How Would You Improve the American Education System?

[Neutraligon]

Return to a Classical Liberal education system based around the Trivium in primary school and the Quadrivium in secondary.

In primary school:
1.) Grammar — traditionally Latin and Greek, but early childhood is the age to learn language and be able to properly identify objects and concepts.
2.) Logic — identifying how things work together, or contradict, and being able to run experiments, both physical and mental, to prove or disprove claims.
3.) Rhetoric — being able to accurately explain the findings from the previous two subjects and formulate a compelling argument.

In secondary school:
1.) Arithmetic — quantifying data and representing concepts in number.
2.) Geometry — studying number in space. This enables us to construct models to represent three-dimensional objects
3.) Music — this is number in time. This is a well-documented subject known to improve cognition among students.
4.) Astronomy — this is number in time and space. While originally concerned with the study of the heavens, this is more accurately the study of Physics.

Certain other subjects can be included to produce a well-rounded person: Physical Education (mens sana in corpore sano), Civics, perhaps even Home Economics can be argued for. Jesuit educators have long held the aim of teaching the whole man. Study of Artes Mechanicae can be left to trade schools. Subjects like History, Philosophy, Theology, Economics, Law, and Medicine belong in post-secondary education historically.

The brilliant thing about the Seven Liberal Arts is that they teach the student how to think, over what to think. Teaching to produce good standardised test scores produces good test-takers. Teaching to think critically about the world around the student produces free thinkers.

I am not so sure I agree with how this is set up. First I think arithmetic needs to be learned earlier. Second I think you are missing two key things, I think there should be classes on computer programming and I think there should be language classes. As to teaching physics, that is hard enough in high school when they do not have the calc needed to really understand the topic, let alone in the type of schooling you are describing, where they are just learning arithmetic.

[Geneviev]

Actually, yes. And there are some schools that claim that Christianity is evil, and that's another thing parents shouldn't have to allow.

So we're supposed to permit our populace to be more uneducated because religion is sensitive and the climate change science hurts our brains?

No, you should allow parents to choose for their children to not be indoctrinated if that's what they want. That's why private schools exist now.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Get robo-aristotles. Honestly where technology is heading that will be a thing. A robotic ai that learns about you, so it can teach you in a way you could best understand. Teachers become room attendants serving as discipline and authority ensuring the students are working.

Ultimateley the best and cheapest way of doing things. Education wise.

[Holy Tedalonia]

So we're supposed to permit our populace to be more uneducated because religion is sensitive and the climate change science hurts our brains?

No, you should allow parents to choose for their children to not be indoctrinated if that's what they want. That's why private schools exist now.

Also homeschooling.

[Neutraligon]

Get robo-aristotles. Honestly where technology is heading that will be a thing. A robotic ai that learns about you, so it can teach you in a way you could best understand. Teachers become room attendants serving as discipline and authority ensuring the students are working.

Ultimateley the best and cheapest way of doing things. Education wise.

If you do that then you don't need the robot, only the computer. I would change one thing though. Kids still need time to play and do stuff with their hands. Robots could probably work to replace teachers in things like a science class or chemistry class where students actually do experiments but I am not sure that would be the best way to go about things. And students should be given time to have recess or sports classes.

[Pope Joan]

There is too much emphasis on the grade system. It plays into a game-like scenario in which the teacher is holding a reward and the student has to figure out how to get it from him or her; not necessarily related to learning anything.
i used to give narrative evaluations instead; personalized feedback, usually two paragraphs. The student actually got to see some concrete evaluation, something useful.

[Internationalist Bastard]

There is too much emphasis on the grade system. It plays into a game-like scenario in which the teacher is holding a reward and the student has to figure out how to get it from him or her; not necessarily related to learning anything.
i used to give narrative evaluations instead; personalized feedback, usually two paragraphs. The student actually got to see some concrete evaluation, something useful.

Yeah the best teacher I had was required to slap a grade on but he always put a lot of energy into actually encouraging us to improve our work. I'll never forget the time he gave me a d on a paper because even though it hit all the points he knew I could've done better

[Pope Joan]

There is too much emphasis on the grade system. It plays into a game-like scenario in which the teacher is holding a reward and the student has to figure out how to get it from him or her; not necessarily related to learning anything.
i used to give narrative evaluations instead; personalized feedback, usually two paragraphs. The student actually got to see some concrete evaluation, something useful.

Yeah the best teacher I had was required to slap a grade on but he always put a lot of energy into actually encouraging us to improve our work. I'll never forget the time he gave me a d on a paper because even though it hit all the points he knew I could've done better

Whoa, that seems a little harsh. But I do admire the intention, to give real and useful feedback

[Internationalist Bastard]

Yeah the best teacher I had was required to slap a grade on but he always put a lot of energy into actually encouraging us to improve our work. I'll never forget the time he gave me a d on a paper because even though it hit all the points he knew I could've done better

Whoa, that seems a little harsh. But I do admire the intention, to give real and useful feedback

Oh he was jackass
But he was a jackass who was right. He always pushed me to work harder, and now I actually enjoy writing, which I'd say is a job well done for a teacher

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

I would start out by abolishing it because it is a waste of money.

[Neutraligon]

I would start out by abolishing it because it is a waste of money.

Do go on.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Get robo-aristotles. Honestly where technology is heading that will be a thing. A robotic ai that learns about you, so it can teach you in a way you could best understand. Teachers become room attendants serving as discipline and authority ensuring the students are working.

Ultimateley the best and cheapest way of doing things. Education wise.

If you do that then you don't need the robot, only the computer. I would change one thing though. Kids still need time to play and do stuff with their hands. Robots could probably work to replace teachers in things like a science class or chemistry class where students actually do experiments but I am not sure that would be the best way to go about things. And students should be given time to have recess or sports classes.

I really meant digitally. Used the wrong wording tbh.

[Kowani]

So we're supposed to permit our populace to be more uneducated because religion is sensitive and the climate change science hurts our brains?

No, you should allow parents to choose for their children to not be indoctrinated if that's what they want. That's why private schools exist now.

Yeah, how dare they learn that the Earth is round...

[Outer Sparta]

I would start out by abolishing it because it is a waste of money.

And do what next? Leave it abolished?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I would start out by abolishing it because it is a waste of money.

And do what next? Leave it abolished?

I don't think he is being serious.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

And do what next? Leave it abolished?

I don't think he is serious.

It's sad that enough people believe what I just said that I need to clarify I do not actually want this.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I don't think he is serious.

It's sad that enough people believe what I just said that I need to clarify I do not actually want this.

Agreed. You didn't have to clarify to me. I know your political views, so you'd probably increase such budget if anything.

[Outer Sparta]

And do what next? Leave it abolished?

I don't think he is being serious.

I figured, but didn't know how to follow up with that. Perhaps "plug it back in" would work.

[United States of Natan]

Well reform is certainly needed. But federalizing the entire system would be difficult, if not impossible. It would require a constitutional amendment putting the control of the education system into the hands of the federal government, ratification of which would be incredibly unlikely, as it would be asking the states to give up some of their powers. And as we all know, States aren't too keen on handing over their r powers to the federal government. It would also require a massive federal tax increase and more money to the education department, which Congress certainly isn't going to go for. It would also require the establishment of several new organs of government to manage and regulate the hundreds, if not thousands of schools across the country.

Moreover, I would go as far as to suggest that a centralized federal education system with universal national standards is a bad idea. It may work in smaller countries, but that's because those countries aren't as large in area or population, nor do they have as many different regions and cultures as us. What might work in NYC isn't necessarily going to work in rural west texas. Different people, areas, and schools need different methods of education. That's why I believe we should maintain the current system of state/local control over education. However, we do need to reform education in general. No more for-profit, no more charter schools, no more emphasis on testing.

[The Land of Home]

A few things.
1: A 4 Day School Week, Doctor's offices are generally only open Monday till Friday. Meaning that in order to book an appointment a student must miss at least some school. Giving a day in order to allow students to take care of their well being without punishing them academically should improve attendance and general health. Considering that I've been getting out of school because it's currently considered a Biohazard, I think some improvements can be made in that department.
2: Hire more custodians, and I.T. staff. rather than superfluous administrators In order to be a safe environment for learning, the school needs to be taken care of. My previous school literally has a massive crack in the ceiling and large parts currently lack heating. This is due to lack of maintenance and general neglect more than anything.
3:Less or even no standardized testing. Standardized testing not only places unnecessary stress on the students, but also takes up valuable time that teachers could use to teach. Keep your major tests such as ACT and SAT, just cut out all of the standardized EOC's. Not to mention the actual cost of buying all of these tests is a ridiculous waste of resources.
4: More Guidance resources. Teacher and Students are human beings, and sometimes human beings are simply not compatible. When one of those humans has power over the other, it can become a nasty situation rather quickly. Students need to be able to talk to someone, such as Guidance in order to resolve the situation, or if need be remove them from the situation entirely through class transfers. There's also the issue of mental health, which schools should deal with. Not because it's some god given duty, but because they're the ones with the most access to and resources for the most vulnerable population.
5: This is a two parter:
1 Pay your teachers for gods sakes. It's a difficult job as it is, but with no pay who in god's name would ever take it.
2: Reimburse your teachers for classroom supplies, having extra pencils only helps the kids, and it shouldn't have to come out of somebody's salary.
Well that's about all I got

[Geneviev]

No, you should allow parents to choose for their children to not be indoctrinated if that's what they want. That's why private schools exist now.

Also homeschooling.

Not everyone can homeschool. If both parents are working or if it's not easy to homeschool legally.

No, you should allow parents to choose for their children to not be indoctrinated if that's what they want. That's why private schools exist now.

Yeah, how dare they learn that the Earth is round...

In my school, it's taught that creationism is a lie. Someone else in my church had a teacher who called Christianity a polytheistic religion. That's not what Christian parents should want.

A few things.
1: A 4 Day School Week, Doctor's offices are generally only open Monday till Friday. Meaning that in order to book an appointment a student must miss at least some school. Giving a day in order to allow students to take care of their well being without punishing them academically should improve attendance and general health. Considering that I've been getting out of school because it's currently considered a Biohazard, I think some improvements can be made in that department.
2: Hire more custodians, and I.T. staff. rather than superfluous administrators In order to be a safe environment for learning, the school needs to be taken care of. My previous school literally has a massive crack in the ceiling and large parts currently lack heating. This is due to lack of maintenance and general neglect more than anything.
3:Less or even no standardized testing. Standardized testing not only places unnecessary stress on the students, but also takes up valuable time that teachers could use to teach. Keep your major tests such as ACT and SAT, just cut out all of the standardized EOC's. Not to mention the actual cost of buying all of these tests is a ridiculous waste of resources.
4: More Guidance resources. Teacher and Students are human beings, and sometimes human beings are simply not compatible. When one of those humans has power over the other, it can become a nasty situation rather quickly. Students need to be able to talk to someone, such as Guidance in order to resolve the situation, or if need be remove them from the situation entirely through class transfers. There's also the issue of mental health, which schools should deal with. Not because it's some god given duty, but because they're the ones with the most access to and resources for the most vulnerable population.
5: This is a two parter:
1 Pay your teachers for gods sakes. It's a difficult job as it is, but with no pay who in god's name would ever take it.
2: Reimburse your teachers for classroom supplies, having extra pencils only helps the kids, and it shouldn't have to come out of somebody's salary.
Well that's about all I got

This is all absolutely necessary. Especially maintenance. It's ridiculous that some schools have lead in the water and still have asbestos and there's nothing being done about it. Not to mention repairing flood damage. And yes, making a four day school week would be very helpful. That fifth day could also be used to get additional help in some subjects if someone is having trouble with them, or for additional elective classes.

[Valrifell]

Return to a Classical Liberal education system based around the Trivium in primary school and the Quadrivium in secondary.

In primary school:
1.) Grammar — traditionally Latin and Greek, but early childhood is the age to learn language and be able to properly identify objects and concepts.
2.) Logic — identifying how things work together, or contradict, and being able to run experiments, both physical and mental, to prove or disprove claims.
3.) Rhetoric — being able to accurately explain the findings from the previous two subjects and formulate a compelling argument.

In secondary school:
1.) Arithmetic — quantifying data and representing concepts in number.
2.) Geometry — studying number in space. This enables us to construct models to represent three-dimensional objects
3.) Music — this is number in time. This is a well-documented subject known to improve cognition among students.
4.) Astronomy — this is number in time and space. While originally concerned with the study of the heavens, this is more accurately the study of Physics.

Certain other subjects can be included to produce a well-rounded person: Physical Education (mens sana in corpore sano), Civics, perhaps even Home Economics can be argued for. Jesuit educators have long held the aim of teaching the whole man. Study of Artes Mechanicae can be left to trade schools. Subjects like History, Philosophy, Theology, Economics, Law, and Medicine belong in post-secondary education historically.

The brilliant thing about the Seven Liberal Arts is that they teach the student how to think, over what to think. Teaching to produce good standardised test scores produces good test-takers. Teaching to think critically about the world around the student produces free thinkers.

I am not so sure I agree with how this is set up. First I think arithmetic needs to be learned earlier. Second I think you are missing two key things, I think there should be classes on computer programming and I think there should be language classes. As to teaching physics, that is hard enough in high school when they do not have the calc needed to really understand the topic, let alone in the type of schooling you are describing, where they are just learning arithmetic.

Computer programming is something that not everyone should learn, it's never quite going to be something that's essential for everyone to learn in the same sense the current round of basic subjects are.

[Freslia]

A few things.
1: A 4 Day School Week, Doctor's offices are generally only open Monday till Friday. Meaning that in order to book an appointment a student must miss at least some school. Giving a day in order to allow students to take care of their well being without punishing them academically should improve attendance and general health. Considering that I've been getting out of school because it's currently considered a Biohazard, I think some improvements can be made in that department.
2: Hire more custodians, and I.T. staff. rather than superfluous administrators In order to be a safe environment for learning, the school needs to be taken care of. My previous school literally has a massive crack in the ceiling and large parts currently lack heating. This is due to lack of maintenance and general neglect more than anything.
3:Less or even no standardized testing. Standardized testing not only places unnecessary stress on the students, but also takes up valuable time that teachers could use to teach. Keep your major tests such as ACT and SAT, just cut out all of the standardized EOC's. Not to mention the actual cost of buying all of these tests is a ridiculous waste of resources.
4: More Guidance resources. Teacher and Students are human beings, and sometimes human beings are simply not compatible. When one of those humans has power over the other, it can become a nasty situation rather quickly. Students need to be able to talk to someone, such as Guidance in order to resolve the situation, or if need be remove them from the situation entirely through class transfers. There's also the issue of mental health, which schools should deal with. Not because it's some god given duty, but because they're the ones with the most access to and resources for the most vulnerable population.
5: This is a two parter:
1 Pay your teachers for gods sakes. It's a difficult job as it is, but with no pay who in god's name would ever take it.
2: Reimburse your teachers for classroom supplies, having extra pencils only helps the kids, and it shouldn't have to come out of somebody's salary.
Well that's about all I got

Agree with this, but also:
6. Fix the funding, it should not be tied to local propeety values or to test scores.
7. Less emphasis on grades in general. This would hopefully lead to the end of a lot of things that are bad for learning but good for grading—the five-paragraph essay, for example.
8. Start and end a bit later.
9. Less homework, more classwork. A student should figure out if they’re having trouble with the material in-class, not at home where help might not be available.
10. Similarly, breaks should be actual breaks. Don’t give assignments over winter, spring, or thanksgiving break. Let students relax and recuperate.

[Neutraligon]

I am not so sure I agree with how this is set up. First I think arithmetic needs to be learned earlier. Second I think you are missing two key things, I think there should be classes on computer programming and I think there should be language classes. As to teaching physics, that is hard enough in high school when they do not have the calc needed to really understand the topic, let alone in the type of schooling you are describing, where they are just learning arithmetic.

Computer programming is something that not everyone should learn, it's never quite going to be something that's essential for everyone to learn in the same sense the current round of basic subjects are.

No but computer literacy is something everyone should learn, since everyone is going to be using the internet or programs like word.

[New Melvonia]

OK, so this is going to be as popular as a poop in a punchbowl, but I'm going to say it anyway:
Stop treating "academics" as if it's a nice optional addition to education, and put it back where it belongs. Which is everywhere.
Knowledge is *the* legitimate goal of education. Not self-esteem. Not "outside the box thinking". Not being a "well-rounded person", whatever that's supposed to mean. Not making an effort. And certainly, *certainly* not trying to learn critical thinking and how to construct a reasoned argument when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, because you've been taught that facts are just opinions and reality is up for debate.