Hypothetical Re: Witch Queen Annie – The Remake

[Diopolis]

Simply ignore the question. The boy king learns to hunt, fight, ride, and possibly to do magic, and England becomes a powerful state with an immense army of sing-song kids.

[Infected Mushroom]

Okay that’s true

But this is an alternate 15th century with strange somewhat quasi modern sensibilities

Let’s say you viewed this English sentence through more modern eyes, is it inhumane?

Then don't set it in 15th century Europe. Make it a fantasy world, there problem solved.

And the punishment that's basically a normal prison sentence? Stop the presses! She's in the modern idea of a jail!

You know what

You’re right

Standby

[Infected Mushroom]

Okay that’s true

But this is an alternate 15th century with strange somewhat quasi modern sensibilities

Let’s say you viewed this English sentence through more modern eyes, is it inhumane?

Then don't set it in 15th century Europe. Make it a fantasy world, there problem solved.

And the punishment that's basically a normal prison sentence? Stop the presses! She's in the modern idea of a jail!

I’ve removed references of the 15th century, it’s now entirely fictional

I think her punishment differs from the modern jail in many ways

1. You’re forced to work 6 days a week (hence, forced labor) on property you’ve destroyed
2. The whole public prayer and confession routine in addition to frequent contact with the people you victimized is clearly designed to shame
3. The use/threat of torture against you if you don’t comply

My understanding is that with a modern jail, you’re mostly left alone and there is no forced labour. Dealing with the other inmates and the rest of the prison population is a big problem.

Torture isn’t used anymore, the worst gig is that you’re thrown in solitary. Any abuse you suffer is at least officially, outside the system. There’s less emphasis on public shaming.

Here, it’s a never ending cycle of public shaming, outdoor labour to “pay back” the people, and repentance performances

Not to mention you were once a powerful high born witch but now you’re being treated like this and have no more magic. The whole thing must be worse than being burnt at the stake I think

[Infected Mushroom]

TL;DR

What takes precedence, national law or international law?

Thank you kind citizen. And honestly I think it depends. If the person in question has committed the same crime across multiple nations then international law should apply.

In this case there was an invasion of England

[Infected Mushroom]

I'd just kill the bitch, fuck the ICJ. People like that don't deserve to live, and I'm not a sadist so as to torture her forever. Dagger through the brain and be done with it.

Also...

magical trumpet and drum kids

Fuck are those?

they are a race of music-loving/playing but extremely immature and annoying little magical kids; they wear coloured bonnets on their head

I mean, you might find them adorable I don't know

wherever they go, whether into battle or just walking around, they play happy up-beat child brainwashing tunes like those from children television programs to the best of their ability

[Cetacea]

I really enjoyed this read IM, much better than your previous work, you should do more fantasy scenarios.

I’d hand Annie over to the fairy folk and then disavow any involvement as the fairy people are a distinct sovereign people not subject to English laws and not bound by international treaties. As they are a free sovereign people there is nothing England can do that would not violate their independence

[Infected Mushroom]

I really enjoyed this read IM, much better than your previous work, you should do more fantasy scenarios.

I’d hand Ann over to the fairy folk and then disavow any involvement as the fairy people are a distinct sovereign people not subject to English laws and not bound by international treaties. As they are a free sovereign people there is nothing England can do that would not violate their independence

I see...

I’m glad you like it?

What about this setup makes it better then other ops/scenarios

By the way, your solution is an interesting loophole I did not think about

[Linderman]

If only she were French.

Jeanne D'arc, anyone?

You mean Joan of Arc?

but Joan is benevolent no ?

[Ifreann]

As Protector of England, I will cut off the King's head with the crown still on it, and deliver justice to the witch by the law of the Commonwealth of England; that is to say, she will be beheaded as well.

cromwell pls go and stay go

[The Blaatschapen]

If only she were French.

Jeanne D'arc, anyone?

You mean Joan of Arc?

but Joan is benevolent no ?

I mean Jeanne d'Arc. I use the French name. But yes, same person.

Not sure if she is benevolent. The hundred years war has no clear cut 'good' side. Just a victorious one.

[Risottia]

...

I want to meet your pusher.

Apart from that, I'd pull a rather classical trick. Have her sent to Geneva, sentenced to a comfy exile - but only after a long bargain where the remnants of the KU will be forced to pay England huge war debts for, let's say, half a century.

Then, after a while, she'll just disappear from her prison-mansion without leaving a trace. I'll be entirely outraged at the incompetence of the Geneva dudes and ask for further reparations on behalf of England (I always thought the Lofoten, the Svalbard, the Faer Oer and Jan Mayen would complement the Shetlands, the Hebrides and the Orkneys rather fine), and a bigger say at Geneva.

They won't suspect that the MI7 has anything to do with Witch Queen Annie's "escape". Which, of course, ended with her limp body torn apart by dragons and the pieces dumped into many different erupting volcanoes.

MWAH. AH. AH. AH.

[Infected Mushroom]

...

I want to meet your pusher.

Apart from that, I'd pull a rather classical trick. Have her sent to Geneva, sentenced to a comfy exile - but only after a long bargain where the remnants of the KU will be forced to pay England huge war debts for, let's say, half a century.

Then, after a while, she'll just disappear from her prison-mansion without leaving a trace. I'll be entirely outraged at the incompetence of the Geneva dudes and ask for further reparations on behalf of England (I always thought the Lofoten, the Svalbard, the Faer Oer and Jan Mayen would complement the Shetlands, the Hebrides and the Orkneys rather fine), and a bigger say at Geneva.

They won't suspect that the MI7 has anything to do with Witch Queen Annie's "escape". Which, of course, ended with her limp body torn apart by dragons and the pieces dumped into many different erupting volcanoes.

MWAH. AH. AH. AH.

it appears that many posters want to find a way to kill poor Annie =(

is the English sentence not harsh enough? =(

a lifetime of dungeon nights, forced "restitutional" labour in public, extended Sunday public prayer and confession/repentance sessions, and permanent contact with potentially sadistic pixies, fairies, and other magical creatures? When I wrote it I thought it was a true nightmare

[Linderman]

You mean Joan of Arc?

but Joan is benevolent no ?

I mean Jeanne d'Arc. I use the French name. But yes, same person.

Not sure if she is benevolent. The hundred years war has no clear cut 'good' side. Just a victorious one.

oh

okay

m bad

[Infected Mushroom]

As Protector of England, I will cut off the King's head with the crown still on it, and deliver justice to the witch by the law of the Commonwealth of England; that is to say, she will be beheaded as well.

cromwell pls go and stay go

what do you say to the reasonableness of both/either sentences in the OP?

it was intended that the English sentence was unduly/over-harsh (by modern standards) but the the international law solution was too lax

but from the reads so far, I'm not sure that came across very well

[Risottia]

it appears that many posters want to find a way to kill poor Annie =(

is the English sentence not harsh enough? =(

No it's actually a fine sentence, and not cruel at all, plus it's useful to have a magic user doing some restitution work.
But hey, the façade must be kept, and international consensus is important. About as important as being sure that Queenie Annie doesn't get uppity again - or that any of her previous followers do.
And in the end, enemy leaders make for wonderful tools to manipulate others. Just remember, after you use a tool, you dispose of it properly lest other people learn your tricks.

[Infected Mushroom]

it appears that many posters want to find a way to kill poor Annie =(

is the English sentence not harsh enough? =(

No it's actually a fine sentence, and not cruel at all, plus it's useful to have a magic user doing some restitution work.
But hey, the façade must be kept, and international consensus is important. About as important as being sure that Queenie Annie doesn't get uppity again - or that any of her previous followers do.
And in the end, enemy leaders make for wonderful tools to manipulate others. Just remember, after you use a tool, you dispose of it properly lest other people learn your tricks.

she lost her magical powers

After the battle, the tiny magical creatures surround Annie to perform a powerful magical ritual. All of her vast magical power and potential is 100% drained and removed so that she can no longer terrorize the land.

sorry for super long OP

if she still had magic I think both sentences would be too unsafe for the public because it took so much effort to take her down with magic in the first place

your approach sound like it could be used in a pragmatic Game of Thrones style real life manoeuvre

[Andsed]

My plan is simple. I would agree to send Annie back under guard of my best and most loyal men. But as she was being transported across the channel we would kill her and then sink the ship. We would then say the incident was an accident where the ship capsized but luckily everyone got but not Annie who was being kept in maximum security and thus we could not save her. This will allow us to follow international law and deliver justice to Annie.

[Cetacea]

I really enjoyed this read IM, much better than your previous work, you should do more fantasy scenarios.

I’d hand Ann over to the fairy folk and then disavow any involvement as the fairy people are a distinct sovereign people not subject to English laws and not bound by international treaties. As they are a free sovereign people there is nothing England can do that would not violate their independence

I see...

I’m glad you like it?

What about this setup makes it better then other ops/scenarios

By the way, your solution is an interesting loophole I did not think about

My solution does 3 things

1 It maintains the punishment of former Witch Queen Annie
2 It appeases the Fairy People who are already an ally (with powerful magic) providing humanitarian aid to my country
3 It distances England from culpability

if the Witch Queen is not in our custody then any sanctions imposed by the ICJ against England are illegal, England is an innocent victim in need of restitution and humanitarian aid

all these bloodthirsty posters wanting to summarily kill the former Witch Queen Annie is mind-boggling

[Chan Island]

I really enjoyed this read IM, much better than your previous work, you should do more fantasy scenarios.

I’d hand Annie over to the fairy folk and then disavow any involvement as the fairy people are a distinct sovereign people not subject to English laws and not bound by international treaties. As they are a free sovereign people there is nothing England can do that would not violate their independence

That is actually an extremely good choice. Not only does this sidestep the question as to what England's obligations are, it would also be a token of goodwill towards a people who were valuable allies in the war. I'd do this.

[Risottia]

No it's actually a fine sentence, and not cruel at all, plus it's useful to have a magic user doing some restitution work.
But hey, the façade must be kept, and international consensus is important. About as important as being sure that Queenie Annie doesn't get uppity again - or that any of her previous followers do.
And in the end, enemy leaders make for wonderful tools to manipulate others. Just remember, after you use a tool, you dispose of it properly lest other people learn your tricks.

she lost her magical powers

After the battle, the tiny magical creatures surround Annie to perform a powerful magical ritual. All of her vast magical power and potential is 100% drained and removed so that she can no longer terrorize the land.

sorry for super long OP

if she still had magic I think both sentences would be too unsafe for the public because it took so much effort to take her down with magic in the first place

your approach sound like it could be used in a pragmatic Game of Thrones style real life manoeuvre

I take that last line as a compliment.

Also, about her losing her powers, well, she still could have followers at large who could undo that if they got her alive (or dead and resurrectable, or undead), so, better safe than sorry, especially if we get a bonus. She's basically a menace equivalent to a Hitler anyway, so...

[Infected Mushroom]

I see...

I’m glad you like it?

What about this setup makes it better then other ops/scenarios

By the way, your solution is an interesting loophole I did not think about

My solution does 3 things

1 It maintains the punishment of former Witch Queen Annie
2 It appeases the Fairy People who are already an ally (with powerful magic) providing humanitarian aid to my country
3 It distances England from culpability

if the Witch Queen is not in our custody then any sanctions imposed by the ICJ against England are illegal, England is an innocent victim in need of restitution and humanitarian aid

all these bloodthirsty posters wanting to summarily kill the former Witch Queen Annie is mind-boggling

Your solution is fairly pragmatic.

the irony of others wanting to kill Annie is that in my view (and I don't know if anyone agrees with this), a sudden and quick death (by arrows, drowning, or a sword) is actually probably preferable to a lifetime of dungeons, being escorted by fairies to do work with your hands on property you've destroyed, and then being forced to pray and make repeated public admissions of guilt every Sunday... I mean, it sounds like a repeating cycle of total pain, especially for someone who was previously used to the lifestyle of a high born (all of this under the threat of torture)

if anything, they are sparring her a ton of extended psychological pain

[Infected Mushroom]

she lost her magical powers



sorry for super long OP

if she still had magic I think both sentences would be too unsafe for the public because it took so much effort to take her down with magic in the first place

your approach sound like it could be used in a pragmatic Game of Thrones style real life manoeuvre

I take that last line as a compliment.

Also, about her losing her powers, well, she still could have followers at large who could undo that if they got her alive (or dead and resurrectable, or undead), so, better safe than sorry, especially if we get a bonus. She's basically a menace equivalent to a Hitler anyway, so...

in the world of the hypothetical, magic can be removed forever and can never be restored (in fact, no one except a tiny tiny circle of elite fairies, pixies, and magical creatures even understands how this super arcane magical removal thing works)

Magically, she's no longer a threat

As for politically, she's going to lose a lot of credibility as a threat once she's been marched all over the country and forced to perform this song and dance of repentance for weeks on end

or at least that's what the English sentence in part hopes to accomplish

Meanwhile, someone else would sit on the Kalmar Union's throne and they wouldn't even really want her back

[Infected Mushroom]

My plan is simple. I would agree to send Annie back under guard of my best and most loyal men. But as she was being transported across the channel we would kill her and then sink the ship. We would then say the incident was an accident where the ship capsized but luckily everyone got but not Annie who was being kept in maximum security and thus we could not save her. This will allow us to follow international law and deliver justice to Annie.

LOL

but you don't think the international community will put two and two together?

[Andsed]

My plan is simple. I would agree to send Annie back under guard of my best and most loyal men. But as she was being transported across the channel we would kill her and then sink the ship. We would then say the incident was an accident where the ship capsized but luckily everyone got but not Annie who was being kept in maximum security and thus we could not save her. This will allow us to follow international law and deliver justice to Annie.

LOL

but you don't think the international community will put two and two together?

Sure they might realize something is up but they don't have any concrete evidence and so they can't do anything.

[Infected Mushroom]

LOL

but you don't think the international community will put two and two together?

Sure they might realize something is up but they don't have any concrete evidence and so they can't do anything.

so you think that merely confining her to an island isn't justice?