Italy's Salvini May Face Trial for 'Kidnapping' Migrants

[Kustonia]

It doesn't have to be voted on. There are other facets of government that do not require legislation.

So it is still just because he says so.

Yes, because he is a government minister with designated authority. He has the power to do that.

[Vassenor]

So it is still just because he says so.

Yes, because he is a government minister with designated authority. He has the power to do that.

So when did the Corpo delle Capitanerie di porto – Guardia costiera become an NGO and thus subject to his port closure?

[Ifreann]

No, they didn't. The rescued people were on an Italian coast guard vessel. They had no authority over the captain of that vessel, nor did the captain of that vessel have the authority to take it wherever he felt like.

So the captain should be on trial for detaining the migrants, not Salvini.

It wasn't the captain who said they couldn't disembark.

I don't recall Italy doing anything of the sort.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44668062

"Migrant crisis: Italy minister Salvini closes ports to NGO boats"
Do please tell me to which non-government organisation the Diciotti belongs.

[Vassenor]

I mean I know that conservatives have a hard-on for trying to force us to refer to refugees as illegal migrants because it makes it easier to demonise them and to pretend that governments don't have responsibilities towards them as enshrined in international law, but...

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I mean I know that conservatives have a hard-on for trying to force us to refer to refugees as illegal migrants because it makes it easier to demonise them and to pretend that governments don't have responsibilities towards them as enshrined in international law, but...

They used to be called illegal aliens, but that is too politically incorrect these days.

[Kustonia]

So the captain should be on trial for detaining the migrants, not Salvini.

It wasn't the captain who said they couldn't disembark.

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

[Ifreann]

Italian law should be changed. This is ridiculous. Not allowing migrants to freely roam your country should not be illegal.

If only there was some way that people on an Italian coast guard vessel could have been delivered into the custody of the relevant Italian government agency, who could have sorted out who among them could stay in Italy and who among them would have to be deported.

Alas, this is impossible, and the only way to keep migrants from freely roaming Italy is to hold them on Italian coast guard vessels until some other nations offer to take them in.

[Vassenor]

It wasn't the captain who said they couldn't disembark.

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

Not really? Under what logic is he unlawfully detaining them?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I thought that the migrants were quite free to leave.

into the sea

[Kustonia]

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

Not really? Under what logic is he unlawfully detaining them?

The captain didn't say that the ship couldn't disembark, like Ifreann said. But since Italy closed its ports of entry, it couldn't disembark in Italy. Therefore, the captain should've taken them back to their point of disembarkment where they would be safe.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Italian law should be changed. This is ridiculous. Not allowing migrants to freely roam your country should not be illegal.

If only there was some way that people on an Italian coast guard vessel could have been delivered into the custody of the relevant Italian government agency, who could have sorted out who among them could stay in Italy and who among them would have to be deported.

Alas, this is impossible, and the only way to keep migrants from freely roaming Italy is to hold them on Italian coast guard vessels until some other nations offer to take them in.

I would just send them all back to where they came from.

[Kustonia]

If only there was some way that people on an Italian coast guard vessel could have been delivered into the custody of the relevant Italian government agency, who could have sorted out who among them could stay in Italy and who among them would have to be deported.

Alas, this is impossible, and the only way to keep migrants from freely roaming Italy is to hold them on Italian coast guard vessels until some other nations offer to take them in.

I would just send them all back to where they came from.

That's the logical conclusion.

[Vassenor]

Not really? Under what logic is he unlawfully detaining them?

The captain didn't say that the ship couldn't disembark, like Ifreann said. But since Italy closed its ports of entry, it couldn't disembark in Italy. Therefore, the captain should've taken them back to their point of disembarkment where they would be safe.

So you're asserting that the Italian Coast Guard is an NGO again?

[Ifreann]

It wasn't the captain who said they couldn't disembark.

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

No, he couldn't have taken them to Libya, because he can only take the ship he commands where he's told to take it. He would have needed permission from his superiors to go to Libya. And they would probably need to get the agreement of the Libyan authorities. And Salvini is not his superior.

[Kustonia]

The captain didn't say that the ship couldn't disembark, like Ifreann said. But since Italy closed its ports of entry, it couldn't disembark in Italy. Therefore, the captain should've taken them back to their point of disembarkment where they would be safe.

So you're asserting that the Italian Coast Guard is an NGO again?

No, I'm saying that the captain didn't do his job.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

No, he couldn't have taken them to Libya, because he can only take the ship he commands where he's told to take it. He would have needed permission from his superiors to go to Libya. And they would probably need to get the agreement of the Libyan authorities. And Salvini is not his superior.

He could have disgorged the migrants into the sea. Not very nice but definitely not kidnap.

[Vassenor]

So you're asserting that the Italian Coast Guard is an NGO again?

No, I'm saying that the captain didn't do his job.

By not following the terms of a restriction that didn't apply to him?

[Kustonia]

So the captain could've taken them back to Libya, but he decided not to. Therefore, he's guilty of kidnapping the migrants.

No, he couldn't have taken them to Libya, because he can only take the ship he commands where he's told to take it. He would have needed permission from his superiors to go to Libya. And they would probably need to get the agreement of the Libyan authorities. And Salvini is not his superior.

I don't know the exact process, but I would assume that the captain would've needed to make a decision at some point.

[Vassenor]

No, he couldn't have taken them to Libya, because he can only take the ship he commands where he's told to take it. He would have needed permission from his superiors to go to Libya. And they would probably need to get the agreement of the Libyan authorities. And Salvini is not his superior.

I don't know the exact process, but I would assume that the captain would've needed to make a decision at some point.

And he decided to take the rescued individuals to Italian soil.

[Reichsstaaten von Germania]

In my opinion, nothing wrong was done. Italy can’t take every schmuck who wants to come and yes they are illegal immigrants even if refugees because they are still attempting to enter Italy without going through the immigration process which is,again in my opinion, unfair that they can just enter freely while others who want to come legally and are doing the immigration process have to wait for acceptance.

[Trumptonium1]

I hope he gets arrested.

This would be so much ammunition to the European populist movement it's insane. Arrested for protecting your country against invaders. The right-wing articles write themselves.

[Kustonia]

No, I'm saying that the captain didn't do his job.

By not following the terms of a restriction that didn't apply to him?

He was the captain of a Coast Guard ship, of course the restrictions apply to him.

[Vassenor]

By not following the terms of a restriction that didn't apply to him?

He was the captain of a Coast Guard ship, of course the restrictions apply to him.

A closure specifically to non-governmental organisation vessels applies to governmental vessels?

[Kustonia]

I don't know the exact process, but I would assume that the captain would've needed to make a decision at some point.

And he decided to take the rescued individuals to Italian soil.

No, because Italy is closed to migrants. Have I not made that fact clear enough?

[Vassenor]

And he decided to take the rescued individuals to Italian soil.

No, because Italy is closed to migrants. Have I not made that fact clear enough?

Italy is closed to NGO vessels carrying migrants, per your own source.