Islam, the future of social conservatism?

[New haven america]

So, traditionalists, social conservatives, fascists, and alt-rightists of NSG. Instead of the virgin Christianity, why not the chad Islam?

It's foreign. There is a distinctly European character at the heart of all those ideologies you just mentioned, which is not at the heart of Islam. Despite numerous commonalities, I don't think there will be much, if any shift on the right to fundamentalist Islam because there is an ethnoreligious component to it. It's not so clear in Christianity, but more so in Islam--if I'm not mistaken, the Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic, and although translations aren't banned, this is still its truest form. Though there are exceptions like Indonesia, Iran, or the Uyghurs of Western China, Islam is still inexplicably tied to Arab cultural identity. If the Islamic Right were to continue to rise in prominence I can imagine after a generation or two people on the European far right sharing videos back and forth of some cleric pissing a ton of people off with his blunt rhetoric, although I have a feeling they will mostly go to their graves saying, 'it's tradition, but it's not our tradition.' They would sooner return to paganism wholesale than that.

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

[Woudlora]

It's foreign. There is a distinctly European character at the heart of all those ideologies you just mentioned, which is not at the heart of Islam. Despite numerous commonalities, I don't think there will be much, if any shift on the right to fundamentalist Islam because there is an ethnoreligious component to it. It's not so clear in Christianity, but more so in Islam--if I'm not mistaken, the Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic, and although translations aren't banned, this is still its truest form. Though there are exceptions like Indonesia, Iran, or the Uyghurs of Western China, Islam is still inexplicably tied to Arab cultural identity. If the Islamic Right were to continue to rise in prominence I can imagine after a generation or two people on the European far right sharing videos back and forth of some cleric pissing a ton of people off with his blunt rhetoric, although I have a feeling they will mostly go to their graves saying, 'it's tradition, but it's not our tradition.' They would sooner return to paganism wholesale than that.

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

Care to elaborate on what you mean specifically?

Edit: Now I think I see what you're getting at. I still have to disagree. Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo are all exclaves of Islam in Europe. They aren't representative of the character of the majority of Europe. Turkey is mostly in Asia as is Southern Russia and Azerbaijan. By Spain & Portugal I'm guessing you're referencing al-Andalus, and that was reabsorbed into Christendom by the late 1400s.

[Abyssal Shipyard]

Some of their ideas on how to make socities behave are nice.
A good beheading can be a nice deterrent.

[North German Realm]

It's foreign. There is a distinctly European character at the heart of all those ideologies you just mentioned, which is not at the heart of Islam. Despite numerous commonalities, I don't think there will be much, if any shift on the right to fundamentalist Islam because there is an ethnoreligious component to it. It's not so clear in Christianity, but more so in Islam--if I'm not mistaken, the Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic, and although translations aren't banned, this is still its truest form. Though there are exceptions like Indonesia, Iran, or the Uyghurs of Western China, Islam is still inexplicably tied to Arab cultural identity. If the Islamic Right were to continue to rise in prominence I can imagine after a generation or two people on the European far right sharing videos back and forth of some cleric pissing a ton of people off with his blunt rhetoric, although I have a feeling they will mostly go to their graves saying, 'it's tradition, but it's not our tradition.' They would sooner return to paganism wholesale than that.

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

While a level of Islamic cultural influence remains in Iberia, Islam was consistently considered "Against" the native culture by Iberians and was eventually cast out by violent force, so I wouldn't say that.
And the majority of Turkey isn't in Europe to be perfectly honest.

[Jakker]

Never! while the west is progressively becoming more degenerate and values we once treasured are left by the wayside I would sooner see the West become a marxist monstrosity than willingly let the barbarians through our sacred gates. We have been at war with islam for centuries ( Tours, reconquista, crusades,Constantinople, Lepanto, Malta,Wien and Zenta) and everything except their ideas on charity run contrary to our very way of life. In short we would be cutting off our nose to spite our face and replacing one destructive ideology with an arguably even more destructive one.

Better Red than Mohammedan? doesn't quite have the same ring to it

Referring to a group of people as "barbarians" and also using "Mohammedan" like that is considered trolling around here. I would recommend looking over our forum rules: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044

*** Warned for Trolling ***

Moorish devil worship has several main disadvantages compared Christianity as a vehicle for social conservatism in the western world:
2) In the US(not sure about Euros), saracens are actually a good deal more liberal than Evangelicals. Compared to conservative Catholics, confessional protestants, and Orthodox Jews, they're practically intersectional feminists. I doubt that an integrated Islam would be any more conservative in Europe; more than likely the social conservatism in the Moorish banlieus comes from being little Arabia, not reading the Quran.
3) Social conservatism is making a comeback, interestingly, and it's doing so without Moslems. The new generation is quite a bit more socially conservative than the millenials were at the same age; the next generation in France is locked in a race between traditional Catholics and Muslamics; American social conservatives consistently do very well in local elections and just got control of the supreme court for the next generation.

Your use of language at several points in this post constitutes trolling my eyes ("Moorish devil worship and " "Moslems"). Given your history and this post, *** One day ban for Trolling *** Please note that this forum ban applies to you the player and not just this nation

[El-Amin Caliphate]

So, traditionalists, social conservatives, fascists, and alt-rightists of NSG. Instead of the virgin Christianity, why not the chad Islam?

It's foreign.

Tell that to Southeast Europe, Sicily, Spain, Portugal, Malta, Britain, France, Germany, and there's probs a few other countries I'm missing.

There is a distinctly European character at the heart of all those ideologies you just mentioned, which is not at the heart of Islam. Despite numerous commonalities, I don't think there will be much, if any shift on the right to fundamentalist Islam

OP didn't say anything about "fundamentalist Islam".

because there is an ethnoreligious component to it. It's not so clear in Christianity, but more so in Islam--if I'm not mistaken, the Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic, and although translations aren't banned, this is still its truest form. Though there are exceptions like Indonesia, Iran, or the Uyghurs of Western China, Islam is still inexplicably tied to Arab cultural identity.

No it's not. For most Arabs, yes, but for every other Muslim in the world they don't this "Arab-ness"

If the Islamic Right were to continue to rise in prominence I can imagine after a generation or two people on the European far right sharing videos back and forth of some cleric p*ssing a ton of people off with his blunt rhetoric, although I have a feeling they will mostly go to their graves saying, 'it's tradition, but it's not our tradition.' They would sooner return to paganism wholesale than that.

Insha-Allah they will be Muslims.

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

Care to elaborate on what you mean specifically?

Edit: Now I think I see what you're getting at. I still have to disagree. Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo are all exclaves of Islam in Europe. They aren't representative of the character of the majority of Europe. Turkey is mostly in Asia as is Southern Russia and Azerbaijan. By Spain & Portugal I'm guessing you're referencing al-Andalus, and that was reabsorbed into Christendom by the late 1400s.

Regardless, to say that Al-Islam is foreign to Europe is ignoring history.

Some of their ideas on how to make socities behave are nice.
A good beheading can be a nice deterrent.

Um....

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

While a level of Islamic cultural influence remains in Iberia, Islam was consistently considered "Against" the native culture by Iberians

I highly doubt this, considering we controlled the Iberian peninsula for around 600 to 700 years.

and was eventually cast out by violent force, so I wouldn't say that.

One of the worst times in Islamic, Christian, European, Arab and African history...

[North German Realm]

While a level of Islamic cultural influence remains in Iberia, Islam was consistently considered "Against" the native culture by Iberians

I highly doubt this, considering we controlled the Iberian peninsula for around 600 to 700 years.

And the actual people of Iberia, i.e. Christians, fought you for every single day of that, until they managed to completely cast you out. Your retardation of an argument is invalid.

and was eventually cast out by violent force, so I wouldn't say that.

One of the worst times in Islamic, Christian, European, Arab and African history...

Not really. That's the birth of Muhammad in Arabia, who started wars everywhere, subjugated and destroyed ancient cultures, destroyed knowledge in Alexandria, and commenced to begin the most horrible sexual slave trade in human history.

[Ifreann]

How do you manage to be the actual people of Iberia if you haven't lived there for centuries?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

How do you manage to be the actual people of Iberia if you haven't lived there for centuries?

?

[Valrifell]

How do you manage to be the actual people of Iberia if you haven't lived there for centuries?

I mean, technically Al-Andulas never had complete control of the peninsula. The Kingdom of Asturias existed since the Moorish conquest and the reconquista is thought to begin the second the Moors stop advancing into Europe.

[Puldania]

To those who say Islam is incompatible with Western democracy, I must reminder that Sunni split from Shia because they believed the Caliph should be chosen with the consent of all muslims.

Also Islam p much invented the right of divorce.

[Puldania]

Fun fact, without the Muslim Caliphates, most of what forms the "basis of western civilization" would've been destroyed forever by barbaric ransacking europeans.

[Cekoviu]

Bosnia, Albania, Kosovo, Turkey, Spain, Portugal, Southern Russia, and Azerbaijan disagree.

While a level of Islamic cultural influence remains in Iberia, Islam was consistently considered "Against" the native culture by Iberians and was eventually cast out by violent force, so I wouldn't say that.

Even if that's the case, Muslims still have Bosnia, Albania, Turkish Thrace, northern Cyprus, the northern Caucasus, and Azerbaijan (arguably).

And the majority of Turkey isn't in Europe to be perfectly honest.

İstanbul is (mostly), and it makes up a pretty big chunk of the population.

[Lamoni]

I highly doubt this, considering we controlled the Iberian peninsula for around 600 to 700 years.

And the actual people of Iberia, i.e. Christians, fought you for every single day of that, until they managed to completely cast you out. Your retardation of an argument is invalid.

One of the worst times in Islamic, Christian, European, Arab and African history...

Not really. That's the birth of Muhammad in Arabia, who started wars everywhere, subjugated and destroyed ancient cultures, destroyed knowledge in Alexandria, and commenced to begin the most horrible sexual slave trade in human history.

Yeah, no. The phrase "Your retardation of an argument is invalid." is flamebait, in this context. Combined with the rest of your statements quoted here, have a warning for flamebaiting.

*** Warning for Flamebait ***

[North German Realm]

While a level of Islamic cultural influence remains in Iberia, Islam was consistently considered "Against" the native culture by Iberians and was eventually cast out by violent force, so I wouldn't say that.

Even if that's the case, Muslims still have Bosnia, Albania, Turkish Thrace, northern Cyprus, the northern Caucasus, and Azerbaijan (arguably).

And the majority of Turkey isn't in Europe to be perfectly honest.

İstanbul is (mostly), and it makes up a pretty big chunk of the population.

Sure, and while the people of the Balkans in totality make roughly 7% of the population; even in the Balkans, a great deal of people oppose Islam on the principle of "That's not European and is a result of Turkish Imperialism", and have done so as soon as they were no longer oppressed to the point of apartheid by the Ottoman Empire.
Azerbaijan alone is... a different case. It's always had a more Persian and Middle Eastern culture than it has European.

[Cekoviu]

Even if that's the case, Muslims still have Bosnia, Albania, Turkish Thrace, northern Cyprus, the northern Caucasus, and Azerbaijan (arguably).

İstanbul is (mostly), and it makes up a pretty big chunk of the population.

Sure, and while the people of the Balkans in totality make roughly 7% of the population; even in the Balkans, a great deal of people oppose Islam on the principle of "That's not European and is a result of Turkish Imperialism", and have done so as soon as they were no longer oppressed to the point of apartheid by the Ottoman Empire.

There are also people who believe Christianity's spread in the Philippines, the Americas, and parts of Africa is a result of European imperialism. They're mostly right, but it doesn't change the reality of the religious makeup.

Azerbaijan alone is... a different case. It's always had a more Persian and Middle Eastern culture than it has European.

From what I know, that's true. And whether those three countries in the Caucasus are actually part of Europe is pretty controversial, so that's why I said "arguably."

[North German Realm]

Sure, and while the people of the Balkans in totality make roughly 7% of the population; even in the Balkans, a great deal of people oppose Islam on the principle of "That's not European and is a result of Turkish Imperialism", and have done so as soon as they were no longer oppressed to the point of apartheid by the Ottoman Empire.

There are also people who believe Christianity's spread in the Philippines, the Americas, and parts of Africa is a result of European imperialism. They're mostly right, but it doesn't change the reality of the religious makeup.

Azerbaijan alone is... a different case. It's always had a more Persian and Middle Eastern culture than it has European.

From what I know, that's true. And whether those three countries in the Caucasus are actually part of Europe is pretty controversial, so that's why I said "arguably."

Mate, you're talking to the person who believes that Pagans should force Muslims and Christians to convert to native religions. I agree with you that "it doesn't change the reality of the religious makeup", I'm saying as it is now, Islam is foreign in most parts of Europe (All of it, if you ask me). I'd like it if Christians stopped being Christians and we saw a "Atheist, Agnostic, or Native religion" demography as opposed to "Christian, Another Christian, A third type of Christian, Atheist, Muslim" as we see rn, but as it is now, the invasion (and it is an invasive culture for most of Europe) of Islam into Europe should be stopped, at least from an ideological standpoint.

[Fostoria]

>When there are apparently no other Western ideologies than Evangelical Christianity and Neoliberalism

[North German Realm]

>When there are apparently no other Western ideologies than Evangelical Christianity and Neoliberalism

Sure there are. I personally support 19th century "Freedom is good, let's have some" European Liberalism, same as Social Democracy or support of the Welfare. But Islamic Conservatism is decidedly not a Western Ideology.

[Fostoria]

>When there are apparently no other Western ideologies than Evangelical Christianity and Neoliberalism

Sure there are. I personally support 19th century "Freedom is good, let's have some" European Liberalism, same as Social Democracy or support of the Welfare. But Islamic Conservatism is decidedly not a Western Ideology.

I am somewhere along these lines as well.
Islamic Conservatism (or Islam in general) "taking over" the West would mean the complete demise of Western civilization, as it is inherently incompatible.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Mate, you're talking to the person who believes that Pagans should force Muslims and Christians to convert to native religions.

Why are you against freedom of religion?

I agree with you that "it doesn't change the reality of the religious makeup", I'm saying as it is now, Islam is foreign in most parts of Europe (All of it, if you ask me).

Those parentheses are a historical lie.

I'd like it if Christians stopped being Christians and we saw a "Atheist, Agnostic, or Native religion" demography as opposed to "Christian, Another Christian, A third type of Christian, Atheist, Muslim" as we see rn, but as it is now, the invasion (and it is an invasive culture for most of Europe) of Islam into Europe should be stopped, at least from an ideological standpoint.

You can't stop something that isn't happening.

Even if that's the case, Muslims still have Bosnia, Albania, Turkish Thrace, northern Cyprus, the northern Caucasus, and Azerbaijan (arguably).

İstanbul is (mostly), and it makes up a pretty big chunk of the population.

Sure, and while the people of the Balkans in totality make roughly 7% of the population; even in the Balkans, a great deal of people oppose Islam on the principle of "That's not European and is a result of Turkish Imperialism"

Prove it. And considering that 3 Balkan countries are majority-Muslim, I find this doubtful.

and have done so as soon as they were no longer oppressed to the point of apartheid by the Ottoman Empire.

"Done so" what? What have the Balkan countries done? Also, I don't think the Ottomans oppressed the Balkan people all the time. My Ottoman history memory is a rough tho.

But Islamic Conservatism is decidedly not a Western Ideology.

Tell that to the 3 Muslim-majority Balkan countries.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Sure there are. I personally support 19th century "Freedom is good, let's have some" European Liberalism, same as Social Democracy or support of the Welfare. But Islamic Conservatism is decidedly not a Western Ideology.

I am somewhere along these lines as well.
Islamic Conservatism (or Islam in general) "taking over" the West would mean the complete demise of Western civilization, as it is inherently incompatible.

Change =/= demise

[Arumdaum]

So, traditionalists, social conservatives, fascists, and alt-rightists of NSG. Instead of the virgin Christianity, why not the chad Islam?

It's foreign. There is a distinctly European character at the heart of all those ideologies you just mentioned, which is not at the heart of Islam. Despite numerous commonalities, I don't think there will be much, if any shift on the right to fundamentalist Islam because there is an ethnoreligious component to it. It's not so clear in Christianity, but more so in Islam--if I'm not mistaken, the Quran was specifically revealed in Arabic, and although translations aren't banned, this is still its truest form. Though there are exceptions like Indonesia, Iran, or the Uyghurs of Western China, Islam is still inexplicably tied to Arab cultural identity. If the Islamic Right were to continue to rise in prominence I can imagine after a generation or two people on the European far right sharing videos back and forth of some cleric pissing a ton of people off with his blunt rhetoric, although I have a feeling they will mostly go to their graves saying, 'it's tradition, but it's not our tradition.' They would sooner return to paganism wholesale than that.

Iran, Indonesia, and Turks aren't exceptions. Non-Arabs make up the overwhelming majority (80%) of Muslims. There's also debate among Muslims regarding the primacy of Arabs and Arabic which shouldn't be ignored.

[Fostoria]

I am somewhere along these lines as well.
Islamic Conservatism (or Islam in general) "taking over" the West would mean the complete demise of Western civilization, as it is inherently incompatible.

Change =/= demise

Yes, our women should be walking around in hijabs and burquas as to not get free of the leashes of their husbands /s.
Look what "Islamic Revolution" did to Iran

[Adversary One]

I am a WN but don't mind Islam or White Muslims. It comes from about the same region as Christianity, just later. I bought a Quran out of curiosity and learning from it has been a great journey. The Quran has inspired and strengthened me while igniting a deeper and more powerful level of spirituality. Conversely, Aryan lands are for Aryans only, no exceptions, ever.