New Jersey to Teach LGBT History in Schools

[Unithonia]

As I've said, I just call it that
It what way does telling me I have no right to speak because I am white work with me being disruptive? When I challenged false stats presented, I received both of these responses. But you don't have to believe me, because my argument threatens your perfect little bubble.

To invoke that kind of extreme response from the teachers a student has to do something pretty bad that goes beyond normal discourse.

And this doesn't threaten me at all, I have no stake in your spat with your teachers.

Really? In what situation would I go so far that a teacher telling me to stop talking because I'm not American is justified?

[Vassenor]

Again with the buzzwords.

Again with the ignoring of my previous argument. Go and answer that, then we'll talk
Unless you can argue that a viable standard for an education system is to prefer the furthering of a political agenda over important history that is not being taught? Again, I'm all for it being a part of the curriculum, the LGBT community has faced horrid things. But having a class is a no no.

Who here has been arguing for furthering a political agenda?

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Good on New Jersey, hopefully this increases tolerance and understanding of LGBT individuals and the LGBT community at large.

I’m not sure if you are aware, but LGBT people and their allies can be found in the same army and police that would be used to quell those rebellions.

And in very small numbers, yes. They are of no concern.

I think you grossly underestimate the amount of servicemen and women and law enforcement officers that actually give a damn about the liberty and freedom that they signed up to protect, as well as the amount of Americans in general that would fight to preserve the rights and freedoms of their LGBT friends, family and loved ones.

[The New California Republic]

To invoke that kind of extreme response from the teachers a student has to do something pretty bad that goes beyond normal discourse.

And this doesn't threaten me at all, I have no stake in your spat with your teachers.

Really? In what situation would I go so far that a teacher telling me to stop talking because I'm not American is justified?

I don't believe for a moment that you have represented the situation honestly, so asking me to pass judgment on something they likely didn't say ain't gonna happen. And there are plenty of godawful things that a student can say to anger their teachers, so I'm not going to play a game of trying to guess what you did.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

As a straight(ish) guy, I've got your back if the sexual police come for you.

Seriously though, you can't underestimate how many straight folks would rise up in defense of gay people. It'd be more than not, I expect.

Such people don’t just go for the LGBT populace, they go for many other groups as well, including the mentally/neurologically affected.

If I don’t fight from the start and stand there silent, they’ll eventually come for me.

As an armed bi man myself, I’d certainly stand up to help defend my gay and trans friends and my fellow LGBT Americans at large.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

American schools are already facing massive gaps in history education. Forcibly altering the focus to emphasize political considerations is foolish.

Somehow I suspect they aren't going to discard WW2 or the Civil War for this.

US education is locally funded. Typically with minimums set by the individual states. Poorer neighborhoods often only receive a tenuous grasp of "superfluous" subjects such as history. Ask the average American cannot comment intelligently on the bronze age collapse, Robert Oppenheimer, or the French revolution. Let alone more obscure subjects such as Indian independence or the warring states period.

Don't get me wrong, the history of lbgt is important, I just do not feel it deserves special emphasis.

[Kavagrad]

Somehow I suspect they aren't going to discard WW2 or the Civil War for this.

US education is locally funded. Typically with minimums set by the individual states. Poorer neighborhoods often only receive a tenuous grasp of "superfluous" subjects such as history. Ask the average American cannot comment intelligently on the bronze age collapse, Robert Oppenheimer, or the French revolution. Let alone more obscure subjects such as Indian independence or the warring states period.

Don't get me wrong, the history of lbgt is important, I just do not feel it deserves special emphasis.

The history of LGBT Americans is almost definitely more relevant to modern students' understanding of the American present than the bronze age collapse or the warring states period.

[Alvecia]

Somehow I suspect they aren't going to discard WW2 or the Civil War for this.

US education is locally funded. Typically with minimums set by the individual states. Poorer neighborhoods often only receive a tenuous grasp of "superfluous" subjects such as history. Ask the average American cannot comment intelligently on the bronze age collapse, Robert Oppenheimer, or the French revolution. Let alone more obscure subjects such as Indian independence or the warring states period.

Don't get me wrong, the history of lbgt is important, I just do not feel it deserves special emphasis.

My mandatory history education here in the UK didn't include any of those subject either. Specific subjects aren't really the focus of history education until later on.
For example, here are the national curriculum aims for UK secondary education:

The national curriculum for history aims to ensure that all pupils:
- know and understand the history of these islands as a coherent, chronological narrative, from the earliest times to the present day: how people’s lives have shaped this nation and how Britain has influenced and been influenced by the wider world
- know and understand significant aspects of the history of the wider world: the nature of ancient civilisations; the expansion and dissolution of empires; characteristic features of past non-European societies; achievements and follies of mankind
- gain and deploy a historically grounded understanding of abstract terms such as ‘empire’, ‘civilisation’, ‘parliament’ and ‘peasantry’
- understand historical concepts such as continuity and change, cause and consequence, similarity, difference and significance, and use them to make connections, draw contrasts, analyse trends, frame historically-valid questions and create their own structured accounts, including written narratives and analyses
- understand the methods of historical enquiry, including how evidence is used rigorously to make historical claims, and discern how and why contrasting arguments and interpretations of the past have been constructed

[Ifreann]

Supposing it is, and?

If that's already the standard for the American education system, then y'all don't need to screw it up even more by focusing on identity politics. Sure, teach it. But don't make it a class. Otherwise, my ass is back off to Ireland for college.

There is no American education system. There are thousands of education systems within America.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

US education is locally funded. Typically with minimums set by the individual states. Poorer neighborhoods often only receive a tenuous grasp of "superfluous" subjects such as history. Ask the average American cannot comment intelligently on the bronze age collapse, Robert Oppenheimer, or the French revolution. Let alone more obscure subjects such as Indian independence or the warring states period.

Don't get me wrong, the history of lbgt is important, I just do not feel it deserves special emphasis.

The history of LGBT Americans is almost definitely more relevant to modern students' understanding of the American present than the bronze age collapse or the warring states period.

I’d argue that the Bronze Age Collapse is highly relevant because it affected everything down the line for the Western World, but the Warring States...eh, ya got a point.

Such people don’t just go for the LGBT populace, they go for many other groups as well, including the mentally/neurologically affected.

If I don’t fight from the start and stand there silent, they’ll eventually come for me.

As an armed bi man myself, I’d certainly stand up to help defend my gay and trans friends and my fellow LGBT Americans at large.

Harm the gays, you get the Gay-wehr 43.

[Korouse]

Good. I especially like that they added the fact that the demon hag DeVos' cronies were basically going to institute a homosexual ban on new hires. Considering it's their plan to privatize our school system, who knows what else organized reactionary capital could do except inch us ever so forward into executing them for crimes against the people?

[Unithonia]

Really? In what situation would I go so far that a teacher telling me to stop talking because I'm not American is justified?

I don't believe for a moment that you have represented the situation honestly, so asking me to pass judgment on something they likely didn't say ain't gonna happen. And there are plenty of godawful things that a student can say to anger their teachers, so I'm not going to play a game of trying to guess what you did.

It couldn’t just be that the teacher was an ass?
If a women is raped, it must be her fault because she pissed the dude off
If a man is hung for being black, must be his fault

See what I mean?

[Unithonia]

Again with the ignoring of my previous argument. Go and answer that, then we'll talk
Unless you can argue that a viable standard for an education system is to prefer the furthering of a political agenda over important history that is not being taught? Again, I'm all for it being a part of the curriculum, the LGBT community has faced horrid things. But having a class is a no no.

Who here has been arguing for furthering a political agenda?

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

[Ifreann]

Who here has been arguing for furthering a political agenda?

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

There is no such thing as "a Social Justice style" of teaching.

[Korhal IVV]

Who here has been arguing for furthering a political agenda?

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

It would be fine if they just included it in general history or something under “Civil Rights Movements in History” or whatever. Making an entire subject for it seems like a political move.

[Vassenor]

Who here has been arguing for furthering a political agenda?

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

I'm not the one wildly misrepresenting this entire situation just to have something easier to argue against.

[Sicaris]

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

It would be fine if they just included it in general history or something under “Civil Rights Movements in History” or whatever. Making an entire subject for it seems like a political move.

...Because it is

[Vassenor]

It would be fine if they just included it in general history or something under “Civil Rights Movements in History” or whatever. Making an entire subject for it seems like a political move.

...Because it is

In what way?

[Sicaris]

...Because it is

In what way?

It specifically targets people of a specific sexuality for no specified reason, thus we are left to assume it is a political move.

[Ifreann]

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

It would be fine if they just included it in general history or something under “Civil Rights Movements in History” or whatever. Making an entire subject for it seems like a political move.

Doing anything with the public school curriculum is a political move. Changing it is political, leaving it the same is political, having one at all is political, not having one is political.

If you criticise something as being "political", you are either not saying anything, or you're saying that you don't like the politics.

---

In what way?

It specifically targets people of a specific sexuality for no specified reason, thus we are left to assume it is a political move.

As above, opposing this change to the curriculum is also political.

[Unithonia]

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

It would be fine if they just included it in general history or something under “Civil Rights Movements in History” or whatever. Making an entire subject for it seems like a political move.

Exactly what I've been saying

[The New California Republic]

I don't believe for a moment that you have represented the situation honestly, so asking me to pass judgment on something they likely didn't say ain't gonna happen. And there are plenty of godawful things that a student can say to anger their teachers, so I'm not going to play a game of trying to guess what you did.

It couldn’t just be that the teacher was an ass?
If a women is raped, it must be her fault because she pissed the dude off
If a man is hung for being black, must be his fault

See what I mean?

Two separate teachers in separate incidents reacting to the behaviour of the same student? On balance of probabilities it is you that was at fault. But regardless, I really don't believe you anymore, sorry.

Also:

If a man is hung for being black

!!!

[Unithonia]

Having an entire class of LGBT education taught in a Social Justice style would be furthering a political agenda. Now, answer my argument to you, otherwise you just look bad

I'm not the one wildly misrepresenting this entire situation just to have something easier to argue against.

I'm sharing my opinion, and instead of arguing against it you have spent this time writing short and rude responses instead of actually addressing my point. It's barely worth trying to debate with you.

[Unithonia]

It couldn’t just be that the teacher was an ass?
If a women is raped, it must be her fault because she pissed the dude off
If a man is hung for being black, must be his fault

See what I mean?

Two separate teachers in separate incidents reacting to the behaviour of the same student? On balance of probabilities it is you that was at fault. But regardless, I really don't believe you anymore, sorry.

Also:

If a man is hung for being black

!!!

Yeah, that's a genuine (and very unfortunate) part of history. Using it as an example is not an endorsement of the atrocities committed by groups like the KKK, and I do not support or tolerate it.
Sure, believe what you want. That's a really good way to worm out of an argument.

[Vassenor]

I'm not the one wildly misrepresenting this entire situation just to have something easier to argue against.

I'm sharing my opinion, and instead of arguing against it you have spent this time writing short and rude responses instead of actually addressing my point. It's barely worth trying to debate with you.

Well if you're not going to prove that this has the political motivation that you claim it does...