NationStates

Bail is a system of class warfare. Poor people who cant pay, stay in prison or have to go to bail bondsman and pay 10% or higher of the principle. This often creates situations where people cannot afford to pay back and go into deeper debt and poverty. A hundred thousand bail for a millionaire is nothing, its chump change. A ten thousand bail for someone who has no income is the difference between staying in prison for the next couple months or going free. It costs the system more money from housing the prisoners then letting them go out.

Here is the situation, people are gonna get out with bail. Therefore if granted bail, it is already decided that they are not at risk and will show up to court for the follow up hearings. For surety I suggest taking away some documents to prevent them from being flight risks. Otherwise bail or not, people who decide to not show up in court it wouldnt matter.

What say you GD?

Edit: For clarification, I do mean getting rid of the financial aspects of bail.

Bail should be 75% of your income for the amount of time you are in jail

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Iwassoclose wrote:Bail is a system of class warfare. Poor people who cant pay, stay in prison or have to go to bail bondsman and pay 10% or higher of the principle. This often creates situations where people cannot afford to pay back and go into deeper debt and poverty. A hundred thousand bail for a millionaire is nothing, its chump change. A ten thousand bail for someone who has no income is the difference between staying in prison for the next couple months or going free. It costs the system more money from housing the prisoners then letting them go out.

Here is the situation, people are gonna get out with bail. Therefore if granted bail, it is already decided that they are not at risk and will show up to court for the follow up hearings. For surety I suggest taking away some documents to prevent them from being flight risks. Otherwise bail or not, people who decide to not show up in court it wouldnt matter.

What say you GD?

I say, that might be how it's handled in whatever RL nation you call home but that isn't how it's handled in the UK.

Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Prusenreich wrote:Bail should be 75% of your income for the amount of time you are in jail

Do you mean the people have to pay 75%? Or they get 75% of previous income filed?

For the first, its not likely going to happen seeing as in this climate the jails are getting away with paying prisoners literally pennies for every hour they work.

As to the second, it is an interesting idea. Would definitely change how things are run.

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Without bail you would have to probably double or triple the amount of beds in prisons.

Bail keeps the most dangerous offenders from running away. Plus sometimes it provides time for evidence gathering

Iwassoclose wrote:Without bail you would have to probably double or triple the amount of beds in prisons.

You seem to think this would be a big deal.

Support this 100%. People should be detained awaiting trial or not based on whether they are a flight risk, or are likely to interfere with witnesses, or anything like that, not based on their access to cash. In fact, having ready access to large amounts cash should be a factor in favour of detaining someone until their trial, not in favour of releasing them. Someone who's living pay cheque to pay cheque isn't going to be able to jump in their private plane and bribe their way out of the country, or hire goons to intimidate anyone who might testify against them.

---

Mystic Warriors wrote:Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Yeah, because everyone who gets arrested and charged with a crime is guilty. Why even have a trial?

---

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Bail doesn't let people get out of prison at all. Bail lets people get out of jail before their trial.

Mystic Warriors wrote:Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Because everyone who is charged with a crime is guilty. Why even bother with a trial, really.

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Bail does not allow people to escape punishment in any sense of the word. It only allows them to not be incarcerated until trial, which allows people to continue working or whatnot amd not go into complete financial ruin.

This has benefits, particularly considering that jot everyone charged with a crime is guilty of said crime.

Great Britain MMXIX wrote:Bail keeps the most dangerous offenders from running away. Plus sometimes it provides time for evidence gathering

Bail keeps the poorest from running away, and doesn't provide any additional time for evidence gathering. Whether someone is bailed or not doesn't change when their trial will be.

Iwassoclose wrote:

Prusenreich wrote:Bail should be 75% of your income for the amount of time you are in jail

Do you mean the people have to pay 75%? Or they get 75% of previous income filed?

For the first, its not likely going to happen seeing as in this climate the jails are getting away with paying prisoners literally pennies for every hour they work.

As to the second, it is an interesting idea. Would definitely change how things are run.

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Without bail you would have to probably double or triple the amount of beds in prisons.

Pay
That would mean prisons still get bail money but both the rich and the poor would feel negative effects of their actions

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

So basically we should punish people before they've been proven guilty in a court of law.

There absolutley are negatives to the system and I can't say I'm happy with it your proposal doesn't make better sense. You might say that a hundred thousand dollar bail for a millionaire isn't a big deal but they don't, to my knowledge, skip bail often. When a millionaire flees it's usually before bail is ever set. Further, I don't know that seizing documents is going to be sufficient to make sure someone who plans to flee their court date from doing so.

Prusenreich wrote:

Iwassoclose wrote:
Do you mean the people have to pay 75%? Or they get 75% of previous income filed?

For the first, its not likely going to happen seeing as in this climate the jails are getting away with paying prisoners literally pennies for every hour they work.

As to the second, it is an interesting idea. Would definitely change how things are run.




Without bail you would have to probably double or triple the amount of beds in prisons.

Pay
That would mean prisons still get bail money but both the rich and the poor would feel negative effects of their actions

Prisons don't get bail money. The accused gets their money back if they appear at trial.

Des-Bal wrote:There absolutley are negatives to the system and I can't say I'm happy with it your proposal doesn't make better sense. You might say that a hundred thousand dollar bail for a millionaire isn't a big deal but they don't, to my knowledge, skip bail often. When a millionaire flees it's usually before bail is ever set. Further, I don't know that seizing documents is going to be sufficient to make sure someone who plans to flee their court date from doing so.

Which is why conditional bail includes a requirement to check in with the police every X days or similar.

Ifreann wrote:

Prusenreich wrote:
Pay
That would mean prisons still get bail money but both the rich and the poor would feel negative effects of their actions

Prisons don't get bail money. The accused gets their money back if they appear at trial.

Then what is the point of bail if you get your money back

Seangoli wrote:

Marrero wrote:Bail lets people who abuse children get out of prison. Screw bail.

Bail does not allow people to escape punishment in any sense of the word. It only allows them to not be incarcerated until trial, which allows people to continue working or whatnot amd not go into complete financial ruin.

This has benefits, particularly considering that jot everyone charged with a crime is guilty of said crime.

Then whats that thing that happens where people get released from prison for paying money

Prusenreich wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Prisons don't get bail money. The accused gets their money back if they appear at trial.

Then what is the point of bail if you get your money back

Because you don't get it back if you skip town and don't show up for your court date. That's the theoretical incentive.

Prusenreich wrote:

Ifreann wrote:Prisons don't get bail money. The accused gets their money back if they appear at trial.

Then what is the point of bail if you get your money back

The point is that you don't get the money back if you don't appear at trial.

Marrero wrote:

Seangoli wrote:
Bail does not allow people to escape punishment in any sense of the word. It only allows them to not be incarcerated until trial, which allows people to continue working or whatnot amd not go into complete financial ruin.

This has benefits, particularly considering that jot everyone charged with a crime is guilty of said crime.

Then whats that thing that happens where people get released from prison for paying money

There is no such thing.

Marrero wrote:

Seangoli wrote:
Bail does not allow people to escape punishment in any sense of the word. It only allows them to not be incarcerated until trial, which allows people to continue working or whatnot amd not go into complete financial ruin.

This has benefits, particularly considering that jot everyone charged with a crime is guilty of said crime.

Then whats that thing that happens where people get released from prison for paying money

NVM I GOOGLED IT bail is just for jail not prison. MAN I FEEL LIKE A MORON oh well...... learn something new every day

Ifreann wrote:

Marrero wrote:
Then whats that thing that happens where people get released from prison for paying money

There is no such thing.

Maybe in africa they got some crazy laws over there

Marrero wrote:

Ifreann wrote:There is no such thing.

Maybe in africa they got some crazy laws over there

I'm sure there a places when you can just bribe a judge to get out of prison.