Should we shut the f*** up?

[Ethel mermania]

I guess we'll need a big curtain around the solar system.

I see an Oort cloud and I want it painted black
No comets anymore, I want them to turn black
I see the aliens fly by in their cool FTL ships
I have to turn off radio until they are well gone
They see a line of rods and they're all painted black
With tungsten and uranium so they never come back
I see them aliens lose their heads and quickly boil away
Like a dying xenos, it just happens every day
I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see my golden throne, I must have it painted black
Maybe then I'll fade away and not have to face the facts
It's not easy facing up when crazy gods come back
No more will my green sea turn a ultramarine blue
I can and do foresee this thing happening to you
If I look hard enough into the setting sun
Humanity will laugh with me over the Xenos' bones

[Space Captain Brian Surgeon]

You don't get to be a space captain by keeping quiet.

[The New California Republic]

We as a species have been using radio waves since the 19th century. Some of that spills out into space via what are called "side lobes" away from the main beam. Radio waves travel at almost the speed of light. Those radio signals will have travelled about 100 light years away from Earth by this point, so we have already irrevocably "announced" our presence to the Universe accidentally.

[Bassoe]

I mean our current saving grace is we don't have the technology to amplify our attempts, but why even bother?

In a paper posted on the preprint server Arxiv, Hippe and Learned demonstrate that both logic and available technology make it impossible to know if any message received from ET is contaminated. Opening – or decoding – a communication from an extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), therefore, is a task suffused with potentially world-ending risk.

The chance that some form of alien would want to destroy humanity on very first contact is, they concede, probably rather low, but can’t be altogether discounted. Therefore, any communication should be treated with extreme caution.

“After all,” they write, “it is cheaper for ETI to send a malicious message to eradicate humans compared to sending battleships.”

Link

You don't have to click on that link, you just don't know..

nice premise for a sci fi movie/short story. I prefer the one where we're the only sentient beings made out of meat.

There’s already a movie with that premise.

The alien is informational rather than physical, broadcasted between stars to assemble bodies at its destination if the locals had the infrastructure to receive and support it.

[Purpelia]

You can't hide from space. It just does not work.

Put very simple, the sort of genocidal civilization that would tend to seek out and kill its neighbors at the first sound of them is the sort that would just glass planets preemptively. And why not when you can do that relatively cheaply and easily. Hell, given a bit of a push we today could set off on a project that in a couple thousand years would net us the ability to literally crack every planet in our galaxy using relativistic projectiles powered by pushing lasers feeding off giant solar panels and all without using as much as 1% of the resources in our solar system. And we wouldn't be waiting for a sound either because once you have the industrial and technological base to fire one such off you can fire billions easily enough. So we would just hit every planet we know about all at the same time.

Bottom line is, if someone is out there and watching we are already dead. And they don't even know they've killed us.

[Novus America]

We as a species have been using radio waves since the 19th century. Some of that spills out into space via what are called "side lobes" away from the main beam. Radio waves travel at almost the speed of light. Those radio signals will have travelled about 100 light years away from Earth by this point, so we have already irrevocably "announced" our presence to the Universe accidentally.

Though only to a minuscule portion.
I think actively trying is a waste of time an money.
But that worrying about it is not necessary as space time is so large we are not going to find anyone and nobody will find us.

[Olthar]

There are literally zero reasons for aliens to ever invade or attack us. And that's assuming they can even get here, which they likely cannot.

[The New California Republic]

We as a species have been using radio waves since the 19th century. Some of that spills out into space via what are called "side lobes" away from the main beam. Radio waves travel at almost the speed of light. Those radio signals will have travelled about 100 light years away from Earth by this point, so we have already irrevocably "announced" our presence to the Universe accidentally.

Though only to a minuscule portion.

television and radio broadcasts are omni-directional - albeit focused as much as possible towards the horizon - and that means a lot of diffusion.

Assuming the energy spread out equally in a sphere, and that the receiver on Gliese C was as big as the planned Square Kilometre Array of antennas on Earth, the television signals reaching the planet would be a billion, billion, billion times smaller than the original signal generated on Earth, says Dr Maggie Aderin, a space scientist at technology firm Astrium.

"Detecting a signal like this with lots of background noise would be incredibly hard, but what they would look for is a pattern in the signals to show that they were not naturally occurring."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7544915.stm

[Nimzonia]

3. They aren't scared of us. On a galactic scale, we're like some primitive uncontacted tribe on a remote island in the pacific. Can you imagine a technological superpower like the US bombing a tiny primitive tribe, no matter how violent, on the grounds that it might one day be a threat? It's a ludicrous idea. Even if they did think we could be a threat 10 million years down the line, they could keep us bottled up here indefinitely with minimal investment of resources.

Yes, Because in this situation the "tiny primitive tribe" is a species of murdermonkeys that went from simple firearms and horses to fusion bombs and ICBMs in a hundred years, and we won't didn't even know that for maybe hundreds of years after the fact. We're basically playing MAD but without early warming or second strike capability. Best to wipe them out now: since the first thing they did with fission is blow each other up, and for all we know the first thing they'll do is with near light speed is strap it to a 3000kg mass and throw it at our planet.

No. There is no reason to believe that there is anything particularly remarkable about our rate of technological progress, anything particularly frightening about any of our characteristics, or any other Harry Turtledove bullshit.

Statistically, any spacefaring alien civilization we encounter is going to be millions of years older than us. At that age, they will be practically godlike by comparison to our paltry few thousand years of development. Any weapons we can build will be no threat to people who are basically the ultimate masters of physics.

[Skeckoa]

Why would aliens want to attack/destroy/enslave Earth?

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

[Valrifell]

Why would aliens want to attack/destroy/enslave Earth?

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

No, those are all reasons why humans would invade another world.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

The fear of unlikely things is why I don't want to communicate with anybody either.

[Aclion]

No. There is no reason to believe that there is anything particularly remarkable about our rate of technological progress, anything particularly frightening about any of our characteristics, or any other Harry Turtledove bullshit

The issue isn't that our rate is remarkable. It's that with the delays in information inherent in interstellar distances species can go from discovering radio to building relativistic rockets in an amount of time less then it takes their radio waves to reach you.

Statistically, any spacefaring alien civilization we encounter is going to be millions of years older than us. At that age, they will be practically godlike by comparison to our paltry few thousand years of development. Any weapons we can build will be no threat to people who are basically the ultimate masters of physics.

It's more likely that we will be the old hats in game. Earth is pretty early in the cosmic scale, and life got started here about as soon as the conditions were right. https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/ ... e-universe

Regardless ancient godlike galaxy spanning aliens are unlikely to take any interest in us at all beyond going "oh look, this planet had little monkey things on it." right before they get on with which whatever it is that came here for.

[Novus America]

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

No, those are all reasons why humans would invade another world.

Or ants, or cats, or chimpanzees.

It is not just humans that engage in such behavior you know.

Why assume aliens would be nicer than us? We have no reason to do so.
Statistically it is likely some are nicer, and some are less nice.

Maybe they are like ants and vicious dialed up to 11.

The only reason we are safe is because space time is so huge that two space faring species appearing near enough in space time to actually interact rarely if ever happens.

We might not be alone in the universe but we are probably alone in our corner of it.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

No, those are all reasons why humans would invade another world.

Those all reasons aliens could invade another planet too.

[Olthar]

Why would aliens want to attack/destroy/enslave Earth?

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

They're not saying that's what's most probable, they're saying those are reasons they did is if they did at all.

[Scomagia]

Resources, labor, living space, perceived threat, racial superiority, bloodsport, screwed up internal politics, maybe inadvertently via disease, museum collection

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

Easier and cheaper by what measure? If an alien species wants the resources of our solar system it would make sense to just preemptively destroy the dominant lifeform to head off any potential resistance. Wiping us out would scarcely be expensive for a species that can move over such vast distances.

[Yusseria]

I really don't get why we also assume aliens are vastly more advanced than us. For all we know the closest intelligent life could be a younger species than us and have technology equivalent to that of 10th century earth.

[Valrifell]

The fear of unlikely things is why I don't want to communicate with anybody either.

I felt this on a deep level.

No, those are all reasons why humans would invade another world.

Those all reasons aliens could invade another planet too.

I think it's weird to assume that

1) Conciousness has emerged on other worlds considering the precise conditions that had to have happened and the evolutionary pressures making it necessary appearing non-trivial

2) Their reason would be like ours, given the completely foreign nature of their biology and culture (if such a concept would even apply)

3) Anyone, anywhere, has the potential capacity to reach/communicate with us within a reasonable time frame.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

Easier and cheaper by what measure? If an alien species wants the resources of our solar system it would make sense to just preemptively destroy the dominant lifeform to head off any potential resistance. Wiping us out would scarcely be expensive for a species that can move over such vast distances.

It's cheaper in resources, especially fuel.

[Olthar]

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

They're not saying that's what's most probable, they're saying those are reasons they did is if they did at all.

Are you going to trek on foot all the way to the north pole and fight a polar bear so that you can get some ice cubes, or are you just going to fill up a tray with water and make your own? Sure, there's a reason to go to the north pole and fight that bear, but that doesn't mean it's ever going to happen.

It's easier and cheaper to get resources from mining asteroids and comets. It's easier and cheaper to get labor from robots. It's easier and cheaper get living space by colonizing unpopulated worlds or building orbital cities. Any alien species capable of practical interstellar travel would be so technologically advanced that we would pose less of a threat to them than ants do to us. Any alien species that kills in the name of racial superiority would never make it to space by virtue of killing itself. It's cheaper and easier to hunt animals from one's own planet rather than travelling millions of lightyears to kick around an undeveloped species. Any alien species with screwed up internal politics would never be capable of organizing itself long enough to plan and enact a massive interstellar expedition. An alien species that developed through an entirely separate evolutionary chain would have diseases that are wholly incompatible with our biology. It would be cheaper and easier to obtain artifacts for an alien museum through trade as opposed to invasion.

Easier and cheaper by what measure? If an alien species wants the resources of our solar system it would make sense to just preemptively destroy the dominant lifeform to head off any potential resistance. Wiping us out would scarcely be expensive for a species that can move over such vast distances.

Fuel costs to get here, munitions costs for whatever weapons they use to kill us, and personnel costs because we will certainly take some of them out before they destroy us.

[Valrifell]

No, those are all reasons why humans would invade another world.

Or ants, or cats, or chimpanzees.

It is not just humans that engage in such behavior you know.

Why assume aliens would be nicer than us? We have no reason to do so.
Statistically it is likely some are nicer, and some are less nice.

Maybe they are like ants and vicious dialed up to 11.

The only reason we are safe is because space time is so huge that two space faring species appearing near enough in space time to actually interact rarely if ever happens.

We might not be alone in the universe but we are probably alone in our corner of it.

I'm not making any assumptions, here.

Like how it would be an assumption to ascribe human (or, indeed, terrestrial) characteristics to a xeno.

[Olthar]

I really don't get why we also assume aliens are vastly more advanced than us. For all we know the closest intelligent life could be a younger species than us and have technology equivalent to that of 10th century earth.

Then they wouldn't be able to reach us, and this discussion is about aliens who can travel to Earth. :V

[Diopolis]

We should not only shut up, we should also release relativistic weapons at the source of potential alien civilizations and work on civilizational expansion off of Earth.