New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I'm for teaching LGBTQ history, as long as they don't include rampant identity politics in the curriculum. This ain't a derail; it is my views on the subject of this thread. The others are simple examples on why I want ID politics to stay out.

Except the example you gave had nothing to do with identity politics as you defined it.

No, it's part of it. It does involve a political alliance of activists (many are probably of a particular minority) to promote their agenda, and they supposedly speak for marginalized groups. Just because the school took care of it because it went overboard into stupidity, doesn't change that.

Edit: Also, if you want to debate my interpretation, I say we take it to telegrams so we don't accidentally threadjack.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

We shouldn't tell anyone anything about historical figures. Maybe just a randomly asigned numerical code if you're lucky.

Or, we could make every text book an ad-lib.

Mad Libs textbooks! Enter your own historical figure's names, nation names, nouns, historical dates, etc.!

General MacArthur led an army of squirrels over the mountains to attack Toronto.

[Kannap]

And they're allowed to keep whining their little socks off, how does that de-legitimise LGBT history in any way?

In my mind, what de-legitimizes LGBT history is the fact that they aren't the majority and thus shouldn't dictate the narrative or what gets priority. This is very niche history that should arguably be relegated to an optional college course that doesn't count towards any degree.

Persons of color aren't the majority and therefore should still have separate drinking fountains or maybe we should still have slavery? See how foolish your idea sounds.

[Kannap]

Yeah I’m curious if anyone has any idea what the curriculum will actually entail

If it's like in California, they're going to mention Stonewall once. We also had Harvey Milk, but that probably wouldn't be in New Jersey. It isn't actually very much of LGBT history in California, but New Jersey might be different.

I wouldn't see why an LGBT history module anywhere in the U.S. wouldn't teach about Harvey Milk, he's a pretty important part of the LGBT rights movement, not just California.

[The New California Republic]

Mad Libs textbooks! Enter your own historical figure's names, nation names, nouns, historical dates, etc.!

General MacArthur led an army of squirrels over the mountains to attack Toronto.

The Mexicans attacked Sydney Harbor, causing The United Arab Emirates to enter World War III.

[Galloism]

General MacArthur led an army of squirrels over the mountains to attack Toronto.

The Mexicans attacked Sydney Harbor, causing The United Arab Emirates to enter World War III.

I would read that book.

[Kowani]

Please don't.

Thank you for deleting my previous account, but I think I will.

redaction issues

Here is the Incion official TL;DR of the unapproved opinion(tm) quoted above.

1. The government is attempting to brainwash young people, and I am sick of it.
2. I respect the rights of other people to do what they want, but I do not want the government to promote unhealthy lifestyles to children.
3. You can silence social conservatives, but we will always think that deviant (statistical term) sexual practices are bad for society.
4. I do not want these ideas to be forced onto the population, specifically children.
5. There is an unnamed dark force behind your movement, demonic in nature.
6. New sexual identities have been invented, which did not previously exist.
7. The original school of revolutionary communists in the USSR and Latin America shared my opinions on deviant sexual practices, and repressed them with State authority.
8. Though you claim to be tolerant, you do not tolerate dissenting opinions about what the State can teach my children. You seek to avoid honest debate and silence dissent.
9. I am likely to be censored for writing this.

In addition to discussing these ideas, I would also like to discuss the fact that you deleted my nation.

I see three options, going forward.

I could:

1) Explain to you what is wrong with your javascript, that it makes account deletion ineffective at silencing me for more than one minute, and give the patch to your sysadmin
2) Do nothing, and see how long it takes for your sysadmin to fix his own script, assuming he can even write javascript
3) Share this exploit on the vanilla chans and the onion chans and coordinate a raid of your forums

I think I'm a nice and reasonable guy, but civil discussion requires civil behavior from both sides. Your options, now, are:

1) Engage in a discussion of your arbitrary flow chart definition of "speech I do not like as trolling",
2) Abstain from this, and allow a genuine two-sided discussion of "LGBT History classes" in which more opinions are expressed than the one opinion held by social progressives with tens of thousands of posts.
3) See what the internet looks like when you decide to be rude and refuse to allow political discussion on the general forum of a game about politics.

Consider your situation carefully.

Comedy fuckin’ gold!

[Ifreann]

Except the example you gave had nothing to do with identity politics as you defined it.

No, it's part of it. It does involve a political alliance of activists (many are probably of a particular minority) to promote their agenda, and they supposedly speak for marginalized groups. Just because the school took care of it because it went overboard into stupidity, doesn't change that.

A teacher saying something you don't like is not any kind of political alliance, and you defined identity politics as a tendency of people to form political alliances based on some shared feature of their identity. The Christian right is identity politics. A teacher saying that white == racist isn't. Per your definition.

Edit: Also, if you want to debate my interpretation, I say we take it to telegrams so we don't accidentally threadjack.

What identity politics is is entirely relevant to this thread in which people are arguing that such and such a thing ought not be done because that would be identity politics gone too far.

[Kavagrad]

1) Engage in a discussion of your arbitrary flow chart definition of "speech I do not like as trolling

While you are considering your situation, I propose that the "arbitrary and opinionated" status of your banning and deletion policies can be measured in this simple way:

1) Review how many people, or how many accounts, are banned or deleted for writing things on the forum
2) Review the political content of those cases

From this review, you can come up with an answer to a reasonable question:

What is the general profile of the "forum writer who is banned for a timeframe, or deleted"? Is he/she generally socially conservative, or socially liberal?

Review your own data to determine if there is a trend of forum bans which conforms with silencing social conservative opinion and keeping it out of the narrow perimeters of authorized debate.

The correct place for that discussion is in the Moderation forum. Run along and stop wasting our time. We really don't care about your little problem with the mods, thanks!

[Andsed]

1) Engage in a discussion of your arbitrary flow chart definition of "speech I do not like as trolling

While you are considering your situation, I propose that the "arbitrary and opinionated" status of your banning and deletion policies can be measured in this simple way:

1) Review how many people, or how many accounts, are banned or deleted for writing things on the forum
2) Review the political content of those cases

From this review, you can come up with an answer to a reasonable question:

What is the general profile of the "forum writer who is banned for a timeframe, or deleted"? Is he/she generally socially conservative, or socially liberal?

Review your own data to determine if there is a trend of forum bans which conforms with silencing social conservative opinion and keeping it out of the narrow perimeters of authorized debate.

Ah yes the classic

"I was being a dick and got rightfully told off so now I'm mad and I'm going to make up stuff to claim the mods are biased against me and *insert group here*

[Farnhamia]

While you are considering your situation, I propose that the "arbitrary and opinionated" status of your banning and deletion policies can be measured in this simple way:

1) Review how many people, or how many accounts, are banned or deleted for writing things on the forum
2) Review the political content of those cases

From this review, you can come up with an answer to a reasonable question:

What is the general profile of the "forum writer who is banned for a timeframe, or deleted"? Is he/she generally socially conservative, or socially liberal?

Review your own data to determine if there is a trend of forum bans which conforms with silencing social conservative opinion and keeping it out of the narrow perimeters of authorized debate.

Ah yes the classic

"I was being a dick and got rightfully told off so now I'm mad and I'm going to make up stuff to claim the mods are biased against me and *insert group here*

Which isn't the topic, is it?

[The Free Joy State]

So... history?

Here's something about how the classes might look.

Apparently, the contributions of individuals with disabilities will also be acknowledged.

[Andsed]

Ah yes the classic

"I was being a dick and got rightfully told off so now I'm mad and I'm going to make up stuff to claim the mods are biased against me and *insert group here*

Which isn't the topic, is it?

No sorry Farn.

[The South Falls]

"I was being a dick and got rightfully told off so now I'm mad and I'm going to make up stuff to claim the mods are biased against me and *insert group here*

Well, firstly, I do support your right to call me a dick on this forum, and while I do not really feel the need to "flame" you in kind, I am troubled by the arbitrary distribution of this right.

I also support the right of anyone to "tell me off", rightfully or otherwise. What I dislike is seeing our long, poorly redacted poster friend being banned for "trolling" by posting what is his genuine opinion. I think we would have a more civil society in real life if we had a more civil society on the internet, and learned to discuss opposing points of view instead of silencing them.

You are just not at the right time. There are hundreds of social conservatives on this site. One of those that is truly racist, Saiwania, has only served one day of bans in 5 years. As long as you are not breaking the rules, you can survive. Btw, the mods have a long history of banning and deleting leftist posters.

[Internationalist Bastard]

So... history?

Here's something about how the classes might look.

Apparently, the contributions of individuals with disabilities will also be acknowledged.

Oh that’s a nice addition

[The New California Republic]

Here's something about how the classes might look.

Examples of classroom lessons are available online, including:

A lesson about the events and people involved in the Stonewall riots in New York City 50 years ago — a historic event that sparked the modern gay rights movement.

An activity in which students are each given a history card with an important event from LGBT history and are asked as a group to place the cards in chronological order and then write newspaper articles about them.

A classroom discussion about Alan Turing, a British mathematician often referred to as the father of the modern-day computer. He was openly gay and in the early 1950s was arrested and punished for his sexual orientation.

Looks good.

[Farnhamia]

Well, firstly, I do support your right to call me a dick on this forum, and while I do not really feel the need to "flame" you in kind, I am troubled by the arbitrary distribution of this right.

I also support the right of anyone to "tell me off", rightfully or otherwise. What I dislike is seeing our long, poorly redacted poster friend being banned for "trolling" by posting what is his genuine opinion. I think we would have a more civil society in real life if we had a more civil society on the internet, and learned to discuss opposing points of view instead of silencing them.

You are just not at the right time. There are hundreds of social conservatives on this site. One of those that is truly racist, Saiwania, has only served one day of bans in 5 years. As long as you are not breaking the rules, you can survive. Btw, the mods have a long history of banning and deleting leftist posters.

What did I just say about this?

[Internationalist Bastard]

In a sort of related topic that links back
Did anyone have to do a report on a black person in history in school? And what did you think about it, as I’d support doing the same thing with lgbt people

[Internationalist Bastard]

Which isn't the topic, is it?

The topic in this case should rightfully be the "queen of the anthill" mini-totalitarienne mentality of people who have nothing better to do than speed-post one government approved opinion after another until they are promoted to a moderator position, and then proceed to devolve their forum into an "all dissent is trolling" echo chamber of socially progressive thought.

Sigh
Take this moderation please
I really want to discuss the topic

[Andsed]

In a sort of related topic that links back
Did anyone have to do a report on a black person in history in school? And what did you think about it, as I’d support doing the same thing with lgbt people

I would also support something along those line.

[Dresderstan]

What did I just say about this?

Why do you feel like it is a good use of your time to tell other people on the internet that they should not discuss bans in the place that they happen?

Does it frustrate you, personally, that the technical incompetence of your sysadmin has deprived you of the ability to silence people who do not discuss things in the ways and places you want them to?

Because it's not the topic of the thread.

[Valrifell]

In a sort of related topic that links back
Did anyone have to do a report on a black person in history in school? And what did you think about it, as I’d support doing the same thing with lgbt people

I didn't, but I would support that and this.

[Internationalist Bastard]

What did I just say about this?

Why do you feel like it is a good use of your time to tell other people on the internet that they should not discuss bans in the place that they happen?

Does it frustrate you, personally, that the technical incompetence of your sysadmin has deprived you of the ability to silence people who do not discuss things in the ways and places you want them to?

There is a forum seperate where people can ask mods about decisions and create discussion to have them repealed
What does not help you position is ranting about the evils of moderation because of a moderators decision
I encourage you to take it up with moderation directly to discuss the situation with them

[The Free Joy State]

In a sort of related topic that links back
Did anyone have to do a report on a black person in history in school? And what did you think about it, as I’d support doing the same thing with lgbt people

I would also support something along those line.

I think that would be a good way to teach it.

Even though we don't really have Black History Month in the UK (not as part of the curriculum, or not when I was a child anyway), I seem to remember learning about Mary Seacole in lower high school (year seven). We also did a few weeks learning about the slave trade.

I think focusing on significant events and people would be a good way to teach history, which is the curriculum subject under discussion.

[Internationalist Bastard]

In a sort of related topic that links back
Did anyone have to do a report on a black person in history in school? And what did you think about it, as I’d support doing the same thing with lgbt people

I didn't, but I would support that and this.

Like Thomas Alexander Dumas is a man I have deep respect for and never would’ve known had I not written a report on him in 9th grade history