Hypothetical Re: Witch Queen Annie – The Remake

[Infected Mushroom]

but what about the damage that this causes to the authority, integrity, and precedential effectiveness of international law (even though its clearly flawed in the OP, its at least a start and the foundation is there)?

i think people are going to remember that she "died in an accident" even though the ICJ wanted something else... not that the ICJ's ruling technically stood but was unenforced

people are going to trust international law even less and when its going to be needed in the future, the infrastructure would have been damaged

Well seeing as these laws would have give a mass murder war criminal a slap on the wrist the ICJ losing power may not be all that much of bad thing.

I get the feeling that Annie is still going to be quite miserable on that island even with undeserved things.

Napoleon had a very unhappy time in exile under similar conditions.

[Woodfiredpizzas]

I just want to control the distribution of potatoes, the rest is all time filler.

I see...

Would you take a potato chip... AND EAT IT???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQ0V_JIVAU

^

Anime is trash. I don’t enjoy it at all

[The Huskar Social Union]

I just want to control the distribution of potatoes, the rest is all time filler.

I see...

Would you take a potato chip... AND EAT IT???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQ0V_JIVAU

^

The fuck is this anime shite?

[Alvecia]

I see...

Would you take a potato chip... AND EAT IT???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLQ0V_JIVAU

^

The fuck is this anime shite?

Anime shite

[Risottia]

Nah, it'll just be another White Ship.

but everyone except Annie escaped? that's too obvious no?

Well, of course it would be too obvious. That's why you kill off all survivors. No witnesses.

[Risottia]

As for politically, she's going to lose a lot of credibility as a threat once she's been marched all over the country and forced to perform this song and dance of repentance for weeks on end

or at least that's what the English sentence in part hopes to accomplish ...

Nah, there will always be someone who uses her as a flag.
That's why I'd have her sentenced (by someone else!), discreetly killed, and then I'd have also some doubles of her pop up here and there, just to foil those investigating Annie's "disappearance" and to make her followers surface. Just so I know who they are, where they are... in case they need some discreet killing, too.

[Infected Mushroom]

but everyone except Annie escaped? that's too obvious no?

Well, of course it would be too obvious. That's why you kill off all survivors. No witnesses.

So what you’re telling me is that your plan is

1. “Agree to ICJ” after extracting as much political/economic concessions from others as realistically possible
2. Arrange to have a conspiracy to kill Annie with all members sworn to secrecy
3. Arrange to have your members drown Annie while en route to said island/handover to ICJ and make it look like a shipwreck
4. Then pay a contract killer (some kind of royal assassin) to kill all the sworn members so they can’t spill secrets
(Were you planning to hire another contract killer to kill that killer too?????)

This is entering really dark territory

That’s a lot if killing just to take vengeance on a powerless witch

[Infected Mushroom]

As for politically, she's going to lose a lot of credibility as a threat once she's been marched all over the country and forced to perform this song and dance of repentance for weeks on end

or at least that's what the English sentence in part hopes to accomplish ...

Nah, there will always be someone who uses her as a flag.
That's why I'd have her sentenced (by someone else!), discreetly killed, and then I'd have also some doubles of her pop up here and there, just to foil those investigating Annie's "disappearance" and to make her followers surface. Just so I know who they are, where they are... in case they need some discreet killing, too.

But after getting publically humbled for a few weeks/months with the English sentence... wouldn’t she be considered damaged goods? Would she still be a rallying point?

[Heloin]

Well, of course it would be too obvious. That's why you kill off all survivors. No witnesses.

So what you’re telling me is that your plan is

1. “Agree to ICJ” after extracting as much political/economic concessions from others as realistically possible
2. Arrange to have a conspiracy to kill Annie with all members sworn to secrecy
3. Arrange to have your members drown Annie while en route to said island/handover to ICJ and make it look like a shipwreck
4. Then pay a contract killer (some kind of royal assassin) to kill all the sworn members so they can’t spill secrets
(Were you planning to hire another contract killer to kill that killer too?????)

Yes.
Yes.
Sort of, I personally sabotage the life boats since in order for the accident to seem real they'll have to get caught in a storm. And every sworn member to the conspiracy has to be on the boat except me. Then they all drown.
Nope.

This is entering really dark territory

Not any darker then it already was.

That’s a lot if killing just to take vengeance on a powerless witch

No, she's a murderer, war criminal, and all around dick.

[Risottia]

Well, of course it would be too obvious. That's why you kill off all survivors. No witnesses.

So what you’re telling me is that your plan is

1. “Agree to ICJ” after extracting as much political/economic concessions from others as realistically possible
2. Arrange to have a conspiracy to kill Annie with all members sworn to secrecy
3. Arrange to have your members drown Annie while en route to said island/handover to ICJ and make it look like a shipwreck

Nonono, the shipwreck-no-witnesses part is just a modification to another poster's idea.

My idea is:
1.Agree to ICJ after extracting all benefits possible. Inform the faeries and grant them that measures will be taken.
2.Have her sentenced to whatever the ICJ does, all while protesting rather evidently for the excessive leniency but acknowledging publicly and grudgingly the ICJ jurisdiction on the case, for the sake of the international understanding and whatnot.
3.Let the storm settle down. One or two years.
4.Create some minor turmoil with doubles of Annie and voices about her upcoming liberation in the KU. Even set up some fake "Kalmar Resistance", "Kalmar Independence Front", "Kalmar Rebel Organisation", you know...
5.Send the equivalent of the SBS/SAS (which includes somefairies, just to please them) to "liberate" Annie, leave no survivors in the prisons, take Annie away, kill her and destroy the evidence. Of course, the members of the commando will be sent on suicidal missions afterwards (well, not telling them those are suicidal missions...), OR, if possible, magically geased so they forget the matter (I'd rather keep such useful soldiers alive...) .
6.Wait until the disappearance of Annie is discovered and react with anger at the ICJ and their incompetence, so to extract further benefits from them.
7.Continue sporadically with the false flags and the doubles in the KU, and have the topmost Anniesists (eh!) discreetly killed, or framed for pedophilia, zoophilia, pineappleonpizzaphilia, whatever.

We end up with the fairies happy, those asking for harsher measures angry at the ICJ, the ICJ aligned more strongly with me, and Annie and her followers a problem no more. With a minimal loss of life compared to a war - especially to the last one.

I'd like to think that Niccolò Machiavelli would approve.

[New Bremerton]

First of all, fuck international law, both IRL and in this hypothetical. Secondly, I find the late King's sentence to be far too lenient, given that this witch is guilty of many counts of genocide. Officially, I would uphold the King's sentence. In practice, Annie Holstadt would be "kidnapped" by unidentified "hooded thugs" unaffiliated with the state and publicly tortured to death in front of cheering spectators (who no doubt would livestream the entire spectacle online), and a magical ritual would be carried out to send her straight to hell to burn for all eternity. If England's political and economic isolation is what it takes to regain our dignity and ensure that REAL justice is done, so be it. The rights of the millions of English people who fell victim to her genocidal whims trumps the so-called right of such a vile and despicable individual to even be allowed to breathe the air we breathe. Her slow and excruciating death is the least she deserves for all the people she's killed, although I clearly would have nothing to do with any of it.

I would also invade and occupy the Kalmar Union in order to de-Nazify and rehabilitate that nation economically and politically, rebuilding it into a powerful ally. Anyone from the deposed Witch Queen's regime found guilty of war crimes against the English people would be tried and publicly executed. The Kalmar Union would eventually be allowed to regain its sovereignty after a few years. IRL, this would be analogous to the Allied occupation and rehabilitation of Germany and Japan, and the trials and executions of war criminals, after WWII. Both countries are now wealthy and geopolitically aligned with the West.

Finally, I would personally order the MI6 to covertly hunt down and assassinate any fugitives residing abroad one by one, thereby striking fear into those who would dare mess with the English people. His Majesty's Government would neither confirm nor deny any involvement. This is analogous IRL to Israel's Operation Wrath of God, a covert Mossad op to systematically hunt down and assassinate those responsible for the cowardly massacre of 11 Israeli athletes in Munich in 1972.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

but is it not a violation of international law and human rights ???

---

Human rights is just words to me

[The New California Republic]

I realise I haven't actually responded to the scenario yet, but it's because I'm being a sneaky bastard by posting while at work, so long replies are out of the question just now. I'll post when I finish work though.

Forgot to post.

Right, so she is going round assisting with the reconstruction work? Well, I guess we could send her to a construction site and accidentally drop a chimney stack on her head. I'd like to see the magical folk reconstruct Annie when she a bloody mess crushed into the ground.

Alternatively, leave the window to her cell unlocked, and a smooth criminal will sneak in and she will run under the table but he will strike her. Then she will run into the bedroom, but she will be struck down, sealing her doom.

Phone call from the ICJ: Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay?
So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?

[The Horror Channel]

I'd kill her and anyone still sympathetic to her cause.

[Infected Mushroom]

I realise I haven't actually responded to the scenario yet, but it's because I'm being a sneaky bastard by posting while at work, so long replies are out of the question just now. I'll post when I finish work though.

Forgot to post.

Right, so she is going round assisting with the reconstruction work? Well, I guess we could send her to a construction site and accidentally drop a chimney stack on her head. I'd like to see the magical folk reconstruct Annie when she a bloody mess crushed into the ground.

Alternatively, leave the window to her cell unlocked, and a smooth criminal will sneak in and she will run under the table but he will strike her. Then she will run into the bedroom, but she will be struck down, sealing her doom.

Phone call from the ICJ: Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay?
So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?

they wouldn't be able to reconstruct her; if the damage is completely and instantly lethal, she dies

but why bother killing her though? why is it important that she dies? Is not the existing English sentence cruel enough? An eternal cycle of dungeons, forced labour, and public humiliation backed up by the use of torture?

[The New California Republic]

Forgot to post.

Right, so she is going round assisting with the reconstruction work? Well, I guess we could send her to a construction site and accidentally drop a chimney stack on her head. I'd like to see the magical folk reconstruct Annie when she a bloody mess crushed into the ground.

Alternatively, leave the window to her cell unlocked, and a smooth criminal will sneak in and she will run under the table but he will strike her. Then she will run into the bedroom, but she will be struck down, sealing her doom.

Phone call from the ICJ: Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay? So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie? Annie, are you okay?
So, Annie, are you okay? Are you okay, Annie?

they wouldn't be able to reconstruct her; if the damage is completely and instantly lethal, she dies

but why bother killing her though? why is it important that she dies? Is not the existing English sentence cruel enough? An eternal cycle of dungeons, forced labour, and public humiliation backed up by the use of torture?

The ICJ is probably going to keep stirring the pot until she is either handed over or until it doesn't become an issue anymore.

[Sovaal]

Id hand her over to the Others to deal with.

Oh shit you’re telling me this isn’t ASoIF fan fiction?

[Infected Mushroom]

Id hand her over to the Others to deal with.

Oh shit you’re telling me this isn’t ASoIF fan fiction?

The Others?

Would they be terrorising Scotland if they were incorporated?

London would be King's Landing or something?

Nah its a different universe.

[Infected Mushroom]

they wouldn't be able to reconstruct her; if the damage is completely and instantly lethal, she dies

but why bother killing her though? why is it important that she dies? Is not the existing English sentence cruel enough? An eternal cycle of dungeons, forced labour, and public humiliation backed up by the use of torture?

The ICJ is probably going to keep stirring the pot until she is either handed over or until it doesn't become an issue anymore.

The ICJ would realistically be making a lot of noise for a while. But eventually it will become one of those things like the Taiwan Independence issue or the unsolved DMZ problem... it will be formally there but no one will be expected to do anything beyond maintaining formal lines

in fact, the sanctions against England would eventually go because England is too important/powerful not to trade with

I mean let's be honest, there are probably better people to use as the mascots/posterchildren for human rights and high born rights etc than Annie Holstadt

I'm not sure she needs to be killed

[Kowani]

Nominally send her to the ICJ. Just have the ship sink while in transit. Of course, she’ll be shackled to the bottom of the boat, and the crew must be entirely English and loyal to me. Preferably made of individuals whose villages were destroyed by Annie, or ruthless torturers with no sense of honor.Fuck the ICJ with a poleaxe, and fuck nobility with it afterwards.

[Infected Mushroom]

Nominally send her to the ICJ. Just have the ship sink while in transit. Of course, she’ll be shackled to the bottom of the boat, and the crew must be entirely English and loyal to me. Preferably made of individuals whose villages were destroyed by Annie, or ruthless torturers with no sense of honor.Fuck the ICJ with a poleaxe, and fuck nobility with it afterwards.

this is the third time this has been suggested I think

so many people wanting to shipwreck the Witch Queen... =(

you don't think either sentence is harsh enough?

[Infected Mushroom]

First of all, fuck international law, both IRL and in this hypothetical. Secondly, I find the late King's sentence to be far too lenient, given that this witch is guilty of many counts of genocide. Officially, I would uphold the King's sentence. In practice, Annie Holstadt would be "kidnapped" by unidentified "hooded thugs" unaffiliated with the state and publicly tortured to death in front of cheering spectators (who no doubt would livestream the entire spectacle online), and a magical ritual would be carried out to send her straight to hell to burn for all eternity. If England's political and economic isolation is what it takes to regain our dignity and ensure that REAL justice is done, so be it. The rights of the millions of English people who fell victim to her genocidal whims trumps the so-called right of such a vile and despicable individual to even be allowed to breathe the air we breathe. Her slow and excruciating death is the least she deserves for all the people she's killed, although I clearly would have nothing to do with any of it.

I would also invade and occupy the Kalmar Union in order to de-Nazify and rehabilitate that nation economically and politically, rebuilding it into a powerful ally. Anyone from the deposed Witch Queen's regime found guilty of war crimes against the English people would be tried and publicly executed. The Kalmar Union would eventually be allowed to regain its sovereignty after a few years. IRL, this would be analogous to the Allied occupation and rehabilitation of Germany and Japan, and the trials and executions of war criminals, after WWII. Both countries are now wealthy and geopolitically aligned with the West.

Finally, I would personally order the MI6 to covertly hunt down and assassinate any fugitives residing abroad one by one, thereby striking fear into those who would dare mess with the English people. His Majesty's Government would neither confirm nor deny any involvement. This is analogous IRL to Israel's Operation Wrath of God, a covert Mossad op to systematically hunt down and assassinate those responsible for the cowardly massacre of 11 Israeli athletes in Munich in 1972.

Well its well articulated and well argued/supported. I don't entirely agree but at least its a solid position.

By the way, I think you've just inspired the next next thread with this post... many thanks!

[Kowani]

Nominally send her to the ICJ. Just have the ship sink while in transit. Of course, she’ll be shackled to the bottom of the boat, and the crew must be entirely English and loyal to me. Preferably made of individuals whose villages were destroyed by Annie, or ruthless torturers with no sense of honor.Fuck the ICJ with a poleaxe, and fuck nobility with it afterwards.

this is the third time this has been suggested I think

so many people wanting to shipwreck the Witch Queen... =(

you don't think either sentence is harsh enough?

I shipwreck her because I don’t want to be directly connected to the death. It’s the 15th century, who’s gonna investigate a shipwreck?

But fuck no. Public humiliation is good and all, but this witch has killed so many people that she no longer deserves life. Additionally, we’d have to keep her alive, which is a drain on the treasury. Small? Yes. Insignificant? Yes. Yet a monster does not deserve to be kept alive by the sweat of others.

In the meantime, while everyone’s distracted by her death, I can plot my rise to complete control of England, even after the heir comes of age.

[Infected Mushroom]

this is the third time this has been suggested I think

so many people wanting to shipwreck the Witch Queen... =(

you don't think either sentence is harsh enough?

I shipwreck her because I don’t want to be directly connected to the death. It’s the 15th century, who’s gonna investigate a shipwreck?

But fuck no. Public humiliation is good and all, but this witch has killed so many people that she no longer deserves life. Additionally, we’d have to keep her alive, which is a drain on the treasury. Small? Yes. Insignificant? Yes. Yet a monster does not deserve to be kept alive by the sweat of others.

In the meantime, while everyone’s distracted by her death, I can plot my rise to complete control of England, even after the heir comes of age.

so then do you support the death penalty in real life?

[Kowani]

I shipwreck her because I don’t want to be directly connected to the death. It’s the 15th century, who’s gonna investigate a shipwreck?

But fuck no. Public humiliation is good and all, but this witch has killed so many people that she no longer deserves life. Additionally, we’d have to keep her alive, which is a drain on the treasury. Small? Yes. Insignificant? Yes. Yet a monster does not deserve to be kept alive by the sweat of others.

In the meantime, while everyone’s distracted by her death, I can plot my rise to complete control of England, even after the heir comes of age.

so then do you support the death penalty in real life?

We don’t tend to have genocidal maniacs anymore. There are some, don’t get me wrong, but not very many.