New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[Kannap]

Do you also disapprove of the 'lifestyle' of persons of color because of their choosing to live life with their skin color?

I mean, no one is forcing you to put it in another man's ass even if you're attracted to them, tho.

That's not the issue, is it though? The issue is you don't choose your skin color, sex, sexuality, those are things you're born with. So discrimination, lack of equal rights, and harsh treatment of people for things beyond their control is silly.

[Aellex]

Do you think there isn't a dehumanization of people of the LGBT+ community?

I don't think he knows why Alan Turing died young.

Nibba got iced most likely. Maybe senor hilter got him all the way from Argentina. :^)

Except your response reads as if you misunderstood what I said.

Funny because that's exactly what yours do.

[Kannap]

Interesting. I don't understand, as they have only existed as a group for 30 years.

Funny that you think gay people haven't been around since the beginning of the human race - perhaps before the human race since we know homosexuality exists in pretty much every species.

[Neutraligon]

You are aware that homosexuals and trans individuals where killed because they where homosexual and trans. That there was a large part of our history where politicians used fear of gays as political points. That homosexual marriage was just one part of the civil rights that trans and homosexuals have been fighting for. That trans individuals can still be treated as lesser than human due to their being trans (they can be fired for being trans, denied housing for being trans, prevented from adopting at certain places for being trans, etc).

While I agree with teaching lgbt history as part of history, I have to point out people have been killed for all sorts of things. Sure I don’t think that people have been killed for having chest hair at quite the same rate as trans people do, it’s still a shitty argument.

Then I assume we should ignore lynching?

The cultural impetus behind it is largely gone and it’s currently being used as political points.

umm, no it isn't Trans individuals are still attacked due to being trans.

The gay community did everyone a disservice by not campaigning to remove government recognition of marriage instead.

I disagree, strongly.

The only place where anti discrimination laws should apply is government as it’s the only sector that’s there for everyone.

I also disagree with this, strongly.

[Aellex]

I mean, no one is forcing you to put it in another man's ass even if you're attracted to them, tho.

That's not the issue, is it though? The issue is you don't choose your skin color, sex, sexuality, those are things you're born with. So discrimination, lack of equal rights, and harsh treatment of people for things beyond their control is silly.

Pedos don't control their urges neither yet I doubt anyone would say that it's ok for them to have those feelings, even if they don't act on them; and especially if they do try to act on them.

Before you use it as a cheap way to disregard the analogy, no I'm not equating gays to pedophile, just pointing out how shitty your argument of "can't help those feelings" is.

[Neutraligon]

That's not the issue, is it though? The issue is you don't choose your skin color, sex, sexuality, those are things you're born with. So discrimination, lack of equal rights, and harsh treatment of people for things beyond their control is silly.

Pedos don't control their urges neither yet I doubt anyone would say that it's ok for them to have those feelings, even if they don't act on them; and especially if they do try to act on them.

Before you use it as a cheap way to disregard the analogy, no I'm not equating gays to pedophile, just pointing out how shitty your argument of "can't help those feelings" is.

And there is the second common thing when it comes to homosexuality, comparing them to pedos, I almost have bingo.
To put it simply, yes you are comparing homosexuals to pedos. if you wanted you could choose another attraction, like say necrophilia, instead you chose pedos.

[Valrifell]

I don't know why you think you have the authority to even comment on this topic if you're unaware of what Stonewall is.

Jesus Christ dude, educate yourself. This is an American discussion (or did you think we were talking about the channel island and not the state), do your homework. This is some basic stuff that everyone else in the thread was at least familiar with.

"U dOn'T hAvE tHe AuThOrItY!"

M8 pls, I don't need to care about your history, especially not every tiny event specific to your community in particular, to tell you that the shit you're defending is retarded.

I don't understand your thought process of

"I don't know American history, I don't want to learn American history, in fact I pretty much despise Americans. ... Let me comment in this thread about whether or not to teach this thing in American schools with unique American context."

Really boggles the noggin.

[Kannap]

That's not the issue, is it though? The issue is you don't choose your skin color, sex, sexuality, those are things you're born with. So discrimination, lack of equal rights, and harsh treatment of people for things beyond their control is silly.

Pedos don't control their urges neither yet I doubt anyone would say that it's ok for them to have those feelings, even if they don't act on them; and especially if they do try to act on them.

Before you use it as a cheap way to disregard the analogy, no I'm not equating gays to pedophile, just pointing out how shitty your argument of "can't help those feelings" is.

Ah, you've covered all the awful anti-LGBT argument bases, from "gays are icky because they do it in the butt" to comparing gay people to pedophiles (you saying you aren't doing exactly what you're doing doesn't absolve you of what you're doing). I didn't have any respect for your argument in the first place, but we're done here.

[The Pan-Asian National Coalition]

Interesting. I don't understand, as they have only existed as a group for 30 years.

Individually, they have existed since the dawn of humanity.

Organized groups only really began rising up in the 60s however.

True

[Kannap]

"U dOn'T hAvE tHe AuThOrItY!"

M8 pls, I don't need to care about your history, especially not every tiny event specific to your community in particular, to tell you that the shit you're defending is retarded.

I don't understand your thought process of

"I don't know American history, I don't want to learn American history, in fact I pretty much despise Americans. ... Let me comment in this thread about whether or not to teach this thing in American schools with unique American context."

Really boggles the noggin.

Just a normal Wednesday night on NSG, innit?

[Aellex]

Pedos don't control their urges neither yet I doubt anyone would say that it's ok for them to have those feelings, even if they don't act on them; and especially if they do try to act on them.

Before you use it as a cheap way to disregard the analogy, no I'm not equating gays to pedophile, just pointing out how shitty your argument of "can't help those feelings" is.

And there is the second common thing when it comes to homosexuality, comparing them to pedos, I almost have bingo.
To put it simply, yes you are comparing homosexuals to pedos. if you wanted you could choose another attraction, like say necrophilia, instead you chose pedos.

Ah, it really is Pavlovian to you. Or maybe just a very lazy cop out.

[Aellex]

Pedos don't control their urges neither yet I doubt anyone would say that it's ok for them to have those feelings, even if they don't act on them; and especially if they do try to act on them.

Before you use it as a cheap way to disregard the analogy, no I'm not equating gays to pedophile, just pointing out how shitty your argument of "can't help those feelings" is.

Ah, you've covered all the awful anti-LGBT argument bases, from "gays are icky because they do it in the butt" to comparing gay people to pedophiles (you saying you aren't doing exactly what you're doing doesn't absolve you of what you're doing). I didn't have any respect for your argument in the first place, but we're done here.

You don't need so blatant when you're admitting you're wrong and have no response.

[Neutraligon]

And there is the second common thing when it comes to homosexuality, comparing them to pedos, I almost have bingo.
To put it simply, yes you are comparing homosexuals to pedos. if you wanted you could choose another attraction, like say necrophilia, instead you chose pedos.

Ah, it really is Pavlovian to you. Or maybe just a very lazy cop out.

Got an actual argument?
I mean so far all we have had from you is you do not care about nor know anything about American history, butt sex is icky, comparing homosexuals to pedos, and all of that in a thread about teaching American history in an American history class.

[Valrifell]

Ah, it really is Pavlovian to you. Or maybe just a very lazy cop out.

Got an actual argument?

I'm fairly certain he's not here in good faith.

[Woodfiredpizzas]

While I agree with teaching lgbt history as part of history, I have to point out people have been killed for all sorts of things. Sure I don’t think that people have been killed for having chest hair at quite the same rate as trans people do, it’s still a shitty argument.

Then I assume we should ignore lynching?

The cultural impetus behind it is largely gone and it’s currently being used as political points.

umm, no it isn't Trans individuals are still attacked due to being trans.

The gay community did everyone a disservice by not campaigning to remove government recognition of marriage instead.

I disagree, strongly.

The only place where anti discrimination laws should apply is government as it’s the only sector that’s there for everyone.

I also disagree with this, strongly.

Is murder a crime?

People get attacked for all sorts of reasons, just becauseits not 0 people got murdered for being trans doesn’t mean religious traditionalists hegemony that was behind the lynching and murder still exists.

My point is there’s an ambient level of violence where the historical subjugation of people disappears and standard shitty human behaviour lives.

[Kannap]

Ah, you've covered all the awful anti-LGBT argument bases, from "gays are icky because they do it in the butt" to comparing gay people to pedophiles (you saying you aren't doing exactly what you're doing doesn't absolve you of what you're doing). I didn't have any respect for your argument in the first place, but we're done here.

You don't need so blatant when you're admitting you're wrong and have no response.

More like I've heard all the anti-LGBT nonsense before, constantly, throughout my life. I'm tired of it and have learned that I don't have to deal with it if I don't want to, so I wish you a good day but I won't be entertaining your comparing me to pedophiles and believing I don't deserve equal rights that everybody else has the luxury of sharing.

[Neutraligon]

Then I assume we should ignore lynching? umm, no it isn't Trans individuals are still attacked due to being trans.

I disagree, strongly.

I also disagree with this, strongly.

Is murder a crime?

yes, but it was in the 60s too...and African Americans where murdered and lynched then.

People get attacked for all sorts of reasons, just becauseits not 0 people got murdered for being trans doesn’t mean religious traditionalists hegemony that was behind the lynching and murder still exists.

Once again, we should ignore the fact that lynching occurred and was part of our history.

My point is there’s an ambient level of violence where the historical subjugation of people disappears and standard shitty human behaviour lives.

Given the fact that attakcs on trans and homosexual people continue on to this day, that we still have US preachers preaching that lgbt individuals should be killed, that we have states trying to pass bathroom bills which place trans individuals in danger, yeah the historical subjugation still has not ended.

[Woodfiredpizzas]

Is murder a crime?

yes, but it was in the 60s too...and African Americans where murdered and lynched then.

People get attacked for all sorts of reasons, just becauseits not 0 people got murdered for being trans doesn’t mean religious traditionalists hegemony that was behind the lynching and murder still exists.

Once again, we should ignore the fact that lynching occurred and was part of our history.

My point is there’s an ambient level of violence where the historical subjugation of people disappears and standard shitty human behaviour lives.

Given the fact that attakcs on trans and homosexual people continue on to this day, that we still have US preachers preaching that lgbt individuals should be killed, that we have states trying to pass bathroom bills which place trans individuals in danger, yeah the historical subjugation still has not ended.

Are we doing better than we were before with that?
Is there still the hegemony that allows them to get away with it?

I’m not saying it didn’t happen.

People get killed for chewing with their mouth open. Are you going to give them a name and conclude that they need to be a protected group at the cost of other peoples freedom to associate?

Those preachers are shitty with shitty beliefs, that they exist isn’t a sign that the culture that caused the subjugation is still in power.

And the bathroom thing is just dumb all the way through.

[Karu Nadu]

Ah, you've covered all the awful anti-LGBT argument bases, from "gays are icky because they do it in the butt" to comparing gay people to pedophiles (you saying you aren't doing exactly what you're doing doesn't absolve you of what you're doing). I didn't have any respect for your argument in the first place, but we're done here.

You don't need so blatant when you're admitting you're wrong and have no response.

I guess we're at that point where nobody has a response. Alright, time to pack up and go home.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

You don't need so blatant when you're admitting you're wrong and have no response.

More like I've heard all the anti-LGBT nonsense before, constantly, throughout my life. I'm tired of it and have learned that I don't have to deal with it if I don't want to, so I wish you a good day but I won't be entertaining your comparing me to pedophiles and believing I don't deserve equal rights that everybody else has the luxury of sharing.

There is a key difference between pedophiles and homosexuals...

One harms people, the other doesn’t.

[The South Falls]

I mean teaching things like the Stonewall riots. Those are important to history.

Never heard of it nor do I care tbh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The time talking about it would be better spent on the Middle Ages or Renaissance, imho.

I could say "never heard of it and I don't care" to that as well. That's not what history is about.

[Neutraligon]

yes, but it was in the 60s too...and African Americans where murdered and lynched then.

Once again, we should ignore the fact that lynching occurred and was part of our history.


Given the fact that attakcs on trans and homosexual people continue on to this day, that we still have US preachers preaching that lgbt individuals should be killed, that we have states trying to pass bathroom bills which place trans individuals in danger, yeah the historical subjugation still has not ended.

Are we doing better than we were before with that?
Is there still the hegemony that allows them to get away with it?

I’m not saying it didn’t happen.

People get killed for chewing with their mouth open. Are you going to give them a name and conclude that they need to be a protected group at the cost of other peoples freedom to associate?

Those preachers are shitty with shitty beliefs, that they exist isn’t a sign that the culture that caused the subjugation is still in power.

And the bathroom thing is just dumb all the way through.

Things where better for blacks in the 60s they they where before slavery, that does not mean me ignore the lynching and things that happened in the 60s, nor do we ignore the de facto issues that continue to exist to this day...for either group. No, but then people can control their mouth, they cannot control their sexuality or their being trans. And unlike people who chew their mouths of, there was a history of violence and de-jure discrimination against both blacks and lgbt people. And...there are still people attempting to make de-jure discrimination against lgbt people. or where you not aware of the groups trying to make it ok to bully homosexuals in schools? And that they xist and are relatively common is a sign that the culture that caused the subjugation is still in power, as are those damned bathroom bills and the gay/trans panic defense which is still used today.

As to the freedom of association thing, that is for a different thread.

[Slarvainian]

Do you also disapprove of the 'lifestyle' of persons of color because of their choosing to live life with their skin color?

I mean, no one is forcing you to put it in another man's ass even if you're attracted to them, tho.

The ability to have consensual sexual relations with another human being is a human right.

[Karu Nadu]

I mean, no one is forcing you to put it in another man's ass even if you're attracted to them, tho.

The ability to have consensual sexual relations with another human being is a human right.

Wonderful.

[Woodfiredpizzas]

Are we doing better than we were before with that?
Is there still the hegemony that allows them to get away with it?

I’m not saying it didn’t happen.

People get killed for chewing with their mouth open. Are you going to give them a name and conclude that they need to be a protected group at the cost of other peoples freedom to associate?

Those preachers are shitty with shitty beliefs, that they exist isn’t a sign that the culture that caused the subjugation is still in power.

And the bathroom thing is just dumb all the way through.

Things where better for blacks in the 60s they they where before slavery, that does not mean me ignore the lynching and things that happened in the 60s, nor do we ignore the de facto issues that continue to exist to this day...for either group. No, but then people can control their mouth, they cannot control their sexuality or their being trans. And unlike people who chew their mouths of, there was a history of violence and de-jure discrimination against both blacks and lgbt people. And...there are still people attempting to make de-jure discrimination against lgbt people. or where you not aware of the groups trying to make it ok to bully homosexuals in schools? And that they xist and are relatively common is a sign that the culture that caused the subjugation is still in power, as are those damned bathroom bills and the gay/trans panic defense.

Of course we don’t ignore the issues that exist for either group, we just shouldn’t deny someone else’s right to be a shitty person. It’s a treat the symptoms because all our treatments for the cause are wandering into unethical.

I’m absolutely down for enforcing anti discrimination across all government. And you will find that those in support of those bills are an ever shrinking minority who do not have the universality that they once had. Their continued existence isn’t the hegemony it once was.