Cela wrote:You literally just described most of the core tenets of fascism
Still I'm not a fascist. Maybe you should ask my opinion on various issues.
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by Communal concils » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:49 am
Cela wrote:You literally just described most of the core tenets of fascism
by Upper Secundus » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:51 am
by The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:52 am
Andrassia wrote:The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Stop complaining. This isn't the 1960s, and I'm sorry if you get butthurt by people kindly telling you to stop saying slurs in casual conversation. Tell me, fellow human being, have you ever been insulted due to something relating to your body or anything of the like before? If you have, then you know what those people who complain feel...and they feel that every day. They try to put up with it, but after all, why not just tell them to stop? You have been tricked by the right, my friend. The only people who truly do the things which are 'feminazi' or 'SJW' are just people kindly telling you to stop insulting them. In fact, the right does this doles more than the left. Make a joke about any right-winger beloved by people in your country (something quite insulting, like turning their corpse into a public urinal or about how if they were replaced by literal dirt, the country would've been better off, yada yada), or something relating to old imperial pasts/soldiers in wars, etc..Basically anything that has national pride attached to it. Then wait. They'll react worse than if you played 10 hours of slurs in front of left-wingers.
You feel better now? Sounded like you really needed to get that off your chest and you were just waiting for someone.
by The South Falls » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:53 am
by Communal concils » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:53 am
Ada Empire wrote:Communal concils wrote:I'm a socialist, and I'm far-left. The historical socialist movements had things I like, as well as things I dislike. However, I agree with many policies of these movements.
The Fall of the Soviet Union was the beginning of both practical and ideological degeneracy of the movement. In my opinion it has allowed the right wingers to form unchallenged groups(Alt-Right is a example).The Democratic socialist policies aren't long lasting, the Marxist-Leninist have fantasies of a revolution that will never happen, the other Communist are too Liberal, and Anarchist believe in a pseudo-egalitarian utopia.In my opinion, their needs to be a new ideology. Here are the ideals I propose for the movement(if it was created).
1.The Socialist State is the only stage of Socialism required. There will be no transition to communism, and their will be no anarchist "society". Enemies would be every were, both foreign and domestic. Order and Stability is what all Socialist should be.
2.To defeat Capitalism and counter-Revolutionaries ,one must be populist. The Working class aren't educated enough to control the state. There needs to be a responsible Oligarchy. One that challenges it's opposition, but also cleans it's self. This Oligarchy must be lead by a single party, and this party must lead a republic of self restriction .It should also consolidate power.
3.Means justify the ends. It doesn't not matter how the party gains power, it must find a way of taking control. Elections, Military coup, and popular revolutions; these are only a few methods of gaining power.
4.Sectarianism is good,there is no "Left Unity".The Spanish civil war shows what Left unity is.
5.State control over the economy is a desire. welfare, Mass production, Protectionism, subsides and public services are good policies.
6.Complete rejection of consumerism and capitalist culture is important. Drugs,prositution and other hedonist desires should be banned.
7.People must be unified. Secularism and Nationalism can be used to unite the people. World revolution is a utopia, and focusing on your nation is truly progressive.
Hi, actual socialist here, let me critique this whole mess.
1) Socialism is workers ownership of the means of production, and it's where the state is run by the working class, there is no "transition to communism", communism comes from post-scarcity, which is idealist until we manage to make advancements in production and science globally, the advancements in socialism would lead into communism, theres no need for extensive planning here.
2)Mao talks about the mass line, the party has to directly interact and be connected to the populace to spread class consciousness. What Marx meant by the Dictatorship of the Proletariat was class dictatorship, not one dude calling all the shots. (in capitalism there is a dictatorship of the bourgeois class, so to speak, socialism replaces the DoTB with the DoTP.) Socialism is about spreading the democratic process to the unheard masses, anything else is revisionism and opportunistic lies.
3)We should hope to use the democratic process and peaceful means to achieve socialism, but history has taught us that when democratic socialist movements become popularized, reactionary politics are popularized too, (see Franco, Pinochet, etc.) That's when violence becomes absolutely necessary.
4) I don't see why different nations shouldn't be able to choose there own alternatives to capitalism
5) NO, WORKERS COMPLETE RELIANCE ON WELFARE IS NOT LIBERATION IT IS SLAVERY, welfare is a tool used by capitalists to maintain capitalism, its a temporary solution to the permanent issue of poverty in capitalism. Democratic workplace participation is always the way to go.
6) I agree slightly with you here, but it shouldn't be the left's main focus.
7) there's absolutely no reason to violate someones freedom to practice their religion. And all leftists should have the goal of the eventual removal of the state and borders.
by Communal concils » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:54 am
by The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:54 am
Communal concils wrote:Ada Empire wrote:
Hi, actual socialist here, let me critique this whole mess.
1) Socialism is workers ownership of the means of production, and it's where the state is run by the working class, there is no "transition to communism", communism comes from post-scarcity, which is idealist until we manage to make advancements in production and science globally, the advancements in socialism would lead into communism, theres no need for extensive planning here.
2)Mao talks about the mass line, the party has to directly interact and be connected to the populace to spread class consciousness. What Marx meant by the Dictatorship of the Proletariat was class dictatorship, not one dude calling all the shots. (in capitalism there is a dictatorship of the bourgeois class, so to speak, socialism replaces the DoTB with the DoTP.) Socialism is about spreading the democratic process to the unheard masses, anything else is revisionism and opportunistic lies.
3)We should hope to use the democratic process and peaceful means to achieve socialism, but history has taught us that when democratic socialist movements become popularized, reactionary politics are popularized too, (see Franco, Pinochet, etc.) That's when violence becomes absolutely necessary.
4) I don't see why different nations shouldn't be able to choose there own alternatives to capitalism
5) NO, WORKERS COMPLETE RELIANCE ON WELFARE IS NOT LIBERATION IT IS SLAVERY, welfare is a tool used by capitalists to maintain capitalism, its a temporary solution to the permanent issue of poverty in capitalism. Democratic workplace participation is always the way to go.
6) I agree slightly with you here, but it shouldn't be the left's main focus.
7) there's absolutely no reason to violate someones freedom to practice their religion. And all leftists should have the goal of the eventual removal of the state and borders.
Everything I believe is suppose to be pragmatic, I support what I think is the most practical. Not the Most Moral, Not the most altruistic, not the best sounding. Only what I think will happen in the material reality of things.
by LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:55 am
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:59 am
Eternal Lotharia wrote:So...Fascism.
by Ada Empire » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:00 pm
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:01 pm
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:03 pm
Ada Empire wrote:fascism is the purging of all races except one, it's the maintenance of patriarchal relations and purging of all the state deems "degenerates" (homosexuals, trans folks, disabled people, etc. )
by Communal concils » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:04 pm
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Communal concils wrote:
Everything I believe is suppose to be pragmatic, I support what I think is the most practical. Not the Most Moral, Not the most altruistic, not the best sounding. Only what I think will happen in the material reality of things.
So you're telling me that you think that you're being pragmatic whilst making abstract statements with no link to the physical world? Do you realise the irony here?
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:05 pm
by Ada Empire » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:06 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Ada Empire wrote:fascism is the purging of all races except one, it's the maintenance of patriarchal relations and purging of all the state deems "degenerates" (homosexuals, trans folks, disabled people, etc. )
That's not even close to being true. You've confused Fascism for National Socialism.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:07 pm
by Eglaecia » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:08 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:So...Fascism.
by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:08 pm
Communal concils wrote:I'm a socialist, and I'm far-left. The historical socialist movements had things I like, as well as things I dislike. However, I agree with many policies of these movements.
The Fall of the Soviet Union was the beginning of both practical and ideological degeneracy of the movement. In my opinion it has allowed the right wingers to form unchallenged groups(Alt-Right is a example).The Democratic socialist policies aren't long lasting, the Marxist-Leninist have fantasies of a revolution that will never happen, the other Communist are too Liberal, and Anarchist believe in a pseudo-egalitarian utopia.In my opinion, their needs to be a new ideology. Here are the ideals I propose for the movement(if it was created).
1.The Socialist State is the only stage of Socialism required. There will be no transition to communism, and their will be no anarchist "society". Enemies would be every were, both foreign and domestic. Order and Stability is what all Socialist should be.
2.To defeat Capitalism and counter-Revolutionaries ,one must be populist. The Working class aren't educated enough to control the state. There needs to be a responsible Oligarchy. One that challenges it's opposition, but also cleans it's self. This Oligarchy must be lead by a single party, and this party must lead a republic of self restriction .It should also consolidate power.
3.Means justify the ends. It doesn't not matter how the party gains power, it must find a way of taking control. Elections, Military coup, and popular revolutions; these are only a few methods of gaining power.
4.Sectarianism is good,there is no "Left Unity".The Spanish civil war shows what Left unity is.
5.State control over the economy is a desire. welfare, Mass production, Protectionism, subsides and public services are good policies.
6.Complete rejection of consumerism and capitalist culture is important. Drugs,prositution and other hedonist desires should be banned.
7.People must be unified. Secularism and Nationalism can be used to unite the people. World revolution is a utopia, and focusing on your nation is truly progressive.
by LiberNovusAmericae » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:08 pm
Ada Empire wrote:LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Communist governments end up somewhat resembling fascist ones anyway. This is just it without the veneer.
fascism is the purging of all races except one, it's the maintenance of patriarchal relations and purging of all the state deems "degenerates" (homosexuals, trans folks, disabled people, etc. ) Its marked by corporatism and anti-communism.
Socialism is workers ownership of the M.o.P. and workers democracy, big difference dude
by The South Falls » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:09 pm
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:10 pm
by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpattia » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:11 pm
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