Hypothetical Re: Witch Queen Annie – The Remake

[Kowani]

It’s a bit late at this point. The human mind is not good at change.

then how do you explain the people who used to deal drugs, commit crimes, but then turned to Jesus and all went well thereafter?

...Have you seen prison recidivism rates?

[Infected Mushroom]

then how do you explain the people who used to deal drugs, commit crimes, but then turned to Jesus and all went well thereafter?

...Have you seen prison recidivism rates?

prisoners have already been maltreated/antagonized for an extended period of time

the fact that the rate (recidivism) exists in spite of that shows that there could be a better approach in some cases no?

I mean, the information in the OP shows that while Annie made some bad decisions, there were reasons/possible causes (circumstantial and otherwise); I'm not sure she is beyond the range of redemption

[Kowani]

...Have you seen prison recidivism rates?

prisoners have already been maltreated/antagonized for an extended period of time

the fact that the rate (recidivism) exists in spite of that shows that there could be a better approach in some cases no?

I mean, the information in the OP shows that while Annie made some bad decisions, there were reasons/possible causes (circumstantial and otherwise); I'm not sure she is beyond the range of redemption

Yes. But if you’ll notice, nobody supports rehabilitation for mass murdering psychopaths.

[New Bremerton]

The hypothetical was revised to be just a fantasy realm of an indeterminate time period. Given the reference to an ICJ, I assumed it was the present day.



If she were to express genuine and heartfelt remorse before she is put to death, I might spare her life and uphold the late King's sentence of "community service" for life, or at least make her death less painful. Failing that, she gets what she deserves. Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. In this case, I might have to sacrifice some of my humanity and live with it in order to give Annie the justice she truly deserves.

How do you tell if her expression of remorse is genuine/heartfelt or not?

How will you know?

I'm a mage, remember? I'm well versed in legilimency and occlumency.

[Infected Mushroom]

How do you tell if her expression of remorse is genuine/heartfelt or not?

How will you know?

I'm a mage, remember? I'm well versed in legilimency and occlumency.

That only exists in HP verse

Mind reading/insight is not part of the more restricted powers of this universe

[Infected Mushroom]

prisoners have already been maltreated/antagonized for an extended period of time

the fact that the rate (recidivism) exists in spite of that shows that there could be a better approach in some cases no?

I mean, the information in the OP shows that while Annie made some bad decisions, there were reasons/possible causes (circumstantial and otherwise); I'm not sure she is beyond the range of redemption

Yes. But if you’ll notice, nobody supports rehabilitation for mass murdering psychopaths.

Has she established herself as such based on the OP?

[Kowani]

Yes. But if you’ll notice, nobody supports rehabilitation for mass murdering psychopaths.

Has she established herself as such based on the OP?

Yes.

[Infected Mushroom]

Has she established herself as such based on the OP?

Yes.

Killing civilians and conquering lands doesn’t necessarily make you a psychopath though

[Kowani]

Yes.

Killing civilians and conquering lands doesn’t necessarily make you a psychopath though

No, burning a village a week most certainly will. The human mind is not made for that sort of thing. It’s why soldiers have PTSD, and their actions are nowhere near this scale.

[Infected Mushroom]

Killing civilians and conquering lands doesn’t necessarily make you a psychopath though

No, burning a village a week most certainly will. The human mind is not made for that sort of thing. It’s why soldiers have PTSD, and their actions are nowhere near this scale.

She did it to try and force the English King to surrender

[Kowani]

No, burning a village a week most certainly will. The human mind is not made for that sort of thing. It’s why soldiers have PTSD, and their actions are nowhere near this scale.

She did it to try and force the English King to surrender

That’s not the point. The directly causing of so much death would fuck with ‘er head, regardless of her reasoning.

[Infected Mushroom]

She did it to try and force the English King to surrender

That’s not the point. The directly causing of so much death would fuck with ‘er head, regardless of her reasoning.

at the time she was only focused on the Kalmar's objective of annexing England at all cost; all else, civilian lives etc was not the focus for her

she was also able to distance herself from her actions a bit because she could use large-scale magic to kill people en masse from a distance

...

Think of it as, say, a bomber pilot in WWII on the Allied side tasked with bombing Japan over and over. On a weekly basis they kill lots and lots of people with those air strikes... but it doesn't mess with their minds all that much because they are focused on the importance of winning the war and the technology they are wielding gives them a good distance from the actual suffering

if you insist on Annie being a psychopath, then you're coming close to saying all air force pilots who engage in continued strategic/civilian bombings are also psychopaths (surely not right); historically, people HAVE killed lots and lots of people on a weekly basis (not with magic perhaps, but with other weapons like bomber aircraft)

the fact of the matter is, war makes people do crazy regrettable things, and the more powerful the technology (or in this case, the magic), the more they can distance themselves from the suffering because it just becomes so easy to kill

[Linderman]

People aren't redeemable once they start slaughtering people.

If you help her with the problems that made her like that in the first place, she can change.

So you support rehabilitation/therapy if it had been an available option historically for her??

[Geneviev]

If you help her with the problems that made her like that in the first place, she can change.

So you support rehabilitation/therapy if it had been an available option historically for her??

Definitely, if it had been possible.

[Infected Mushroom]

prisoners have already been maltreated/antagonized for an extended period of time

the fact that the rate (recidivism) exists in spite of that shows that there could be a better approach in some cases no?

I mean, the information in the OP shows that while Annie made some bad decisions, there were reasons/possible causes (circumstantial and otherwise); I'm not sure she is beyond the range of redemption

Yes. But if you’ll notice, nobody supports rehabilitation for mass murdering psychopaths.

BUT YOU SEE????

So you support rehabilitation/therapy if it had been an available option historically for her??

Definitely, if it had been possible.

Therefore, at least one person supports the possibility of rehabilitation even for mass murderers (I do believe in this case, its worth at least CONSIDERING on the facts)

I mean, if you think she's a psychopath, I don't think its clear on the facts of the OP. I think she comes across as a troubled young woman with a traumatic/very troubled childhood.

[Andsed]

Yes. But if you’ll notice, nobody supports rehabilitation for mass murdering psychopaths.

BUT YOU SEE????

Definitely, if it had been possible.

Therefore, at least one person supports the possibility of rehabilitation even for mass murderers (I do believe in this case, its worth at least CONSIDERING on the facts)

I mean, if you think she's a psychopath, I don't think its clear on the facts of the OP. I think she comes across as a troubled young woman with a traumatic/very troubled childhood.

Oh boo hoo hoo Annie had a tragic childhood that is totally a justification for massive scale murder. Even by medieval standards destroying entire towns is way to far. Looting and pillaging sure. Murdering all the people there rarely ever happened. She destroyed who knows how many towns (how many weeks did it take for you to confront Annie BTW) and kill massive amounts of innocent. Annie does not deserve mercy and I would shed no tears for her execution.

[Geneviev]

BUT YOU SEE????



Therefore, at least one person supports the possibility of rehabilitation even for mass murderers (I do believe in this case, its worth at least CONSIDERING on the facts)

I mean, if you think she's a psychopath, I don't think its clear on the facts of the OP. I think she comes across as a troubled young woman with a traumatic/very troubled childhood.

Oh boo hoo hoo Annie had a tragic childhood that is totally a justification for massive scale murder. Even by medieval standards destroying entire towns is way to far. Looting and pillaging sure. Murdering all the people there rarely ever happened. She destroyed who knows how many towns (how many weeks did it take for you to confront Annie BTW) and kill massive amounts of innocent. Annie does not deserve mercy and I would shed no tears for her execution.

According to the Bible, she does deserve mercy. Not to mention the fact that she is probably traumatized by her childhood and it wouldn't be right to not give her another chance.

[Infected Mushroom]

BUT YOU SEE????



Therefore, at least one person supports the possibility of rehabilitation even for mass murderers (I do believe in this case, its worth at least CONSIDERING on the facts)

I mean, if you think she's a psychopath, I don't think its clear on the facts of the OP. I think she comes across as a troubled young woman with a traumatic/very troubled childhood.

Oh boo hoo hoo Annie had a tragic childhood that is totally a justification for massive scale murder. Even by medieval standards destroying entire towns is way to far. Looting and pillaging sure. Murdering all the people there rarely ever happened. She destroyed who knows how many towns (how many weeks did it take for you to confront Annie BTW) and kill massive amounts of innocent. Annie does not deserve mercy and I would shed no tears for her execution.

With regards to your question, I think it was intended to take a little over 1 year to defeat Annie from the start of her invasion. Why do you ask?

I'm not sure her childhood provides Justification per say, but it does provide context and other factors to be considered. Looting and pillaging was also conducted by her armies (to help finance the invasion); the burning up of entire towns by magic was basically a medieval A bomb tactic. It is, fundamentally, not too different from what the US forces did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Its basically Annie, with no A bomb but instead wielding powerful magic, saying: "if you do not surrender, I will destroy 1 settlement every week."

There is no Japanese surrender in this timeline but its a historical parallel to the Americans using nuclear power to force the Japanese Emperor's hand. Here, Annie is hoping that the English King would surrender rather than letting her destroy more cities or that the English people will see that the Gods favour her side and will recognise her reign over the English King.

[Infected Mushroom]

Oh boo hoo hoo Annie had a tragic childhood that is totally a justification for massive scale murder. Even by medieval standards destroying entire towns is way to far. Looting and pillaging sure. Murdering all the people there rarely ever happened. She destroyed who knows how many towns (how many weeks did it take for you to confront Annie BTW) and kill massive amounts of innocent. Annie does not deserve mercy and I would shed no tears for her execution.

According to the Bible, she does deserve mercy. Not to mention the fact that she is probably traumatized by her childhood and it wouldn't be right to not give her another chance.

Throughout much of her early life, Annie acts calm, collected, and polite. A sort of, quiet and timid court woman. However, underneath all of that there is an ever growing layer of darkness and burning hatred for those who have wronged her. Occasionally some of that comes out but most of the time she remains calm, very much caught up in the performance.

There is no doubt that her unfortunate childhood heavily influenced her later actions.

Throughout most of the campaign, she acts very cam and collected as well but occasionally flies into screaming rage and terror when things go wrong.

[Geneviev]

According to the Bible, she does deserve mercy. Not to mention the fact that she is probably traumatized by her childhood and it wouldn't be right to not give her another chance.

Throughout much of her early life, Annie acts calm, collected, and polite. A sort of, quiet and timid court woman. However, underneath all of that there is an ever growing layer of darkness and burning hatred for those who have wronged her. Occasionally some of that comes out but most of the time she remains calm, very much caught up in the performance.

There is no doubt that her unfortunate childhood heavily influenced her later actions.

Throughout most of the campaign, she acts very cam and collected as well but occasionally flies into screaming rage and terror when things go wrong.

That does fit with my theory that what she does isn't really her fault. She deserves sympathy more than anything else.

[Kowani]

Oh boo hoo hoo Annie had a tragic childhood that is totally a justification for massive scale murder. Even by medieval standards destroying entire towns is way to far. Looting and pillaging sure. Murdering all the people there rarely ever happened. She destroyed who knows how many towns (how many weeks did it take for you to confront Annie BTW) and kill massive amounts of innocent. Annie does not deserve mercy and I would shed no tears for her execution.

With regards to your question, I think it was intended to take a little over 1 year to defeat Annie from the start of her invasion. Why do you ask?

I'm not sure her childhood provides Justification per say, but it does provide context and other factors to be considered. Looting and pillaging was also conducted by her armies (to help finance the invasion); the burning up of entire towns by magic was basically a medieval A bomb tactic. It is, fundamentally, not too different from what the US forces did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Its basically Annie, with no A bomb but instead wielding powerful magic, saying: "if you do not surrender, I will destroy 1 settlement every week."

There is no Japanese surrender in this timeline but its a historical parallel to the Americans using nuclear power to force the Japanese Emperor's hand. Here, Annie is hoping that the English King would surrender rather than letting her destroy more cities or that the English people will see that the Gods favour her side and will recognise her reign over the English King.

Well, that’s not true in the slightest.

[Infected Mushroom]

With regards to your question, I think it was intended to take a little over 1 year to defeat Annie from the start of her invasion. Why do you ask?

I'm not sure her childhood provides Justification per say, but it does provide context and other factors to be considered. Looting and pillaging was also conducted by her armies (to help finance the invasion); the burning up of entire towns by magic was basically a medieval A bomb tactic. It is, fundamentally, not too different from what the US forces did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Its basically Annie, with no A bomb but instead wielding powerful magic, saying: "if you do not surrender, I will destroy 1 settlement every week."

There is no Japanese surrender in this timeline but its a historical parallel to the Americans using nuclear power to force the Japanese Emperor's hand. Here, Annie is hoping that the English King would surrender rather than letting her destroy more cities or that the English people will see that the Gods favour her side and will recognise her reign over the English King.

Well, that’s not true in the slightest.

There are parallels to be drawn. Making demands (asking for unconditional surrender) while directly/indirectly threatening a nation with continued destruction has plenty of precedent.

[Kowani]

Well, that’s not true in the slightest.

There are parallels to be drawn. Making demands (asking for unconditional surrender) while directly/indirectly threatening a nation with continued destruction has plenty of precedent.

So, various points. Unconditional surrender had been demanded long before the bombs were even developed. Secondly, the bombs targeted centers of industrial production that were actively aiding the war effort. The villages Annie targeted were not. They were certifiably under her power. Thirdly, the precedent you’re speaking of is literally medieval or massed warfare. Precision strikes were the name of the game, not senseless mass destruction. Even in WWI and WWII, the destruction was due to the size of the armies, not direct policy, and especially not on conquered territory. This is just bad strategy.

[Ethereal Expanse]

I think this boils down is Justice /punishment more important than the law. When I think of Paladin I think Lawful and Good. Even thought it is comfortable jail cell it is still a cell. The 15th century equivalent of Club Fed. She is still stripped of her powers she in effect a toothless dragon. Besides this leaves the door open for her to attempt escape and when she is the outside she is fair game. Turn her over to the ICJ for their sentence is my choice. Why should the people of England suffer more they have already been through enough? Dragging her throught the mud will not bring back lost cities all you can is rebuild

[Ethereal Expanse]

Just to come to the Witch's defense in a time of war there are no such think as civilians. Besides they were not civilians they were collaborators. They could have just turned the king over and done away with all this unpleasentness. True Lawful Evil move but it hard to prove intent. What did she do that was truly Evil?