How Would You Improve the American Education System?

[Salandriagado]

Does not teach any of the skills under discussion.

Deductive reasoning? Yes it does.

No it doesn't. It teaches inductive reasoning. It also doesn't teach what I've been talking about from the start: thinking carefully and showing your work throughout.

[Geneviev]

Not everyone wants to go into STEM, though. If someone is more interested in history or language, that person shouldn't be required to take a calculus class when they can be taking an advanced history class or learning another language instead.

Correct not everyone wants to go into stem, at the point of high school. People frequently change their major in college, at least early on, and the mth classes allow them to go into STEM fields should they eventually decide they want to switch. Like I said it leaves a door open.

There are people who just aren't good at math. Just because there are a few people who might go into STEM eventually doesn't mean that people who are good at arts or languages should be forced to take math instead of something they're actually good at and enjoy.

And what's that thing?

Elementary logic and abstract thinking.

Music theory could teach that too, while also having all of the other benefits from music (listening, working with other people, etc.).

Finally people that agree that the education sucks. Easy, remove common core, so teachers can teach what they know, real stuff not common crap.

Common core is a complete disaster. Exactly.

[Salandriagado]

Elementary logic and abstract thinking.

Music theory could teach that too, while also having all of the other benefits from music (listening, working with other people, etc.).

Music theory absolutely cannot teach the kind of strict deductive reasoning that you get from mathematics.

[Geneviev]

Music theory could teach that too, while also having all of the other benefits from music (listening, working with other people, etc.).

Music theory absolutely cannot teach the kind of strict deductive reasoning that you get from mathematics.

Why not?

[Northwest Slobovia]

What, NSG, would you do? What reforms would you implement and how would you improve the education system?

Burn it with fire.

How would you do away with the county and municipal level of education and replace it with a federal level? What does your ideal American education system look like?

Local control of education is one of the few things we do right, actually. It allows for experimentation with new methods and their nationwide adoption as they're seen to work (or not). Trying to centralize education will simply result in a sclerotic, increasingly archaic educational system, stuck in whatever year it's federalized.

Personally, I don't really know how we'd separate ourselves from the county and municipal level when it comes to our nation's education, but I do believe that we should find our way to a centralized, federal education system. I think we should look at the education systems of Finland, as well as other Scandinavian nations and as well as Canada,

Stop right there. Lemme try a little numeracy on ya. Here's a table of the populations of the countries you mentioned, along with those of the three largest American school districts:

Chicago: 2.3M
LA: 3.9M±
Norway: 5.3M
Finland: 5.5M
Denmark: 5.8M
NYC: 8.6M
Sweden: 10.0M
Canada: 37.2M
(LA is an odd case, because the LA Unified School District doesn't quite include all of LA, but instead gets some nearby cities too. So I don't have an exact population, but I think the upper limit is a bit smaller than Norway's population.)

So, New York City is already running its schools and education planning on a scale larger than the Finns, and not too much smaller than the Swedes. So, if it was simply a matter of scale, NYC should have schools just as good. But of course, it's not a matter of scale.

Also of course, the US has a population almost 10x Canada's, which is something like 60x Finland's. As we keep rediscovering, getting that many people to agree on any policy is difficult. Further, our experiments in Federal education planning have been counterproductive. Remember No Child Left Behind? How 'bout we admit that the problem isn't local control and the solution isn't federal control?

[Telconi]

Deductive reasoning? Yes it does.

No it doesn't. It teaches inductive reasoning. It also doesn't teach what I've been talking about from the start: thinking carefully and showing your work throughout.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

[Neutraligon]

How many people do you think work in fields that require the level of mathematics taught in High School?

Any engineer, any scientist, any electrician, plumber, bookkeeper, accountant. Etc


Asking if you want fries with that, or after watching my idiot governor, those jobs dont, I agree.

Although learning the material means that at least in principal the people should be able to understand enough not to fall for stupid hoaxes.

[Ethel mermania]

Any engineer, any scientist, any electrician, plumber, bookkeeper, accountant. Etc


Asking if you want fries with that, or after watching my idiot governor, those jobs dont, I agree.

Although learning the material means that at least in principal the people should be able to understand enough not to fall for stupid hoaxes.

Clearly you have not heard of Andrew cuomo.

[Alien Overlord]

Through whatever means, shake loose the heavy emphasis on testing and especially state-wide testing. One of the biggest issues i remember having through high school was that i was never really taught the material i was expected to learn-rather i was taught rote memorization. I remember clearly that i could ingest information, then vomit it on a page and that was that, i never thought about it again for the most part. Its a big reason why i was always more of a language and English student over a Math Student, simply because the processes and information i would 'learn' in math class were immediately forgotten once we moved onto another subject.

I learned far more by being able to study subjects alone and having them be interesting to me, because i wasn't expected to have to regurgitate that information, which allowed me to analyze it in my own time.

Testing itself is not bad-per say. I do believe that tests shouldn't be done away with entirely, but the huge emphasis we have on testing needs to go. Another thing i remember from High School is that i learned the most from teachers who deviated from what they were expected to do. The teachers who taught me the most were the ones who would go on rambling about small facts relating to say-the Civil War.

So my point through all of that is this; Teachers shouldn't be allowed to teach just anything, but they should be free to teach it by their own means in their own time. That is the most important thing, because Students need more time to digest information presented to them. If a math teacher is expected to teach two or three new things in one five day week, how can the students be expected to do anything more than regurgitate that info that next Monday and never think of it again? Students nowadays aren't learning much, they are just learning how to present recently acquired information that is presented in an appealing way to the teacher. Do away with testing and these restrictions on teachers.

I also believe that our teachers should get paid more. Teaching isn't McDonalds, it would seem to require a lot of work and effort on the part of the teachers, yet they don't get paid much at all. No one who goes into teaching is doing it to get rich, its a field that is highly stressful and rewarding, but some can't afford to in the career simply because of costs. I feel that we should skim some money from other areas of our Budget and give these shavings to Education, at least as a start towards improvement.

How many people do you think work in fields that require the level of mathematics taught in High School?

Any engineer, any scientist, any electrician, plumber, bookkeeper, accountant. Etc


Asking if you want fries with that, or after watching my idiot governor, those jobs dont, I agree.

I could be wrong, but aren't these skills retaught when you enter the profession anyways? Or in College/Trade School?

[New haven america]

Most if not all of the professional careers require at least some background in mathematics. Removing it from the curriculum is just setting yourself up for failure down the line.

How many people do you think work in fields that require the level of mathematics taught in High School?

Engineers, scientists, teachers, architects, accountants, electricians, computer scientists/software developers, plumbers (Industrial plumbers specifically), water treatment plant workers, farmers, doctors, I could be here all day...

[Alien Overlord]

How many people do you think work in fields that require the level of mathematics taught in High School?

Engineers, scientists, teachers, architects, accountants, electricians, computer scientists/software developers, plumbers (Industrial plumbers specifically), water treatment plant workers, farmers, doctors, I could be here all day...

I could be wrong, but aren't these skills retaught when you enter the profession anyways? Or in College/Trade School?

Could you elaborate on farmers? I can understand the rest of them, maybe, but farmers? I know a few farmers who dropped out of High School and were dreadful with math.

[New haven america]

Engineers, scientists, teachers, architects, accountants, electricians, computer scientists/software developers, plumbers (Industrial plumbers specifically), water treatment plant workers, farmers, doctors, I could be here all day...

1. I could be wrong, but aren't these skills retaught when you enter the profession anyways? Or in College/Trade School?

2. Could you elaborate on farmers? I can understand the rest of them, maybe, but farmers? I know a few farmers who dropped out of High School and were dreadful with math.

1. Sometimes yes. But you're still required to know at least high school or college level math to get into those jobs.
2. A lot of people who have to make money off of farming need to know algebra, trig, stats, etc... Like how many animals need a certain amount of feed or land, calculating that required feed/land, how much fencing you might need to enclose a certain area, how much land you need for crops to grow, calculating the money you make off of crops and livestock vs. how much you need to spend, etc...

Hell, that's just general farming and not getting into specifics. For more specialized things like vineyards or hydroponics you need to learn at least chemistry, biology, horticulture, organic chemistry, etc...

[United Muscovite Nations]

1. I could be wrong, but aren't these skills retaught when you enter the profession anyways? Or in College/Trade School?

2. Could you elaborate on farmers? I can understand the rest of them, maybe, but farmers? I know a few farmers who dropped out of High School and were dreadful with math.

1. Sometimes yes. But you're still required to know at least high school or college level math to get into those jobs.
2. A lot of people who have to make money off of farming need to know algebra, trig, stats, etc... Like how many animals need a certain amount of feed or land, calculating that required feed/land, how much fencing you might need to enclose a certain area, how much land you need for crops to grow, calculating the money you make off of crops and livestock vs. how much you need to spend, etc...

Hell, that's just general farming and not getting into specifics. For more specialized things like vineyards or hydroponics you need to learn at least chemistry, biology, horticulture, organic chemistry, etc...

Tbf, the government helps with a lot of that.

[Republic of Penguinian Astronautia]

The real reason why people think math is less important is that they don't actually learn it, so the don't use it, and think they don't need it. If you actually learn it, you realize that it very well May be the most important. Why don't we learn it? Because it is taught wrong.

[Belinka]

I’ve been in this backwards system for 16 years now and want to know how you all think. It would be awesome to learn how other countries feel about it as well. Here are some things wrong about American Education currently:

The Every Student Succeeds Act is a shitshow. It essentially gives schools total control over government funding, and bases that funding off of how well kids do on tests. It also forces advanced kids to stay back with idiots who don’t do their work. I’m by no means a “talented” or “gifted” student but I get my work done, and I do it on time. These “disadvantaged” children are just kids who refuse to do work when ample time is given to them. This forces kids who are getting shit done to stay on a subject that they already know because some kids won’t do their work. I experience this every, single, day.

Also the funding is out of whack. Our school just bought a state of the art, 1.5 million dollars on a goddamn weights room. That was a horrid desicion. They only have 15 kids in a weights class at any time, they didn’t need to spend a million dollars on it. Other schools do this shit to. They also spent over 800k on a new football stadium. This could have gone to teacher salaries, fine arts, better classrooms, technology for learning. School is for education not building muscle. Go to a gym for that. I understand having sports in school, and it’s great. However, we don’t need to spend that much on it. We can have a stadium that accommodates what we need for half of that, and even a weights room that is half that.

Although this is better than the No Child Left Behind Act, there needs to be less money put into less nessecary things. Things like classrooms need to be more of a priority over sports programs.

[The Fascist Reich]

Schools should be built by the population and paid for by private citizens anytime you give the government control of the school its becomes indoctrination in fact public schools is a socialist idea you should look into who started this idea of public schooling plus you can be trailed for truancy for not going to school so its forced indoctrination

[The Discipled]

The Every Student Succeeds Act is a shitshow. It essentially gives schools total control over government funding, and bases that funding off of how well kids do on tests. It also forces advanced kids to stay back with idiots who don’t do their work. I’m by no means a “talented” or “gifted” student but I get my work done, and I do it on time. These “disadvantaged” children are just kids who refuse to do work when ample time is given to them. This forces kids who are getting shit done to stay on a subject that they already know because some kids won’t do their work. I experience this every, single, day.

This summary shows you are in school, to be quite frank.

[Geneviev]

I’ve been in this backwards system for 16 years now and want to know how you all think. It would be awesome to learn how other countries feel about it as well. Here are some things wrong about American Education currently:

The Every Student Succeeds Act is a shitshow. It essentially gives schools total control over government funding, and bases that funding off of how well kids do on tests. It also forces advanced kids to stay back with idiots who don’t do their work. I’m by no means a “talented” or “gifted” student but I get my work done, and I do it on time. These “disadvantaged” children are just kids who refuse to do work when ample time is given to them. This forces kids who are getting shit done to stay on a subject that they already know because some kids won’t do their work. I experience this every, single, day.

Also the funding is out of whack. Our school just bought a state of the art, 1.5 million dollars on a goddamn weights room. That was a horrid desicion. They only have 15 kids in a weights class at any time, they didn’t need to spend a million dollars on it. Other schools do this shit to. They also spent over 800k on a new football stadium. This could have gone to teacher salaries, fine arts, better classrooms, technology for learning. School is for education not building muscle. Go to a gym for that. I understand having sports in school, and it’s great. However, we don’t need to spend that much on it. We can have a stadium that accommodates what we need for half of that, and even a weights room that is half that.

Although this is better than the No Child Left Behind Act, there needs to be less money put into less nessecary things. Things like classrooms need to be more of a priority over sports programs.

What you said about funding is very true. There is also the problem that schools in low income areas receive less funding in general, and so they don't have as many resources for anything, including classrooms as well as sports and arts.

[Ethel mermania]

I’ve been in this backwards system for 16 years now and want to know how you all think. It would be awesome to learn how other countries feel about it as well. Here are some things wrong about American Education currently:

The Every Student Succeeds Act is a shitshow. It essentially gives schools total control over government funding, and bases that funding off of how well kids do on tests. It also forces advanced kids to stay back with idiots who don’t do their work. I’m by no means a “talented” or “gifted” student but I get my work done, and I do it on time. These “disadvantaged” children are just kids who refuse to do work when ample time is given to them. This forces kids who are getting shit done to stay on a subject that they already know because some kids won’t do their work. I experience this every, single, day.

Also the funding is out of whack. Our school just bought a state of the art, 1.5 million dollars on a goddamn weights room. That was a horrid desicion. They only have 15 kids in a weights class at any time, they didn’t need to spend a million dollars on it. Other schools do this shit to. They also spent over 800k on a new football stadium. This could have gone to teacher salaries, fine arts, better classrooms, technology for learning. School is for education not building muscle. Go to a gym for that. I understand having sports in school, and it’s great. However, we don’t need to spend that much on it. We can have a stadium that accommodates what we need for half of that, and even a weights room that is half that.

Although this is better than the No Child Left Behind Act, there needs to be less money put into less nessecary things. Things like classrooms need to be more of a priority over sports programs.

What you said about funding is very true. There is also the problem that schools in low income areas receive less funding in general, and so they don't have as many resources for anything, including classrooms as well as sports and arts.

NYC spends 17.5k per kid, what does your district spend?

[North German Realm]

Schools should be built by the population and paid for by private citizens anytime you give the government control of the school its becomes indoctrination in fact public schools is a socialist idea you should look into who started this idea of public schooling plus you can be trailed for truancy for not going to school so its forced indoctrination

State Education (Compulsory Public Education under State command) was something Authoritarians came up with, specifically to raise generations of mindbent drones (Also to eradicate unwanted traits, such as minority cultures, et al), but it was by no means something socialists came up with. It predates the Communist Manifesto by many decades.

[Greater Germany]

More teachers, better pay and benefits for teachers, smaller class sizes, more money for poorer schools but also more oversight, less emphasis on athletic scholarships, a program directed towards young black Americans to reinforce that getting an education isn't a "white people" thing, target and break down gang culture, and I'd also say provide more social welfare to provide stable home lives so kids don't have to leave school to get jobs.

[Valrifell]

Also the funding is out of whack. Our school just bought a state of the art, 1.5 million dollars on a goddamn weights room. That was a horrid desicion. They only have 15 kids in a weights class at any time, they didn’t need to spend a million dollars on it. Other schools do this shit to. They also spent over 800k on a new football stadium. This could have gone to teacher salaries, fine arts, better classrooms, technology for learning. School is for education not building muscle. Go to a gym for that. I understand having sports in school, and it’s great. However, we don’t need to spend that much on it. We can have a stadium that accommodates what we need for half of that, and even a weights room that is half that.

The thing is, big budget purchases like that are usually funded through grants that force the school to spend it in a particular way. Upgrading sports equipment is usually the easiest and most straightforward thing to spend money on.

[Salandriagado]

Music theory absolutely cannot teach the kind of strict deductive reasoning that you get from mathematics.

Why not?

Because there is no such reasoning involved in music theory.

[Salandriagado]

No it doesn't. It teaches inductive reasoning. It also doesn't teach what I've been talking about from the start: thinking carefully and showing your work throughout.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes, but there is no formal deductive reasoning involved in engine maintenance.

[Salandriagado]

Engineers, scientists, teachers, architects, accountants, electricians, computer scientists/software developers, plumbers (Industrial plumbers specifically), water treatment plant workers, farmers, doctors, I could be here all day...

I could be wrong, but aren't these skills retaught when you enter the profession anyways? Or in College/Trade School?

Could you elaborate on farmers? I can understand the rest of them, maybe, but farmers? I know a few farmers who dropped out of High School and were dreadful with math.

I can confirm that I have actually been offered jobs doing maths for farms.