New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[Karu Nadu]

Alan Turing is a hero, not because he was openly gay, but because he helped win the war. However, that he was openly gay and prosecuted for that, and not exonerated until after his death, is often excluded in tellings of his life. All these reports would do is give children the full story, and a more rounded picture of people who were pretty great already.

I think Alan Turing was a hero because he helped win the war and was openly gay.

[Andsed]

Alan Turing is a hero, not because he was openly gay, but because he helped win the war. However, that he was openly gay and prosecuted for that, and not exonerated until after his death, is often excluded in tellings of his life. All these reports would do is give children the full story, and a more rounded picture of people who were pretty great already.

Yes, Alan Turing was a war hero and is likely singlehandedly responsible for placing the D-Day invasion in a strategic area that we could have won against. For that, nothing but applause should be given regardless of his sex life.

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

Wow you really think Alan Turing deserved to be punished for doing the horrible thing of having a consensual relationship with another man?

[Karu Nadu]

Alan Turing is a hero, not because he was openly gay, but because he helped win the war. However, that he was openly gay and prosecuted for that, and not exonerated until after his death, is often excluded in tellings of his life. All these reports would do is give children the full story, and a more rounded picture of people who were pretty great already.

Yes, Alan Turing was a war hero and is likely singlehandedly responsible for placing the D-Day invasion in a strategic area that we could have won against. For that, nothing but applause should be given regardless of his sex life.

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

What's your problem with gay people?

[Aellex]

You're doing a report on someone not because of what he did but because of his skin color.

See and I do I understand that argument
But let me try to put it like this. Imagine in France there was a a trend of never really talking about French Catholics. Obviously they are a majority throughout the nations history so you’ll need to bear with this hypothetical
Would you not want schools to put a special focus on teaching students the importance of French Catholics throughout history?

Well, I see your point too but I still can't help but feel it's a form of slight to pick someone not because of how they touched you but just because they fit some criteria of inclusiveness.
As for your hypothetical, I would prefer having one little kid among hundreds picking Sainte Jeanne or Philippe le Bel for their report because of how they touched or inspired them personally than whole classes doing a biography of Charlemagne just because he fits the bill.

When I picked Nobunaga Oda or Alexis Comnène for some history essays I had to write, I didn't do it because they were asiatic or brown, I did it because I felt their life story was worth talking about.
I guess I may be putting too much hope as most students will not care the slightest bit about those things anyway but well.

[The South Falls]

Yes, Alan Turing was a war hero and is likely singlehandedly responsible for placing the D-Day invasion in a strategic area that we could have won against. For that, nothing but applause should be given regardless of his sex life.

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

Wow you really think Alan Turing deserved to be punished for doing the horrible thing of having a consensual relationship with another man?

Putting him in jail for years just for having sex with another man doesn't make sense. How does it affect anyone?

[The Free Joy State]

Alan Turing is a hero, not because he was openly gay, but because he helped win the war. However, that he was openly gay and prosecuted for that, and not exonerated until after his death, is often excluded in tellings of his life. All these reports would do is give children the full story, and a more rounded picture of people who were pretty great already.

I think Alan Turing was a hero because he helped win the war and was openly gay.

Fair enough. Being openly gay in the 50s was hugely brave.

The way they treated him was dreadful... The belated pardon seems rather small compensation.

[Kannap]

I wouldn't see why an LGBT history module anywhere in the U.S. wouldn't teach about Harvey Milk, he's a pretty important part of the LGBT rights movement, not just California.

Harvey Milk contributed nothing to history. NOTHING. He is completely undeserving of the idolization he receives and the fact that the LGB Lobby adores him reveals some of their underlying rot. The terrorists/assassins who shot him, IIRC, were not there to shoot him; he happened to be in the same building.

Dan White was certainly there to shoot and kill Mayor Moscone and Harvey Milk.

What's more, Milk was a sexual predator. He sought out runaway young adults and offered them a place to stay in exchange for wanton sex and two-man orgies whenever he asked for them. Then, once they turned thirty or so, he dumped them on the streets. When out and about, he paraded the latest man he was exploiting around to rub his sexual preferences in other people's faces. His most famous exploit, and also his only non-adult victim, is Jack McKinley, who was a runaway Milk took in, offering him food and shelter in exchange for sex on-demand.

I'm sure you'll no trouble citing sources.

[The South Falls]

Yes, Alan Turing was a war hero and is likely singlehandedly responsible for placing the D-Day invasion in a strategic area that we could have won against. For that, nothing but applause should be given regardless of his sex life.

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

What's your problem with gay people?

More pointedly, how does two men having sex in the privacy of their own home affect you?

[Aellex]

No, why would one has to do that? That just sounds dumbly racist to me, tbh.
Then again, Europe in general is way less race-focused than the US are so maybe it's just a cultural thing.

Researching a historical figure to learn more about them then presenting your findings to the class sounds "dumbly racist"?

If you're doing that because of their skin color, yes.
It would be another thing if you had to pick someone from a particular country or continent fitting the theme you're studding in class but if you're picking someone just because they're black, brown, blue or yellow than yes, it definitely sounds rather racist.

[Kannap]

Alan Turing is a hero, not because he was openly gay, but because he helped win the war. However, that he was openly gay and prosecuted for that, and not exonerated until after his death, is often excluded in tellings of his life. All these reports would do is give children the full story, and a more rounded picture of people who were pretty great already.

Yes, Alan Turing was a war hero and is likely singlehandedly responsible for placing the D-Day invasion in a strategic area that we could have won against. For that, nothing but applause should be given regardless of his sex life.

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

Heterosexuals could be celibate, why aren't they?

[Karu Nadu]

Wow you really think Alan Turing deserved to be punished for doing the horrible thing of having a consensual relationship with another man?

Putting him in jail for years just for having sex with another man doesn't make sense. How does it affect anyone?

They were terribly scared of the "Gay Menace" at the time.

[The South Falls]

Oh by the way, incioni. It is the contributions of people who were LGBT to history, like Alan Turing. It is not at all forcing hetero kids to grovel and pray or exalting gay people as saviors or something.

[Aellex]

You're doing a report on someone not because of what he did but because of his skin color.

Doing a report on a someone who did something and was black, actually. Not some rando.

And yet you aren't choosing him because of the former but merely the later.
I'd find it more insulting for the people of his ethnicity than "empowering".

[Karu Nadu]

Researching a historical figure to learn more about them then presenting your findings to the class sounds "dumbly racist"?

If you're doing that because of their skin color, yes.
It would be another thing if you had to pick someone from a particular country or continent fitting the theme you're studding in class but if you're picking someone just because they're black, brown, blue or yellow than yes, it definitely sounds rather racist.

So, researching a person who was part of the civil rights movement is "dumbly racist".

You are, in a sense researching them because of their race.

Oh by the way, incioni. It is the contributions of people who were LGBT to history, like Alan Turing. It is not at all forcing hetero kids to grovel and pray or exalting gay people as saviors or something.

Yes, we must worship the g@e.

[Kavagrad]

Oh by the way, incioni. It is the contributions of people who were LGBT to history, like Alan Turing. It is not at all forcing hetero kids to grovel and pray or exalting gay people as saviors or something.

But that doesn't make a good strawman, does it?

[Valrifell]

Doing a report on a someone who did something and was black, actually. Not some rando.

And yet you aren't choosing him because of the former but merely the later.
I'd find it more insulting for the people of his ethnicity than "empowering".

No, it's a mixture of the two.

[Godular]

Oh by the way, incioni. It is the contributions of people who were LGBT to history, like Alan Turing. It is not at all forcing hetero kids to grovel and pray or exalting gay people as saviors or something.

But that doesn't make a good strawman, does it?

I'd say the bigger strawman is their little martyrdom complex against the mods.

[Internationalist Bastard]

See and I do I understand that argument
But let me try to put it like this. Imagine in France there was a a trend of never really talking about French Catholics. Obviously they are a majority throughout the nations history so you’ll need to bear with this hypothetical
Would you not want schools to put a special focus on teaching students the importance of French Catholics throughout history?

Well, I see your point too but I still can't help but feel it's a form of slight to pick someone not because of how they touched you but just because they fit some criteria of inclusiveness.
As for your hypothetical, I would prefer having one little kid among hundreds picking Sainte Jeanne or Philippe le Bel for their report because of how they touched or inspired them personally than whole classes doing a biography of Charlemagne just because he fits the bill.

When I picked Nobunaga Oda or Alexis Comnène for some history essays I had to write, I didn't do it because they were asiatic or brown, I did it because I felt their life story was worth talking about.
I guess I may be putting too much hope as most students will not care the slightest bit about those things anyway but well.

That’s pretty much it
You can’t expect bored high school students to not just pick George Washington or Ben Franklin
You make them research a person who fell into a minority they are more likely to end up picking someone they didn’t know about
I know I sat through a thousand reports on George Washington Carver

[Karu Nadu]

Doing a report on a someone who did something and was black, actually. Not some rando.

And yet you aren't choosing him because of the former but merely the later.
I'd find it more insulting for the people of his ethnicity than "empowering".

She didn't even give any context towards why she was researching such a person.

Also, I doubt people find it "insulting" that somebody is researching somebody of their race. For example, if somebody told me they were researching Gandhi, I wouldn't be insulted.

[Kannap]

Yes, we would be discussing problems faced by the LGBT community. The police raids and brutality on LGBT communities by raiding and arresting everybody found in gay bars, among other reasons why the LGBT community today still doesn't trust or favor police officers (see the "no cops at Pride" discussions every time Pride happens); the members of our community historically brutally murdered, assassinated, left in the middle of nowhere tied to a fence to die, brutally beaten; the members of our community who were lost to the AIDs crisis because society didn't want to do anything to save our fellow citizens and human beings because they're doing icky butt stuff. These are all things I'd love to see discussed in a conversation about LGBT history.

And this will end in, what? A Gay Holocaust Remembrance Museum, where all heterosexual children will be forced to kneel, grovel and beg for forgiveness for 90 minutes, twice a week, because someone somewhere killed a homosexual?

Is there a museum anywhere where a majority of the population are required to bow, spend 180 minutes a week in meditation and remembrance? Otherwise are you just enjoying making stuff up?

The police raided a gay bar - okay, guess what? In terms of "bad police treatment", police have been a lot less nice to cannabis users, as a demographic, and I still don't mind them doing "icky THC stuff" but I also don't need the children of my country being taught about the great historical contributions of 1-3 high-functioning stoners, while glossing over the social malaise that hangs over the average such person.

Police didn't just raid a gay bar, they did it and they did it again and they did it again and they're still doing it to this day. The most recent one, I think somebody linked earlier in this very thread, was a few years back in Texas. LGBT people have historically been treated like shit, much like other minorities, in America and this is why our history - like the history of other minorities - deserves to be heard.

If you think that policies to try to indoctrinate and shame people into thinking that you are good for society are a good idea, you are wrong.

Feel free to point out where I suggested anything like that.

Firstly, you are not good for society. Just like cannabis users, you are a demographic that has more problems than the rest of society.

This comparison of LGBT people to cannabis users makes no sense. LGBT people are more equivalent to persons of color and women in how they've historically been treated poorly until having to finally break and fight for their rights.

It is reasonable for you to want to be tolerated and left alone to do your stuff. There is literally no one left on earth, in any political party, who is looking to criminally punish your behavior.

That's so immensely false that I can't fathom how you believe such a thing.

[Kannap]

Researching a historical figure to learn more about them then presenting your findings to the class sounds "dumbly racist"?

If you're doing that because of their skin color, yes.
It would be another thing if you had to pick someone from a particular country or continent fitting the theme you're studding in class but if you're picking someone just because they're black, brown, blue or yellow than yes, it definitely sounds rather racist.

Students aren't doing it because of their skin color. They're learning about people who have had major impacts in American history - and oh, they happen to be black. Is it hard to believe that there are enough persons of color in history who have done important stuff that students aren't scraping the barrel and doing reports on the same four people?

[Karu Nadu]

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

I actually have work to do, so I'll just let you take it from here.

In conclusion, the most humane thing we could do for homosexuals would be to understand that they have a sexual disorder

That's actually hilarious dude.

[Godular]

However, the man committed a crime and got a just punishment. Alan Turing could have been celibate and gone down in history as the greatest computing mastermind in history, with no baggage. I do not, and should not, pity him for lacking the discipline to control his body.

I actually have work to do, so I'll just let you take it from here.

In conclusion, the most humane thing we could do for homosexuals would be to understand that they have a sexual disorder, try to reduce fetal exposure to synthetic estrogen, and treat them as genuine human beings who deserve compassion and understanding, and who should be integrated into society as much as possible.

Like "people with autism", we do not need to punish these people or send them to camps, we just need to understand how they got their condition, try to prevent it, and try to deal with people who have this condition now in a way that is respectful to them but that also protects the rest of society from their behavior disorders.

In conclusion, "gay adoption" is a huge risk of sexual abuse of minors, and if I see another person banned or deleted for respectfully expressing a personal opinion, I will share your javascript vulnerability with every racist troll on 4chan, 8chan and the onionchans.

I'll be watching.

Have a nice day, folks.

Aw look, now he's making threats.

[The South Falls]

And we end with a hack threat

[Aellex]

If you're doing that because of their skin color, yes.
It would be another thing if you had to pick someone from a particular country or continent fitting the theme you're studding in class but if you're picking someone just because they're black, brown, blue or yellow than yes, it definitely sounds rather racist.

Students aren't doing it because of their skin color. They're learning about people who have had major impacts in American history - and oh, they happen to be black. Is it hard to believe that there are enough persons of color in history who have done important stuff that students aren't scraping the barrel and doing reports on the same four people?

Well, if you must insist on having people pick them because of their skin color rather than their aforementioned impact, you're almost making me wonder, yes.