusers should be unconditionally believed, reactionaries have gone way past "innocent until proven guilty/let's see the evidence" all the way to accusers should be unconditionally disbelieved. Now every time there is one of these stories, from the moment the most vague tweet about it hits the internet, you are guaranteed to see people who dismiss the accusations as fabricated from the start, using the same absolutist mentality of those they claim to oppose.

Basically everyone is supposed to have a camera on their person at all times recording everything that happens to them or anything they claimed happened didn't happen.

Page wrote:Maybe he's guilty, maybe not, I've never heard of this guy up until now and I don't care enough to spend the time researching this particular case to form an opinion.

However, I find it fascinating (but not surprising) that there is yet another example of an equal, opposite reaction to a misconduct allegation. In response to those who say accusers should be unconditionally believed, reactionaries have gone way past "innocent until proven guilty/let's see the evidence" all the way to accusers should be unconditionally disbelieved. Now every time there is one of these stories, from the moment the most vague tweet about it hits the internet, you are guaranteed to see people who dismiss the accusations as fabricated from the start, using the same absolutist mentality of those they claim to oppose.

I mean, you're also gonna have people who claim that the possible perpetrator needs to be hunted down immediately and jailed/knocked down a peg for their accused behavior, and this side currently happens to be the winning side. Controversial stories/reports get controversial opinions thrown about, who would'a guessed?

Apparently, because this needs to be clarified to certain people... I'm neither defending Vic nor supporting his accusers by saying the above, simply pointing out a fact you're delibertly choosing to ignore (However, knowing Vic's past behavior, I am in no way surprised that these accusations have come up).

Legally speaking, people are innocent until proven guilty. But there's also a certain point where there's so much smoke that a narrative that doesn't include fire, and instead involves everyone having to wait to see if there's dozens of cunningly concealed smoke machines before forming an opinion, begins to stretch credulity.

Maybe there is some truth to the accusations, or maybe there isn't. I couldn't find anything concrete. Either way, I think they should have waited for more evidence, but I don't have that strong of an opinion in this case.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Maybe there is some truth to the accusations, or maybe there isn't. I couldn't find anything concrete. Either way, I think they should have waited for more evidence, but I don't have that strong of an opinion in this case.

Funimation literally did a full investigation before letting him go. I'd say that's a sign there's truth to this.

New haven america wrote:

Page wrote:Maybe he's guilty, maybe not, I've never heard of this guy up until now and I don't care enough to spend the time researching this particular case to form an opinion.

However, I find it fascinating (but not surprising) that there is yet another example of an equal, opposite reaction to a misconduct allegation. In response to those who say accusers should be unconditionally believed, reactionaries have gone way past "innocent until proven guilty/let's see the evidence" all the way to accusers should be unconditionally disbelieved. Now every time there is one of these stories, from the moment the most vague tweet about it hits the internet, you are guaranteed to see people who dismiss the accusations as fabricated from the start, using the same absolutist mentality of those they claim to oppose.

I mean, you're also gonna have people who claim that the possible perpetrator needs to be hunted down immediately and jailed/knocked down a peg for their accused behavior, and this side currently happens to be the winning side. Controversial stories/reports get controversial opinions thrown about, who would'a guessed?

Apparently, because this needs to be clarified to certain people... I'm neither defending Vic nor supporting his accusers by saying the above, simply pointing out a fact you're delibertly choosing to ignore (However, knowing Vic's past behavior, I am in no way surprised that these accusations have come up).

I'm not quite sure how we got from that to the death threats being hurled at the accusers despite his token attempts to stop them really.

Vassenor wrote:

New haven america wrote:I mean, you're also gonna have people who claim that the possible perpetrator needs to be hunted down immediately and jailed/knocked down a peg for their accused behavior, and this side currently happens to be the winning side. Controversial stories/reports get controversial opinions thrown about, who would'a guessed?

Apparently, because this needs to be clarified to certain people... I'm neither defending Vic nor supporting his accusers by saying the above, simply pointing out a fact you're delibertly choosing to ignore (However, knowing Vic's past behavior, I am in no way surprised that these accusations have come up).

I'm not quite sure how we got from that to the death threats being hurled at the accusers despite his token attempts to stop them really.

You're the certain people I was talking about.

There should be a louder third faction

The "It's None of My Business" faction

I like that faction a lot

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Maybe there is some truth to the accusations, or maybe there isn't. I couldn't find anything concrete. Either way, I think they should have waited for more evidence, but I don't have that strong of an opinion in this case.

Once again, we don't know what's in Funimation's HR department notes. It's extremely unlikely that we'll ever see those notes. But whatever Funimation's internal investigation found was apparently sufficient to merit them cutting him loose. They stayed quiet for a good week or so after things started to flare up on social media before announcing they were terminating him, so I rather doubt their response was a knee-jerk reaction to the drama, they were most likely talking with their lawyers and making sure all their ducks were in a row before making any statement on the matter.

And while I never had the occasion to encounter the man myself, I've heard an abundance of horror stories from friends who have, many of which had to deal with him while they were convention staff. Granted, that's all secondhand anecdotal evidence, but it lines up pretty well with the plethora of stories coming out about his behavior now. Like I said earlier, that he's kinda a creep has been an open secret for years. I can only assume that his prominent role in the extremely successful DB Super movie simply acted as a catalyst to finally put a spotlight on it, especially since the movie's success would have meant a boatload of convention appearances and potentially subjecting a whole lot more people to his known behavior than before.

I heard about this weeks ago, and to me at least, he's mostly innocent. Even if it turns out that he is completely innocent receiving apologies and whatnot, his reputation and career will be ruined for months because of this over exaggerated situation. To me the whole #MeToo thing is way too unreliable/untrustworthy. If a dude went out of his way and did something similar to #MeToo, nobody would care. He'd probably even be mocked if he isn't a minor celebrity.

Proof that anime is destroying society.

New haven america wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
I'm not quite sure how we got from that to the death threats being hurled at the accusers despite his token attempts to stop them really.

You're the certain people I was talking about.

...I am not following your chain of logic here.

Such allegiations can easily destroy a man's carreer, as thousands of feminists and white knights will instantly brand them as guilty and tear them apart. Even if they get proven innocent, their reputation will be ruined.



Just an example is how a youtuber Tobuscus was ruined by rape allegations from a girl who decided to post it on the internet instead of reporting him to the police (very legit) - even though there was no evidence, dozens of people believed her instantly and proceeded to viciously harass him.






Guilty or not, the moment you get accused of harassment/rape, you're fucked. This is the society we live in.

Gudmund wrote:I heard about this weeks ago, and to me at least, he's mostly innocent. Even if it turns out that he is completely innocent receiving apologies and whatnot, his reputation and career will be ruined for months because of this over exaggerated situation. To me the whole #MeToo thing is way too unreliable/untrustworthy. If a dude went out of his way and did something similar to #MeToo, nobody would care. He'd probably even be mocked if he isn't a minor celebrity.

You mean like Terry Crews?

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Proof that anime is destroying society.

...

why the hatred against anime on this forum

Gudmund wrote:I heard about this weeks ago, and to me at least, he's mostly innocent. Even if it turns out that he is completely innocent receiving apologies and whatnot, his reputation and career will be ruined for months because of this over exaggerated situation. To me the whole #MeToo thing is way too unreliable/untrustworthy. If a dude went out of his way and did something similar to #MeToo, nobody would care. He'd probably even be mocked if he isn't a minor celebrity.

I wasn't aware Terry Crews didn't participate in #MeToo.

Infected Mushroom wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Proof that anime is destroying society.

...

why the hatred against anime on this forum

It's everywhere on the internet.

Especially when it comes to anime fans. They hate anime the most out of anyone on the internet.

Infected Mushroom wrote:

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Proof that anime is destroying society.

...

why the hatred against anime on this forum

Because it's terrible.

New haven america wrote:I wasn't aware Terry Crews didn't participate in #MeToo.

I wasn't aware Terry Crews apparently isn't a celebrity.

Gudmund wrote:

New haven america wrote:I wasn't aware Terry Crews didn't participate in #MeToo.

I wasn't aware Terry Crews apparently isn't a celebrity.

So are we trying to erase examples of male victims participating in #MeToo and being supported in the endeavour?

New haven america wrote:So are we trying to erase examples of male victims participating in #MeToo and being supported in the endeavour?

I'm saying most guys that do something similar to #MeToo without some sort of celebrity status go unnoticed.