Ukraine Has Not Yet Voted-Round 3(The Rada Runaround)

[Chan Island]

So, based off the new information helpful users are putting here about Tymoshenko, it seems like my vote would then go towards Hrytsenko.

[Trumptonium1]

You're right, Tymoshenko is a professional kleptocrat. Very few of them exist, but alas, in Ukraine they can still get elected.

She was the only head of government of a post-communist Eastern Bloc country that left with a worse corruption index rating than she inherited ... twice.

Lyashko appears to be Ukraine's best hope. Ukraine should go its own way, away from the EU and certainly away from Russia. Rid the country of oligarchs and corruption (by confiscation of wealth if needed, Ukraine is at present so poor that infringing on property rights won't really do damage) and start improving the country from the ground up. Corruption is easy to solve, just go the Czech or the Polish route and you're at levels identical to Western Europe. Or go Hungary's route, and start incentivising private citizens to film bribery encounters with officials, be it municipal, regional or just policemen, offering bribes and reporting it if taken. Reward them with 3x their bribe and put the fucker in jail.

But I'd also like to see Sergiey Taruta, but know he has no chances. Dude's alright.

Lyashko genuinely sounds like he'd become a dictator though, and Ukraine has been striving hard to avoid dictatorship. Besides, you yourself said that their economy was in terrible shape, how are they going to afford the cost of nuclear weapons?

His nuclear weapons plan is probably on the same line as Trump's wall plan -- not going to happen, but nice votes. I've seen him compared to Trump before too, which I wouldn't agree with. He's not religious, nor conservative. Plus he rails against the billionaire class (but not 'the rich' in general, as he wants to lower taxes even for millionaires. Just not the oligarchs, who he believes should be on trial)

Not that nuclear weapons are expensive if you have the blueprints. See: North Korea, Pakistan.

Lyashko is a democrat. He's basically a carbon copy of Netanyahu, but a Ukrainian version. Strong on security, economically thatcherite but protectionist, fiscally responsible and socially liberal.

[Sharania]

The OP is unbelievably biased and inaccurate. You write:

There are, in fact, over two dozen candidates for president, so we're just going to look at the top six that are most likely to get to Round 2.

Followed by:

Polls in Ukraine are iffy at best

So why only these candidates? Did you deliberately chose the most controversial ones? Ukraine is not a freakshow as shown by Russian propaganda, and there are normal candidates that have a real chance to finally act upon a promise to return Ukraine back to Europe – culturally and politically.

See this article - Ukraine’s Presidential Race Will Be Fun

All the major players except one have already thrown their hats in the ring. They include:

• Former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who is making her third presidential run. As Ukraine’s most experienced active politician, she has seen it all: Head-spinning intrigue, power, prison. Her support — currently the highest in Ukraine’s notoriously unreliable polls — is especially high among Ukrainian women, who account for a bigger group of voters than men in the largely traditional, patriarchal society. Tymoshenko is a populist, a master of the two-hour emotional speech; she promises that, if she is president, Ukrainian salaries and pensions will end up no lower than in neighboring Poland (currently, there’s a fourfold gap) and that Ukrainians will start getting loans at European interest rates (currently, the cheapest mortgages in Ukraine have a 10 percent rate). She also promises to get back the territories lost to Russia since 2014, without quite being able to explain how.

• Comedian and producer Volodymyr Zelensky, a well-known TV personality who’s made a career of mocking Ukrainian politicians and is making an anti-elite bid along the lines of Donald Trump’s campaign in 2016. Many, however, see him as the candidate of oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky, who now lives in Israel after being pushed out of the country by the current government. Zelensky’s candidacy has been rocked by a recent scandal: Radio Liberty disclosed that he still held a stake in a movie production company in Russia. The firm is mainly receiving royalties from previous projects, but any involvement in Russian business, tightly controlled by the Kremlin, is a major no-no for many Ukrainian voters, especially in the country’s west. Yet, Zelensky is doing relatively well in the polls, and his formidable performing skills can still win him more votes.

• Lviv Mayor Andriy Sadovyi, who has run Western Ukraine’s most important city with skill and unusual integrity since 2006. He is one the most Western-like politicians, though he is seen as a provincial and something of a lightweight in Kiev. His support outside his home region is low, and his best chance of winning nationwide power would be to form an alliance with another pro-Western candidate. So far, there’s been little chance of a compromise, as both Sadovyi and the candidate closest to him politically are also campaigning to bolster the chances of their parties in this year’s parliamentary elections.

• That candidate is former Defense Minister Anatoliy Hrytsenko, who has strong law-and-order credentials and a long history of backing Ukraine’s European path. His focus is on military affairs such as bringing Ukraine’s army to North Atlantic Treaty Organization standards, cutting the number of generals, and getting an international peacekeeping force into eastern Ukraine; he also has the respect of anti-corruption activists.

• Former Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko, who used to be close to deposed President Viktor Yanukovych and is considered a pro-Russian candidate, is relatively popular in Ukraine’s Russian-speaking east and south. He is weighed down by the old government’s corruption scandals.

OP, how about amending your description of the candidates and making it less biased? You were bashing Zelensky for getting money from Russia based businesses – what about Poroshenko then? Why you said nothing about Boyko’s connection with openly pro-Putin oligarch Medvedchuk? Why you didn’t mention Lyashko’s Anti-Semitism and long feud with Ihor Kolomoysky?

“with the nation being the latest battleground in the endless struggle of East vs. West”

What are you talking about? There is no “endless struggle” – Russia lost Ukraine. End of story. There are upcoming constitutional amendments in Ukraine about future membership in EU and NATO.

P.S. Lviv Mayor Andriy Sadovyi looks like the most sane and pro-EU/pro-Western candidate out there. I’d like for OP to include him in the poll.

[Shrillland]

The OP is unbelievably biased and inaccurate. You write:

There are, in fact, over two dozen candidates for president, so we're just going to look at the top six that are most likely to get to Round 2.

Followed by:

Polls in Ukraine are iffy at best

So why only these candidates? Did you deliberately chose the most controversial ones? Ukraine is not a freakshow as shown by Russian propaganda, and there are normal candidates that have a real chance to finally act upon a promise to return Ukraine back to Europe – culturally and politically.

See this article - Ukraine’s Presidential Race Will Be Fun

All the major players except one have already thrown their hats in the ring. They include:

• Former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who is making her third presidential run. As Ukraine’s most experienced active politician, she has seen it all: Head-spinning intrigue, power, prison. Her support — currently the highest in Ukraine’s notoriously unreliable polls — is especially high among Ukrainian women, who account for a bigger group of voters than men in the largely traditional, patriarchal society. Tymoshenko is a populist, a master of the two-hour emotional speech; she promises that, if she is president, Ukrainian salaries and pensions will end up no lower than in neighboring Poland (currently, there’s a fourfold gap) and that Ukrainians will start getting loans at European interest rates (currently, the cheapest mortgages in Ukraine have a 10 percent rate). She also promises to get back the territories lost to Russia since 2014, without quite being able to explain how.

• Comedian and producer Volodymyr Zelensky, a well-known TV personality who’s made a career of mocking Ukrainian politicians and is making an anti-elite bid along the lines of Donald Trump’s campaign in 2016. Many, however, see him as the candidate of oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky, who now lives in Israel after being pushed out of the country by the current government. Zelensky’s candidacy has been rocked by a recent scandal: Radio Liberty disclosed that he still held a stake in a movie production company in Russia. The firm is mainly receiving royalties from previous projects, but any involvement in Russian business, tightly controlled by the Kremlin, is a major no-no for many Ukrainian voters, especially in the country’s west. Yet, Zelensky is doing relatively well in the polls, and his formidable performing skills can still win him more votes.

• Lviv Mayor Andriy Sadovyi, who has run Western Ukraine’s most important city with skill and unusual integrity since 2006. He is one the most Western-like politicians, though he is seen as a provincial and something of a lightweight in Kiev. His support outside his home region is low, and his best chance of winning nationwide power would be to form an alliance with another pro-Western candidate. So far, there’s been little chance of a compromise, as both Sadovyi and the candidate closest to him politically are also campaigning to bolster the chances of their parties in this year’s parliamentary elections.

• That candidate is former Defense Minister Anatoliy Hrytsenko, who has strong law-and-order credentials and a long history of backing Ukraine’s European path. His focus is on military affairs such as bringing Ukraine’s army to North Atlantic Treaty Organization standards, cutting the number of generals, and getting an international peacekeeping force into eastern Ukraine; he also has the respect of anti-corruption activists.

• Former Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko, who used to be close to deposed President Viktor Yanukovych and is considered a pro-Russian candidate, is relatively popular in Ukraine’s Russian-speaking east and south. He is weighed down by the old government’s corruption scandals.

OP, how about amending your description of the candidates and making it less biased? You were bashing Zelensky for getting money from Russia based businesses – what about Poroshenko then? Why you said nothing about Boyko’s connection with openly pro-Putin oligarch Medvedchuk? Why you didn’t mention Lyashko’s Anti-Semitism and long feud with Ihor Kolomoysky?

“with the nation being the latest battleground in the endless struggle of East vs. West”

What are you talking about? There is no “endless struggle” – Russia lost Ukraine. End of story. There are upcoming constitutional amendments in Ukraine about future membership in EU and NATO.

P.S. Lviv Mayor Andriy Sadovyi looks like the most sane and pro-EU/pro-Western candidate out there. I’d like for OP to include him in the poll.

I didn't choose the most controversial, I chose the six candidates that were most likely, according to the polls,to get to Round Two. Just because they're iffy doesn't mean they should be completely ignored, so I chose those who were either above or near 10%. Being an American, I don't have the same access and resources as you guys do, but I know enough to know that Sadovyi is in a very distant eighth place and nowhere near heading to the runoff.

[Sharania]

I didn't choose the most controversial, I chose the six candidates that were most likely, according to the polls,to get to Round Two.

Polls that you called "iffy". Meaning - you decided to pick and choose based on your biases.

Being an American, I don't have the same access and resources as you guys do

a) You don't have access to the Net?
b) What do you mean by "you guys"?
c) "Being an American" - what kind of excuse is that?

[Shrillland]

I didn't choose the most controversial, I chose the six candidates that were most likely, according to the polls,to get to Round Two.

Polls that you called "iffy". Meaning - you decided to pick and choose based on your biases.

Being an American, [b]I don't have the same access and resources as you guys do[/b

a) You don't have access to the Net?
b) What do you mean by "you guys"?
c) "Being an American" - what kind of excuse is that?

Oh, I have access to the net, and I used the story you cited among several others, but none of the major Ukrainian media outlets are actually giving primers on candidates as of yet and probably won't until sometime next week after the application process officially ends. As for the rest, my apologies, I thought you might've been Ukrainian and thus more knowledgeable by default. I don't dispute your knowledge, mind.

[Trumptonium1]

Lyashko is not an anti-semite, this is bs.

Confiscating ill-gotten gains from billionaire oligarchs, most of whom are Jewish, is not anti-semitic.

[Shrillland]

However, I will concede that there should be an option for those who prefer others. My apologies to all who have voted(you all know what happens, I'm sure); but I will add an other option to the poll.

As for the other arguments, I wish to make it clear that I did everything I could to keep it as neutral as possible while still maintaining the facts and keeping it easy to understand.

[Sharania]

Lyashko is not an anti-semite, this is bs.

Seriously? You, alt-righters, surely like to defend your fellow "brethren". Well, allow me to remind you about something:

Lyashko accused Poroshenko of "humiliating the Ukrainian nation", after Poroshenko's heartfelt speech in Israel's Knesset, where he apologized for the role the Ukrainian nationalists played in Holocaust.

Confiscating ill-gotten gains from billionaire oligarchs, most of whom are Jewish, is not anti-semitic.

Wow. Yeah, right... Keep it coming, Trumptonium1 - I think there are people on NSG who still don't know about your own Anti-Semitism.

[Sharania]

Zelensky takes the lead in poll ahead of 2019 presidential vote
If presidential elections had been held next Sunday, Volodymyr Zelensky would have enjoyed the greatest support from those who plan to vote and have already made up their mind.

Comedy actor, public figure and leader of the Sluha Narodu (Servant of the People) party Volodymyr Zelensky has taken the lead with 19% of votes in a poll ahead of the 2019 presidential election. The poll was conducted by the Rating sociological group from January 16 to January 24.

According to the findings of the poll, 18.2% of respondents support ex-PM and Batkivshchyna party leader Yulia Tymoshenko and 15.1% incumbent President Petro Poroshenko.

Head of the Opposition Bloc Yuriy Boyko would have scored 10% of votes, leader of the Hromadianska Pozytsia (Civic Position) party Anatoliy Hrytsenko 8.5%, leader of the Radical Party Oleh Liashko 7%, Ukrainian MP and media mogul Yevgeniy Murayev 3.6%, Ukrainian MP from the UKROP party Oleksandr Shevchenko 2.9%, leader of the Samopomich party Andriy Sadoviy 2.7%, MP from the Opposition Bloc Oleksandr Vilkul 2.6%.

In the second round, according to the poll, Tymoshenko ranks first in pairs with Poroshenko (27% versus 18%) and Boyko (28% vs. 18%).

At the same time, Tymoshenko is behind Zelensky (24% vs. 29%). According to the poll, Zelensky also ahead of Poroshenko (34% vs. 20%) and Boiko (33% vs. 18%).

In the Boyko-Poroshenko pair, the incumbent president is leading with a slight difference (23% vs. 21%). Some 6,000 respondents were interviewed. The margin of error does not exceed 1.3%.

[Shrillland]

Zelensky takes the lead in poll ahead of 2019 presidential vote
If presidential elections had been held next Sunday, Volodymyr Zelensky would have enjoyed the greatest support from those who plan to vote and have already made up their mind.

Comedy actor, public figure and leader of the Sluha Narodu (Servant of the People) party Volodymyr Zelensky has taken the lead with 19% of votes in a poll ahead of the 2019 presidential election. The poll was conducted by the Rating sociological group from January 16 to January 24.

According to the findings of the poll, 18.2% of respondents support ex-PM and Batkivshchyna party leader Yulia Tymoshenko and 15.1% incumbent President Petro Poroshenko.

Head of the Opposition Bloc Yuriy Boyko would have scored 10% of votes, leader of the Hromadianska Pozytsia (Civic Position) party Anatoliy Hrytsenko 8.5%, leader of the Radical Party Oleh Liashko 7%, Ukrainian MP and media mogul Yevgeniy Murayev 3.6%, Ukrainian MP from the UKROP party Oleksandr Shevchenko 2.9%, leader of the Samopomich party Andriy Sadoviy 2.7%, MP from the Opposition Bloc Oleksandr Vilkul 2.6%.

In the second round, according to the poll, Tymoshenko ranks first in pairs with Poroshenko (27% versus 18%) and Boyko (28% vs. 18%).

At the same time, Tymoshenko is behind Zelensky (24% vs. 29%). According to the poll, Zelensky also ahead of Poroshenko (34% vs. 20%) and Boiko (33% vs. 18%).

In the Boyko-Poroshenko pair, the incumbent president is leading with a slight difference (23% vs. 21%). Some 6,000 respondents were interviewed. The margin of error does not exceed 1.3%.

I just wish Zelensky was more specific than just cleaning up corruption. That's certainly important, but I haven't seen much else about where he stands besides being pro-Western.

[Trumptonium1]

Lyashko is not an anti-semite, this is bs.

Seriously? You, alt-righters, surely like to defend your fellow "brethren". Well, allow me to remind you about something:

Lyashko accused Poroshenko of "humiliating the Ukrainian nation", after Poroshenko's heartfelt speech in Israel's Knesset, where he apologized for the role the Ukrainian nationalists played in Holocaust.

As he should do. Israel still doesn't understand it can't pull the holocaust card on Occupied Nations.

Confiscating ill-gotten gains from billionaire oligarchs, most of whom are Jewish, is not anti-semitic.

Wow. Yeah, right... Keep it coming, Trumptonium1 - I think there are people on NSG who still don't know about your own Anti-Semitism.

LMFAO

Aight

[Shofercia]

Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.

Only ten cents? I'd bet a thousand bucks on that.

Lyashko is not an anti-semite, this is bs.

Confiscating ill-gotten gains from billionaire oligarchs, most of whom are Jewish, is not anti-semitic.

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ukrainia ... ler-438561

A video of a Ukrainian opposition lawmaker saluting Adolf Hitler made its way online this weekend, only days after his country’s president apologized for Ukrainian collaborators’ role in the Holocaust during a state visit to Israel. In the video, Artyom Vitko, the former commander of the government backed Luhansk-1 Battalion and now a member of Oleh Lyashko’s Radical Party, can be seen sitting in the back of a car wearing camouflage fatigues and singing along to a song by a Russian neo-Nazi band extolling the virtues of the Nazi dictator.

Speaking before the Knesset last week, Poroshenko said “we must remember the negative events in history, in which collaborators helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. “When Ukraine was established [as an independent state in 1991], we asked for forgiveness, and I am doing it now, in the Knesset, before the children and grandchildren of the victims of the Holocaust... I am doing it before all citizens of Israel,” he added. Lyashko lashed out at the president on Facebook on Thursday. “This kind of humiliation of Ukrainians has not been recorded in our history yet. During a visit to Israel, President Poroshenko apologized for the ‘Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust,’” Lyashko posted.

Yep, totally pro-Jewish, no antisemitism here... /sarcasm

Poroshenko’s comments were laudable and he “acted correctly and courageously when he spoke in the Knesset about the Holocaust the Jewish people endured on Ukrainian soil,” Colette Avital, chairwoman of the Center of Organizations of Holocaust Survivors in Israel, told The Jerusalem Post. “Even though we are not surprised by the comments of the radical leader, Oleh Lyashko, we are nonetheless shocked by the kind of strange and irrelevant comparisons he brings up and by his negation historical facts."

They're not surprised, because for Lyashko, that's normal. But sure, keep on telling me how he's not being antisemitic...

[Shofercia]

However, I will concede that there should be an option for those who prefer others. My apologies to all who have voted(you all know what happens, I'm sure); but I will add an other option to the poll.

As for the other arguments, I wish to make it clear that I did everything I could to keep it as neutral as possible while still maintaining the facts and keeping it easy to understand.

You did ok, it's just that Ukraine's election's a clusterfuck, and you chose to make a thread about said clusterfuck

[Trumptonium1]

Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.

Only ten cents? I'd bet a thousand bucks on that.

Lyashko is not an anti-semite, this is bs.

Confiscating ill-gotten gains from billionaire oligarchs, most of whom are Jewish, is not anti-semitic.

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ukrainia ... ler-438561

A video of a Ukrainian opposition lawmaker saluting Adolf Hitler made its way online this weekend, only days after his country’s president apologized for Ukrainian collaborators’ role in the Holocaust during a state visit to Israel. In the video, Artyom Vitko, the former commander of the government backed Luhansk-1 Battalion and now a member of Oleh Lyashko’s Radical Party, can be seen sitting in the back of a car wearing camouflage fatigues and singing along to a song by a Russian neo-Nazi band extolling the virtues of the Nazi dictator.

Speaking before the Knesset last week, Poroshenko said “we must remember the negative events in history, in which collaborators helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. “When Ukraine was established [as an independent state in 1991], we asked for forgiveness, and I am doing it now, in the Knesset, before the children and grandchildren of the victims of the Holocaust... I am doing it before all citizens of Israel,” he added. Lyashko lashed out at the president on Facebook on Thursday. “This kind of humiliation of Ukrainians has not been recorded in our history yet. During a visit to Israel, President Poroshenko apologized for the ‘Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust,’” Lyashko posted.

Yep, totally pro-Jewish, no antisemitism here... /sarcasm

Poroshenko’s comments were laudable and he “acted correctly and courageously when he spoke in the Knesset about the Holocaust the Jewish people endured on Ukrainian soil,” Colette Avital, chairwoman of the Center of Organizations of Holocaust Survivors in Israel, told The Jerusalem Post. “Even though we are not surprised by the comments of the radical leader, Oleh Lyashko, we are nonetheless shocked by the kind of strange and irrelevant comparisons he brings up and by his negation historical facts."

They're not surprised, because for Lyashko, that's normal. But sure, keep on telling me how he's not being antisemitic...

You: 'Here I will prove to you X is antisemitic by showing you an article that his friend Y ironically did a nazi salute like Mr. Korwin-Mikke in EP for the luls'

Yup, makes X antisemitic no doubt.

Israel can't pull the holocaust card on Occupied Nations, and I have no interest in what they have to say on that matter. For whatever reason they believe they have the moral authority to decide the facts of what happened 80 years ago. More than that they lost all credibility when they attempted to portray the Polish underground movement as antisemites and demanded the right to call Auschwitz et al. 'Polish'.

Ukrainian WW2 nationalists were utter shitheads who deserved a collective show trial and a death sentence, however, he had no reason to and should not have apologised on behalf of Ukraine because of demands from a crackpot state 500 miles south.

[Shofercia]

Only ten cents? I'd bet a thousand bucks on that.




https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Ukrainia ... ler-438561



Yep, totally pro-Jewish, no antisemitism here... /sarcasm



They're not surprised, because for Lyashko, that's normal. But sure, keep on telling me how he's not being antisemitic...

You: 'Here I will prove to you X is antisemitic by showing you an article that his friend Y ironically did a nazi salute like Mr. Korwin-Mikke in EP for the luls'

Yup, makes X antisemitic no doubt.

Israel can't pull the holocaust card on Occupied Nations, and I have no interest in what they have to say on that matter. For whatever reason they believe they have the moral authority to decide the facts of what happened 80 years ago. More than that they lost all credibility when they attempted to portray the Polish underground movement as antisemites and demanded the right to call Auschwitz et al. 'Polish'.

Ukrainian WW2 nationalists were utter shitheads who deserved a collective show trial and a death sentence, however, he had no reason to and should not have apologised on behalf of Ukraine because of demands from a crackpot state 500 miles south.

The reason that said apology was demanded was that Neo-Nazis rose with Euromaidan, including Lyashko: https://pando.com/2014/10/30/omidyar-fu ... arliament/

Shortly before the elections, on October 17, Zalishchuk used her Omidyar-funded outfit, “Chesno,” to organize a roundtable with leaders of pro-EU and neo-fascist parties. It was called “Parliament for Reform” and it brought together leaders from eight parties, including Zalishchuk’s “Poroshenko Bloc” (she served as both NGO organizer and as pro-Poroshenko party candidate), the prime minister’s “People’s Party” and leaders from two unabashedly neo-Nazi parties: Svoboda, and the Radical Party of Oleh Lyashko, who was denounced by Amnesty International for posting YouTube videos of himself interrogating naked and hooded pro-Russian separatist prisoners. Lyashko's campaign posters featured him impaling a caricatured Jewish oligarch on a Ukrainian trident.

[The of Japan]

You: 'Here I will prove to you X is antisemitic by showing you an article that his friend Y ironically did a nazi salute like Mr. Korwin-Mikke in EP for the luls'

Yup, makes X antisemitic no doubt.

Israel can't pull the holocaust card on Occupied Nations, and I have no interest in what they have to say on that matter. For whatever reason they believe they have the moral authority to decide the facts of what happened 80 years ago. More than that they lost all credibility when they attempted to portray the Polish underground movement as antisemites and demanded the right to call Auschwitz et al. 'Polish'.

Ukrainian WW2 nationalists were utter shitheads who deserved a collective show trial and a death sentence, however, he had no reason to and should not have apologised on behalf of Ukraine because of demands from a crackpot state 500 miles south.

The reason that said apology was demanded was that Neo-Nazis rose with Euromaidan, including Lyashko: https://pando.com/2014/10/30/omidyar-fu ... arliament/

Shortly before the elections, on October 17, Zalishchuk used her Omidyar-funded outfit, “Chesno,” to organize a roundtable with leaders of pro-EU and neo-fascist parties. It was called “Parliament for Reform” and it brought together leaders from eight parties, including Zalishchuk’s “Poroshenko Bloc” (she served as both NGO organizer and as pro-Poroshenko party candidate), the prime minister’s “People’s Party” and leaders from two unabashedly neo-Nazi parties: Svoboda, and the Radical Party of Oleh Lyashko, who was denounced by Amnesty International for posting YouTube videos of himself interrogating naked and hooded pro-Russian separatist prisoners. Lyashko's campaign posters featured him impaling a caricatured Jewish oligarch on a Ukrainian trident.

What is your definition of NeoNazi? because it just seems to be extreme nationalist from how you use it.

[Shofercia]

The reason that said apology was demanded was that Neo-Nazis rose with Euromaidan, including Lyashko: https://pando.com/2014/10/30/omidyar-fu ... arliament/

What is your definition of NeoNazi? because it just seems to be extreme nationalist from how you use it.

I don't particularly mind most Nationalists, as long as they don't discriminate based on traits that people cannot change, and/or their religion. For instance - someone having a poster that shows himself impaling an Oligarch is fine, but someone going out of the way to make it look like said Oligarch is Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim - that's wrong.

[The of Japan]

What is your definition of NeoNazi? because it just seems to be extreme nationalist from how you use it.

I don't particularly mind most Nationalists, as long as they don't discriminate based on traits that people cannot change, and/or their religion. For instance - someone having a poster that shows himself impaling an Oligarch is fine, but someone going out of the way to make it look like said Oligarch is Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim - that's wrong.

I agree, but it seems you are painting with a broad brush the whole Euromaidan movement as NeoNazi when it is mostly just anti-russia nationalism. There are definitely some neonazi's in the ukrainian parliament, but they have no real chance of winning the presidency.

[Shofercia]

I don't particularly mind most Nationalists, as long as they don't discriminate based on traits that people cannot change, and/or their religion. For instance - someone having a poster that shows himself impaling an Oligarch is fine, but someone going out of the way to make it look like said Oligarch is Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim - that's wrong.

I agree, but it seems you are painting with a broad brush the whole Euromaidan movement as NeoNazi when it is mostly just anti-russia nationalism. There are definitely some neonazi's in the ukrainian parliament, but they have no real chance of winning the presidency.

I was talking specifically about Lyashko, who deliberately ensured that the Oligarch he was impaling, was Jewish.

[The of Japan]

I agree, but it seems you are painting with a broad brush the whole Euromaidan movement as NeoNazi when it is mostly just anti-russia nationalism. There are definitely some neonazi's in the ukrainian parliament, but they have no real chance of winning the presidency.

I was talking specifically about Lyashko, who deliberately ensured that the Oligarch he was impaling, was Jewish.

I was more referring to your repeated refrencing of the Ukrainian government post Euromaidan as neonazi.

[Kowani]

I sense a general clusterfuck on the horizon...

[Shofercia]

I was talking specifically about Lyashko, who deliberately ensured that the Oligarch he was impaling, was Jewish.

I was more referring to your repeated refrencing of the Ukrainian government post Euromaidan as neonazi.

Where did I do that in this thread? I'd be happy to debate those origins with you, but this is an election thread.

[MERIZoC]

Preferably someone who doesn't' idolize Bandera. Which really limits your options.

Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.

You're forgetting Jews, Gypsies, and Hungarians

[Sneudal]

Oh no worries, it's not so much about your information, but more about the fact that i just don't see any candidate who would really serve Ukrainian intrests. I feel they all serve themselves above all, which is sad as Ukraine really needs somebody who stands for the country and most importantly, against its corrupt system.

Do you really wonder? The cost to apply for a permit to appear on the Presidential ballot in Ukraine is $100 000 USD. That's in a country where the average wage is 300 dollars a month. Of course it's going to be primarily full of people in it for themselves.

Hence why i would abstain from voting.