Easy to say, as militaries are supposed to follow orders,but they're as human as you and I. I suspect if the Coast Guard was order to let people drown, there would be a lot more insubordination, and/or a lot less Coast Guards.
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by Alvecia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:01 am
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:04 am
by Alvecia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:07 am
Trumptonium1 wrote:Alvecia wrote:Easy to say, as militaries are supposed to follow orders,but they're as human as you and I. I suspect if the Coast Guard was order to let people drown, there would be a lot more insubordination, and/or a lot less Coast Guards.
There's a reason the vast majority of Italian Carabinieri are from Mezzogiorno. Around 3 in 4 come from not just the south but especially Sicily, Campania and Calabria.
I suppose the same is true of the Armed Forces as a whole.
I believe the BBC did an article on a town in Emilia-Romagna, northern Italy, where the entire Carabinieri force is from Campania, region of Naples.
To put this into a better analogy - imagine if the entire CBP on Mexico's border are Evangelicals from Deep South.
They really don't care. And given that they see what illegal migration has done to their hometowns, they are likely not to care even more.
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:16 am
Alvecia wrote:Trumptonium1 wrote:
There's a reason the vast majority of Italian Carabinieri are from Mezzogiorno. Around 3 in 4 come from not just the south but especially Sicily, Campania and Calabria.
I suppose the same is true of the Armed Forces as a whole.
I believe the BBC did an article on a town in Emilia-Romagna, northern Italy, where the entire Carabinieri force is from Campania, region of Naples.
To put this into a better analogy - imagine if the entire CBP on Mexico's border are Evangelicals from Deep South.
They really don't care. And given that they see what illegal migration has done to their hometowns, they are likely not to care even more.
Like I said. Easy to say.
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:20 am
by Phoenicaea » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:21 am
by Ifreann » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 am
Trumptonium1 wrote:Ifreann wrote:
So we're agreed, the Italian coast guard isn't going to leave people to die at sea. Excellent.
They will if those are their orders.
Plus the convention explicitly states that the rescuing party needs to be "informed of their [lost at sea] distress"
Can't be informed if you choose to not care
(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in
distress, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such
action may reasonably be expected of him;
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:24 am
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:26 am
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:30 am
Ifreann wrote:Trumptonium1 wrote:
They will if those are their orders.
Plus the convention explicitly states that the rescuing party needs to be "informed of their [lost at sea] distress"
Can't be informed if you choose to not care
(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in
distress, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such
action may reasonably be expected of him;
Well since you want Italy to abandon its territorial waters I suppose it follows that you want Italy to stop having coast guard patrols.
It's kinda weird that you say that the moral thing to do is rescue people, but also you seem to want very badly to find a way to justifiably let them drown.
by El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:30 am
Kustonia wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Prove it
Prove it
Mixing cultures would create new identities, actually.
Depends on the capitalist.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ness-model
If you mix cultures, you destroy existing identities.
Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:There is evidence of refugees often destroy the economy of the areas they are in.
Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:But to be honest my biggest problems with illegal immigrants is that they are often exploited by criminals
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:Oh, look. Another Communist. There is evidence of refugees often destroy the economy of the areas they are in.
But to be honest my biggest problems with illegal immigrants is that they are often exploited by criminals
Seeing somebody call an Islamist hardliner a communist is rather amusing, not gonna lie.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
by Sicaris » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:33 am
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Kustonia wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ness-model
If you mix cultures, you destroy existing identities.
And creating new ones.
Also, an opinion article doesn't prove jack. Find a better source. And you haven't proven how identitarians are trying to stop that.Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:Oh, look. Another Communist.
I'm an Islamist, not a Communist.Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:There is evidence of refugees often destroy the economy of the areas they are in.
Show it, then.Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:But to be honest my biggest problems with illegal immigrants is that they are often exploited by criminals
True, same here.Western Vale Confederacy wrote:
Seeing somebody call an Islamist hardliner a communist is rather amusing, not gonna lie.
I'm Islamist, not Islamist hardliner.Sicaris wrote:
He was using a government entity to prevent the entrance of illegal immigrants into his country.
I don’t see what’s wrong here.
They're not illegal immigrants, tho.
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:38 am
by Ifreann » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:39 am
Trumptonium1 wrote:Ifreann wrote:Well since you want Italy to abandon its territorial waters I suppose it follows that you want Italy to stop having coast guard patrols.
It's kinda weird that you say that the moral thing to do is rescue people, but also you seem to want very badly to find a way to justifiably let them drown.
Safety and nationhood > Morality
I take no shame in saying that I would want my leader to launch a nuke on a civilian city akin to Hiroshima if it meant saving the nation. I also take no shame in saying that illegals shouldn't be rescued if it means that's the only way to run a country properly with an actual workable, popular and justifiable immigration policy.
Again, any drownings are on liberals. First you invite them here by placing a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then you moan when people say GTFO. Moderates and conservatives have no issue with helping people escape conflict or not drown. We do have a problem with this being used as an excuse for permanent migration. So I'd rather not help than see the country flooded with people escaping Mogadishu. That dead Syrian kid? Liberal's fault.
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:43 am
by Gravlen » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:43 am
Trumptonium1 wrote:Des-Bal wrote:
That's the scenario. In this case someone had a near deadly accident, you rescued them, took them onto the relative safety of the bridge, and said "you aren't getting out of here unless you jump." That's Saw shit.
This gets filed under the "too bad" bookcase.
The country doesn't want them, and law cannot be changed. The only option is to flout the law in the name of common sense.
by Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:44 am
Ifreann wrote:Trumptonium1 wrote:
Safety and nationhood > Morality
I take no shame in saying that I would want my leader to launch a nuke on a civilian city akin to Hiroshima if it meant saving the nation. I also take no shame in saying that illegals shouldn't be rescued if it means that's the only way to run a country properly with an actual workable, popular and justifiable immigration policy.
Again, any drownings are on liberals. First you invite them here by placing a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, then you moan when people say GTFO. Moderates and conservatives have no issue with helping people escape conflict or not drown. We do have a problem with this being used as an excuse for permanent migration. So I'd rather not help than see the country flooded with people escaping Mogadishu. That dead Syrian kid? Liberal's fault.
"I'm trying to trigger liberals"
Gotcha.
by Ifreann » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:50 am
by Liriena » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:52 am
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by El-Amin Caliphate » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:58 am
Sicaris wrote:El-Amin Caliphate wrote:And creating new ones.
Also, an opinion article doesn't prove jack. Find a better source. And you haven't proven how identitarians are trying to stop that.
I'm an Islamist, not a Communist.
Show it, then.
True, same here.
I'm Islamist, not Islamist hardliner.
They're not illegal immigrants, tho.
How so? Illegally crossing a vast sea via raft and attempting to just enter a country sounds rather illegal, especially when they have specified they don’t want this happening.
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)
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