Get rid of bail

[Len Hyet]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

That's not very -6 Libertarian of you

[Merther]

Bail is a system of class warfare...

No bail is just there because some politicians like to f**k underage teens and they'd like to get away with it ez. F**k bail as a whole.

There's no justice in bail. There's no justice amongst men and won't be until things like bails or diplomatic immunities disappear.

[Saiwania]

It's not a con, that's ridiculous. Letting courts fund themselves by people skipping bail just incentivises the courts to grant bail to high flight risks, and what kind of stupid fucking justice system wants people running away?

The best case scenario for a court that uses bail is for a rich person paying a relatively high bail and then not showing up. That court could conceivably get something crazy like $50,000 or $250,000 or $1 Million+ overnight. The highest bail ever set in the US was allegedly $100 Million over a case of Insider Trading. Raj Rajaratnam was alleged to have cheated in the stock market.

[Catholic Communist Jerusalem]

By that logic, lawyers themselves are class warfare. People who can't afford lawyers just get ones provided by the government. However, the rich can buy the top of the line lawyers and get themselves out while the poor stay in for the same crime.

P.S.= I support getting rid of bail, or bail by the income.

[Len Hyet]

It's not a con, that's ridiculous. Letting courts fund themselves by people skipping bail just incentivises the courts to grant bail to high flight risks, and what kind of stupid fucking justice system wants people running away?

The best case scenario for a court that uses bail is for a rich person paying a relatively high bail and then not showing up. That court could conceivably get something crazy like $50,000 or $250,000 or $1 Million+ overnight. The highest bail ever set in the US was allegedly $100 Million over a case of Insider Trading. Raj Rajaratnam was alleged to have cheated in the stock market.

What is your point here? That the best case scenario is that the courts get a brief windfall?

You are aware taxes are used for the year ahead, right? So even if the court gets a nice lump sum, taxes already got paid. There's no refund coming.

If your system were how it works, it'd add a perverse incentive to set lower bails for high flight risks, to incentivize them to run, and net the court money.

[Ifreann]

And I just explained to you that if the money is going to pay for the prison system then the government has more money to do with other things, like cut taxes, or build a hospital. The government would only have to actually pay for prisons if people stop getting send to prison, so the government would want to perpetually have lots of people in prison. It doesn't matter what oversights you put in place. There is no oversight possible that can stop the government from wanting to save money, and you're proposing a system whereby more people in prison means saving money.

The thing is people WON'T stop getting sent to prison because society will always have murderers, thieves, etc. so the point is moot because at no point will crime rate drop so incredibly low that prisons will just fail.

It certainly won't when the government has every reason to keep the crime rate up. And besides, crime rates wouldn't have to be incredibly low. If they just fall lower then the government would be making less money from prisons, but would still need to fund the prisons, so they'd have to get that funding from their own revenues. Government expenditure would go up as crime goes down. So why would the government ever work to get the crime rate down?

---

It's not a con, that's ridiculous. Letting courts fund themselves by people skipping bail just incentivises the courts to grant bail to high flight risks, and what kind of stupid fucking justice system wants people running away?

The best case scenario for a court that uses bail is for a rich person paying a relatively high bail and then not showing up. That court could conceivably get something crazy like $50,000 or $250,000 or $1 Million+ overnight. The highest bail ever set in the US was allegedly $100 Million over a case of Insider Trading. Raj Rajaratnam was alleged to have cheated in the stock market.

Again, what kind of stupid fucking justice system wants people running away?

[Genivaria]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

You mean don't get accused of something that puts you behind bars.
Having to pay bail and being guilty have nothing to do with each other.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Anyone could wind up wrongfully imprisoned.

Especially the poor.

[Prusenreich]

So than what is the problem with bail if you don't lose any money

The problem is that people who don't have the money have to stay in jail until their trial, which could mean losing their jobs, could mean losing their home, could mean their kids being taken away from them. You know, all the bad shit that can happen when you lose your income and can't replace it. Or they have to take out a loan to get out of jail and get stuck paying interest. And obviously this is a much bigger problem for poorer people.

Oh makes sense thanks

[Big Jim P]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

I'll be damned, we agree on something.

[The Blaatschapen]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Indeed. Only do stupid stuff that is legal

[Valrifell]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

Indeed. Only do stupid stuff that is legal

But the stupid and legal stuff is no fun.

[Ifreann]

Better idea.

Don't do something stupid that puts you behind bars.

I'll be damned, we agree on something.

You agree that people accused of a crime should either languish in jail until their trial or put up loads of money? Because I'm pretty sure I saw you robbing my car.

[The New California Republic]

The bail amount as a percentage of income perhaps?

[Valrifell]

The bail amount as a percentage of income perhaps?

That would require a level of cooperation between tax collection services and law enforcement that would drown the process in paperwork, which would render much of the point moot.

[Big Jim P]

I'll be damned, we agree on something.

You agree that people accused of a crime should either languish in jail until their trial or put up loads of money? Because I'm pretty sure I saw you robbing my car.

LOL. I would have to somewhere near your car, now wouldn't I?

[Ifreann]

The bail amount as a percentage of income perhaps?

Not very much help to people who need to spend all their income.

[Ifreann]

You agree that people accused of a crime should either languish in jail until their trial or put up loads of money? Because I'm pretty sure I saw you robbing my car.

LOL. I would have to somewhere near your car, now wouldn't I?

That will all be dealt with at your trial, which is set for six months from now. I hope you have ample savings to make bail or the most understanding boss in history.

[Big Jim P]

LOL. I would have to somewhere near your car, now wouldn't I?

That will all be dealt with at your trial, which is set for six months from now. I hope you have ample savings to make bail or the most understanding boss in history.

The problem is, you haven't presented a plausible reason for me to be arrested.

[The New California Republic]

The bail amount as a percentage of income perhaps?

Not very much help to people who need to spend all their income.

In which case the bail amount for them would probably be some nominal minimum.

[The New California Republic]

The bail amount as a percentage of income perhaps?

That would require a level of cooperation between tax collection services and law enforcement that would drown the process in paperwork, which would render much of the point moot.

The law already deals with a lot of paperwork as it is, and it wouldn't be that much of an increase in paperwork, it'd just be a single number that is needed from the IRS.

[Ifreann]

That will all be dealt with at your trial, which is set for six months from now. I hope you have ample savings to make bail or the most understanding boss in history.

The problem is, you haven't presented a plausible reason for me to be arrested.

Well let's pretend I did. Or pretend that the cops don't like you for some reason and they get the prosecutor to bring your case to trial anyway.

The point is that someone can find themselves being put on trial even if they haven't done anything wrong.

---

Not very much help to people who need to spend all their income.

In which case the bail amount for them would probably be some nominal minimum.

If you're setting bail in the amount of a button, what's even the point?

[Valrifell]

That would require a level of cooperation between tax collection services and law enforcement that would drown the process in paperwork, which would render much of the point moot.

The law already deals with a lot of paperwork as it is, and it wouldn't be that much of an increase in paperwork, it'd just be a single number that is needed from the IRS.

You have a lot of faith in an already understaffed IRS and government bureaucrats to not find the most ineffective and inefficient route as a default.

[The New California Republic]

In which case the bail amount for them would probably be some nominal minimum.

If you're setting bail in the amount of a button, what's even the point?

Well it certainly wouldn't be a button if a billionaire was needing to pay bail money. There could be some nominal minimum that could probably be paid by most people, $1,000 or something.

[The New California Republic]

The law already deals with a lot of paperwork as it is, and it wouldn't be that much of an increase in paperwork, it'd just be a single number that is needed from the IRS.

You have a lot of faith in an already understaffed IRS and government bureaucrats to not find the most ineffective and inefficient route as a default.

Yes I have no doubt that the bureaucratic machine would likely make it a lot more convoluted than needed.