New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[Christian Confederation]

Our family values.
And I agree professional coffee is are but they only said coffee shop.

[Slarvainian]

I just think America lost it's values and needs to find them again.

America has never lived up to its foundational values, but it is rather closer now than at any point, I dare say, in the past.

What are you talking about? Freedom of speech has definitely held up. You just can't protest conscription because it would be irresponsible to yell fire in a crowded theatre!

[Valrifell]

America has never lived up to its foundational values, but it is rather closer now than at any point, I dare say, in the past.

What are you talking about? Freedom of speech has definitely held up. You just can't protest conscription because it would be irresponsible to yell fire in a crowded theatre!

Freedom of speech has totally held up.

Except for the Sedition Acts.

And HUAC

And protesting zoning laws.

[Genivaria]

Also apparently learning not to be a right shit to other people isn't a life skill any more.

I just think America lost it's values and needs to find them again.

*yawns*

Our family values.
And I agree professional coffee is are but they only said coffee shop.

I'm not sure what irks me more, the 'family values' line or the phrase 'professional coffee'.
Make you coffee at home like a normal person.

[Slarvainian]

Our family values.
And I agree professional coffee is are but they only said coffee shop.

If the family values part was in response to me, what values? Family values is a loose conceptual term to describe the current or past generalized recommendations for raising a strong family. Hundread and fifty years ago that meant a husband had to be the property owner and there was even a practice of shaming the husband if he were to be abused by his wife. It's a nonsensical statement to use today as values range from Mormon polygamy to open-love relationships inspired by deconstructionist queer theory.

[Sicaris]

I just think America lost it's values and needs to find them again.

America has never lived up to its foundational values, but it is rather closer now than at any point, I dare say, in the past.

If you legitimately think that then you are absolutely blind.

[Ifreann]

America has never lived up to its foundational values, but it is rather closer now than at any point, I dare say, in the past.

What are you talking about?

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Freedom of speech has definitely held up. You just can't protest conscription because it would be irresponsible to yell fire in a crowded theatre!

You can protest conscription...

[Slarvainian]

What are you talking about?

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Freedom of speech has definitely held up. You just can't protest conscription because it would be irresponsible to yell fire in a crowded theatre!

You can protest conscription...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

Background for my attempt at a joke.

[Ifreann]

America has never lived up to its foundational values, but it is rather closer now than at any point, I dare say, in the past.

If you legitimately think that then you are absolutely blind.

I welcome any enlightenment you can offer me.

[Farnhamia]

Sure you don't.



I might've been born at night, but I wasn't born last night.



Sorry to burst your bubble, hon, but the only person who seems to be confused about my sexuality is you.



If it'll make you feel better to cry about my identity, you don't need my permission.

No worries, I'll save my tears for something with a little more importance, but believe me when I say it really is sad. I don't know why or how you grew up like this but I hope you get these issues sorted out soon and be able to live life at your fullest, because if you get upset when people refer to you as a certain pronoun there's clearly something wrong somewhere.

*** Warned for flaming. *** It is possible to argue against the decision in New Jersey without attacking other players personally.

[Gondlaura]

Should’ve happened s long time ago

[Vassenor]

Also apparently learning not to be a right shit to other people isn't a life skill any more.

I just think America lost it's values and needs to find them again.

#allmenarecreatedequal

[Karu Nadu]

Wasn't this thread locked?

[The Emerald Legion]

What are you talking about?

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Not true in the least. But continue simplifying our history so as to ignore counter examples if you want.

[Slarvainian]

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Not true in the least. But continue simplifying our history so as to ignore counter examples if you want.

I think Ifreann's language here is nuanced enough that this is actually quite correct. A certain class had most the power and over two centuries that has improved but we have a ways to go.

So are we still in 1776 or are we completely egalitarian now?

[Christian Confederation]

Our family values.
And I agree professional coffee is are but they only said coffee shop.

If the family values part was in response to me, what values? Family values is a loose conceptual term to describe the current or past generalized recommendations for raising a strong family. Hundread and fifty years ago that meant a husband had to be the property owner and there was even a practice of shaming the husband if he were to be abused by his wife. It's a nonsensical statement to use today as values range from Mormon polygamy to open-love relationships inspired by deconstructionist queer theory.

I mean the Nuclear family. a Mother, Father, and kids.

[The Emerald Legion]

Not true in the least. But continue simplifying our history so as to ignore counter examples if you want.

I think Ifreann's language here is nuanced enough that this is actually quite correct. A certain class had most the power and over two centuries that has improved but we have a ways to go.

So are we still in 1776 or are we completely egalitarian now?

Neither. However the WASP phenomenon is a relatively recent one. It's not something the nation was born with.

[Major-Tom]

If the family values part was in response to me, what values? Family values is a loose conceptual term to describe the current or past generalized recommendations for raising a strong family. Hundread and fifty years ago that meant a husband had to be the property owner and there was even a practice of shaming the husband if he were to be abused by his wife. It's a nonsensical statement to use today as values range from Mormon polygamy to open-love relationships inspired by deconstructionist queer theory.

I mean the Nuclear family. a Mother, Father, and kids.

It's a traditional model that won't go away anytime soon. But, honestly, the single most consequential thing for the emotional and occupational success(es) of a child is a loving family and community. One can have a loving family with two fathers, two mothers, hell even grandparents, aunts, uncles, so long as the kids are taught the right values and life lessons.

[Dogmeat]

If the family values part was in response to me, what values? Family values is a loose conceptual term to describe the current or past generalized recommendations for raising a strong family. Hundread and fifty years ago that meant a husband had to be the property owner and there was even a practice of shaming the husband if he were to be abused by his wife. It's a nonsensical statement to use today as values range from Mormon polygamy to open-love relationships inspired by deconstructionist queer theory.

I mean the Nuclear family. a Mother, Father, and kids.

So that's pretty much an artifact of the 1950s. For most of American history, people lived in larger familial groups.

[Vassenor]

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Not true in the least. But continue simplifying our history so as to ignore counter examples if you want.

So what are the true founding values of America then?

[Christian Confederation]

I mean the Nuclear family. a Mother, Father, and kids.

It's a traditional model that won't go away anytime soon. But, honestly, the single most consequential thing for the emotional and occupational success(es) of a child is a loving family and community. One can have a loving family with two fathers, two mothers, hell even grandparents, aunts, uncles, so long as the kids are taught the right values and life lessons.

I agree minus the first two.

[Ifreann]

The values set out in the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain rights, among these life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." When those words first slid into King George's DMs, only sufficiently-wealthy white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men enjoyed anything close to those rights. The situation has improved in the last two centuries, but you still have a ways to go.

Not true in the least. But continue simplifying our history so as to ignore counter examples if you want.

Please do provide counter-examples. I'd love to learn about a handful of deists or other rich white Europeans who had political power whose existence totally destroy my point. Maybe there were one or two free black men? Or maybe a notable woman who was allowed nominal ownership of her late husband's property?

---

I think Ifreann's language here is nuanced enough that this is actually quite correct. A certain class had most the power and over two centuries that has improved but we have a ways to go.

So are we still in 1776 or are we completely egalitarian now?

Neither. However the WASP phenomenon is a relatively recent one. It's not something the nation was born with.

Cool, got it on my first guess.

[Karu Nadu]

It's a traditional model that won't go away anytime soon. But, honestly, the single most consequential thing for the emotional and occupational success(es) of a child is a loving family and community. One can have a loving family with two fathers, two mothers, hell even grandparents, aunts, uncles, so long as the kids are taught the right values and life lessons.

I agree minus the first two.

Why?
Explain now, don't ignore.

[Christian Confederation]

I agree minus the first two.

Why?
Explain now, don't ignore.

Because you learn many things from your mother and father.
In my case my mom and grandfather/ Uncles because my dad left us for his girlfriend.

This forum has been interesting, now if anyone wants my telagram box is open for productive conversation like a few of y'all have already figured out.

[Vassenor]

Why?
Explain now, don't ignore.

Because you learn many things from your mother and father.
In my case my mom and grandfather/ Uncles because my dad left us for his girlfriend.

This forum has been interesting, now if anyone wants my telagram box is open for productive conversation like a few of y'all have already figured out.

So how does having two mothers or two fathers get in the way of that?