New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[Ors Might]

The fact that I like guys and gals has never been an integral part of my sense of self. Just something that is.

Then maybe the only benefit to you personally would be the simple benefit of knowing more about the world you live in, and it would be other people who would benefit from a less bigoted society.

No more ridiculous than the idea than Bucchan being in the closet is important somehow.

On the contrary, it is vastly more ridiculous.

Sure, though I think that LGBT history would be better covered as an elective. Perhaps we could do something similar to foreign languages and require that students take at least one civil rights elective to graduate, along the lines of either race, gender, or sexuality. Might end up doing more overall. Also, while ignorance certainly doesn’t help with bigotry, I know first hand that clearing up misconceptions doesn’t always help.

Something that has an extremely small chance of helping me or something that has absolutelt zero chance of helping me. Hmmmm.

[Cekoviu]

If you think that that's all there is to LGBT history then clearly you do need a class.

Enlighten me then, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

Stonewall
Alan Turing
Obergefell v. Hodges
Pre-colonial history of Asia and Africa, including gay Han emperors, lesbian relationships in Lesotho, Etoro beliefs of heterosexuality being a sin(!), and Pepi II of Egypt
Alexander the Great
Pre-Nazi Berlin

[Grenartia]

Is that supposed to trigger me into silence or something? Because if so, you failed. Epically.

No, it's not. I know you people feel attacked for the stupidest reasons because a lot of you are very insecure, but fear not, I was just letting you know that I find it funny.

You and I, and everyone else in this thread right now know that's just you projecting your inner demons onto me.

[The New California Republic]

What does "gay" mean then, loving people of the same sex as you? A lot of LGBT people don't just have platonic relationships, the part where they put things in their pooper has to be included as an important part of the defintion.
Once again, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

TIL that lesbians do that.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Tbh, rather boring history for my tastes, but that’s just me. Rather learn something that has more action like war or politics, but as I said everybody has their own interests. Honestly I don’t care about it at all, unless they make it mandatory. Most history classes these days are becoming less mandatory, and it would honestly upset me, that if they cherry pick this one, because of political reasoning.

The Stonewall Riots and White Night Riots have plenty in the way of action and excitement if that is what you are looking for...

Civil discourse has never been my fancy, sorry. The only ones that strike me as awesome are the crazy ones like the revolt in justinians reign that name aludes me. Other then that, I find them pretty drab for the most part, unless you tie in all out rebellions.

That being said, SD_Films points out a strong point that I can agree to, and it resonates with me pretty well. Being autistic, I can see where he's coming from and if there was a autism history class, I would not approve, as that would make me feeling like there covering my trait and its history for the sake of pandering alone.

Other than that, eh, wouldn't care. Its a class, with a curriculum. Sure it panders, but in the end of the day most folk take history classes to sit on their ass.

[Cekoviu]

TIL that lesbians do that.

some of us do...

[Grenartia]

Enlighten me then, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

Stonewall
Alan Turing
Obergefell v. Hodges
Pre-colonial history of Asia and Africa, including gay Han emperors, lesbian relationships in Lesotho, Etoro beliefs of heterosexuality being a sin(!), and Pepi II of Egypt
Alexander the Great
Pre-Nazi Berlin

Is it wrong that I misread "Pepi" as "Pepsi"?

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Enlighten me then, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

Stonewall
Alan Turing
Obergefell v. Hodges
Pre-colonial history of Asia and Africa, including gay Han emperors, lesbian relationships in Lesotho, Etoro beliefs of heterosexuality being a sin(!), and Pepi II of Egypt
Alexander the Great
Pre-Nazi Berlin

>not mentioning the bazillion Indian sculptures featuring homosexual scenes, the rulers of Muslim Iberia composing poems for their young male lovers, or the entirety of Thai sexual history

mkay

[Ors Might]

Buddy, I don’t know what to tell you other than the fact that I was never looking to be represented in a history book. Seems like a good chunk of mankind’s fuckups get put in there. Ain’t healthy to be seeking validation and identity from it while also piling on top the natural hormonal distress that comes with exploring and accepting your sexuality.

I came to terms with who I am because I had friends to support me, without knowing about gays throwing bricks or one of the more assholish presidents being of a certain persuasion.

That's okay and it's great that you don't want or need to be represented. It's just that that doesn't apply for a significant number of us.

My point is that if you’re looking for validation from a history book, there might be the chance that you don’t have the healthiest conception of your personal identity. We aren’t talking about children being able to see themselves in their shows. We’re talking about education. Electives are the way to go here.

[The New California Republic]

TIL that lesbians do that.

some of us do...

Nvm then.

[Grenartia]

TIL that lesbians do that.

You might wanna fix that quote.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

TIL that lesbians do that.

some of us do...

I’m disturbed, but confused.

I don’t wanna know, but at the same time I already know.

[Ors Might]

some of us do...

I’m disturbed, but confused.

I don’t wanna know, but at the same time I already know.

Tfw you already know what man was never meant to know.

[The New California Republic]

TIL that lesbians do that.

You might wanna fix that quote.

Oops! Sorry. One of the pitfalls of using a mobile device to post when I am on the go.

EDIT: and done. I hate manipulating and shifting quote nesting on my phone.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I’m disturbed, but confused.

I don’t wanna know, but at the same time I already know.

Tfw you already know what man was never meant to know.

What if I wanna know, though?

Knowledge is knowledge my dude, even if it doesn’t concern me!

[Vojelneit]

TIL that lesbians do that.

By LGBT I was referring to gays. I don't lose too much time using the correct terms for everything because that's how you banalise these things. Yes lesbians rub their kittens together which isn't much more noble than a man shoving something up his pooper.

No, it's not. I know you people feel attacked for the stupidest reasons because a lot of you are very insecure, but fear not, I was just letting you know that I find it funny.

You and I, and everyone else in this thread right now know that's just you projecting your inner demons onto me.

I assure you I have no reason to project my inner demons onto you, I'm just being a good sport and laughing your very confused sexuality off, I think that's better than crying about it despite how sad it is to witness.

Enlighten me then, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

Stonewall
Alan Turing
Obergefell v. Hodges
Pre-colonial history of Asia and Africa, including gay Han emperors, lesbian relationships in Lesotho, Etoro beliefs of heterosexuality being a sin(!), and Pepi II of Egypt
Alexander the Great
Pre-Nazi Berlin

So you're basically focusing on a certain aspect of a person or a culture? Why is that important or relevant? There are so much more historically relevant things to learn about a culture than the norms they defined for sexuality, really.

[Grenartia]

That's okay and it's great that you don't want or need to be represented. It's just that that doesn't apply for a significant number of us.

My point is that if you’re looking for validation from a history book,

Not really what's being argued for, but I'll bite anyways.

there might be the chance that you don’t have the healthiest conception of your personal identity.

That's kind of the point, is because people in marginalized groups tend to be stigmatized. Stigmatization doesn't lead to very many healthy outcomes. Knowing the history of a group you're in can only be a good thing, by providing insights that can lead to healthy outcomes.

We aren’t talking about children being able to see themselves in their shows. We’re talking about education. Electives are the way to go here.

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing your point. If you agree that its important for children to be able to see themselves in their shows, then you should also agree that they should be able to see themselves in their own history classes.

[The New California Republic]

The Stonewall Riots and White Night Riots have plenty in the way of action and excitement if that is what you are looking for...

Civil discourse has never been my fancy, sorry. The only ones that strike me as awesome are the crazy ones like the revolt in justinians reign that name aludes me. Other then that, I find them pretty drab for the most part, unless you tie in all out rebellions.

"Civil discourse" is a hell of a euphemism for setting cars alight.

[Holy Tedalonia]

We aren’t talking about children being able to see themselves in their shows. We’re talking about education. Electives are the way to go here.

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing your point. If you agree that its important for children to be able to see themselves in their shows, then you should also agree that they should be able to see themselves in their own history classes.

Electives = choose your own classes

[Grenartia]

You and I, and everyone else in this thread right now know that's just you projecting your inner demons onto me.

I assure you I have no reason to project my inner demons onto you,

Sure you don't.

I'm just being a good sport

I might've been born at night, but I wasn't born last night.

and laughing your very confused sexuality off

Sorry to burst your bubble, hon, but the only person who seems to be confused about my sexuality is you.

I think that's better than crying about it despite how sad it is to witness.

If it'll make you feel better to cry about my identity, you don't need my permission.

[Grenartia]

Not really what's being argued for, but I'll bite anyways.

That's kind of the point, is because people in marginalized groups tend to be stigmatized. Stigmatization doesn't lead to very many healthy outcomes. Knowing the history of a group you're in can only be a good thing, by providing insights that can lead to healthy outcomes.



I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing your point. If you agree that its important for children to be able to see themselves in their shows, then you should also agree that they should be able to see themselves in their own history classes.

Electives = choose your own classes

I mean, that sounds good on paper, but in instances like this, it doesn't sufficiently broaden the student's horizons.

[Vojelneit]

I assure you I have no reason to project my inner demons onto you,

Sure you don't.

I'm just being a good sport

I might've been born at night, but I wasn't born last night.

and laughing your very confused sexuality off

Sorry to burst your bubble, hon, but the only person who seems to be confused about my sexuality is you.

I think that's better than crying about it despite how sad it is to witness.

If it'll make you feel better to cry about my identity, you don't need my permission.

No worries, I'll save my tears for something with a little more importance, but believe me when I say it really is sad. I don't know why or how you grew up like this but I hope you get these issues sorted out soon and be able to live life at your fullest, because if you get upset when people refer to you as a certain pronoun there's clearly something wrong somewhere.

[Ifreann]

Is that supposed to trigger me into silence or something? Because if so, you failed. Epically.

No, it's not. I know you people feel attacked for the stupidest reasons because a lot of you are very insecure, but fear not, I was just letting you know that I find it funny.

Well you appear to think that being LGBT just means that one puts things in one's ass, so I think you'd need to start at the most basic possible level and first learn what "gay" even is.

What does "gay" mean then, loving people of the same sex as you?

Yes, romantically and/or sexually. There may be hope for you yet.

A lot of LGBT people don't just have platonic relationships, the part where they put things in their pooper has to be included as an important part of the defintion.

Shocking though this may be for you to learn, anal sex is not a defining feature of homosexuality.

Once again, what's so important that we need to know about these people?

One should know about the people you share society with, and you specifically are continuing to demonstrate nothing but ignorance.

---

Then maybe the only benefit to you personally would be the simple benefit of knowing more about the world you live in, and it would be other people who would benefit from a less bigoted society.


On the contrary, it is vastly more ridiculous.

Sure, though I think that LGBT history would be better covered as an elective. Perhaps we could do something similar to foreign languages and require that students take at least one civil rights elective to graduate, along the lines of either race, gender, or sexuality. Might end up doing more overall. Also, while ignorance certainly doesn’t help with bigotry, I know first hand that clearing up misconceptions doesn’t always help.

It certainly won't help if you insist on only clearing up the misconceptions of people who elect to take the LGBT history course and refuse to educate every student on the subject. Do you imagine that society would be better off if only, say, 20% of people learned about the Holocaust? If that was only included in a Jewish History elective class?

Something that has an extremely small chance of helping me or something that has absolutelt zero chance of helping me. Hmmmm.

Have you considered that perhaps this isn't about you?

[Holy Tedalonia]

Electives = choose your own classes

I mean, that sounds good on paper, but in instances like this, it doesn't sufficiently broaden the student's horizons.

Dude, there are the main course classes, and there are electives.

Math, Science, (Very Broad) History, and English...

Any you want to add LGBT History in this main course curriculum!?!?

[The New California Republic]

Stonewall
Alan Turing
Obergefell v. Hodges
Pre-colonial history of Asia and Africa, including gay Han emperors, lesbian relationships in Lesotho, Etoro beliefs of heterosexuality being a sin(!), and Pepi II of Egypt
Alexander the Great
Pre-Nazi Berlin

So you're basically focusing on a certain aspect of a person or a culture? Why is that important or relevant? There are so much more historically relevant things to learn about a culture than the norms they defined for sexuality, really.

Because that's what history as a subject does. It picks out certain events related to a specific area, because it is impossible to talk about absolutely everything. Sexuality is part of the human experience, and that makes the history of it relevant.