Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore - Fixing the rust belt cities

[Reichsstaaten von Germania]

I’ve lived and grew up in the Chicago suburbs all my life it really isn’t that bad out in the city, or I’ve been desensitized to the violence. To me most of it seems exaggerated there are and parts of every city you just have to know what to avoid.

[Sicaris]

Hm? What do you mean?

Most Republicans are completely fine with Black people, if you mean that.

Generalizing and assuming is not a good way to conduct accurate tests, you know. There’s a reason they aren’t used too much when you want to be on the dot.

Republicans have passed many laws to suppress votes of non whites such as voter id and gerrymandering the legislature to dilute their votes.

Voter ID is essential to making sure non-citizens don’t interfere in our elections. It isn’t to “stop non-whites from voting”, it’s to stop voter law. If you legitimately think otherwise you are completely blind to the illegal aliens being allowed to vote in our elections.

[San Lumen]

Republicans have passed many laws to suppress votes of non whites such as voter id and gerrymandering the legislature to dilute their votes.

Voter ID is essential to making sure non-citizens don’t interfere in our elections. It isn’t to “stop non-whites from voting”, it’s to stop voter law. If you legitimately think otherwise you are completely blind to the illegal aliens being allowed to vote in our elections.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote and in person voter fraud does not happen. It is a fiction

[Petrolheadia]

Voter ID is essential to making sure non-citizens don’t interfere in our elections. It isn’t to “stop non-whites from voting”, it’s to stop voter law. If you legitimately think otherwise you are completely blind to the illegal aliens being allowed to vote in our elections.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote and in person voter fraud does not happen. It is a fiction

Proof?

[Sicaris]

Illegal immigrants cannot vote and in person voter fraud does not happen. It is a fiction

Proof?

inb4 snopes fact check

[San Lumen]

Illegal immigrants cannot vote and in person voter fraud does not happen. It is a fiction

Proof?

Im a poll worker. I can tell you from personal experience.

But if you want proof here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... fff242db83

[Novus America]

Voter ID is essential to making sure non-citizens don’t interfere in our elections. It isn’t to “stop non-whites from voting”, it’s to stop voter law. If you legitimately think otherwise you are completely blind to the illegal aliens being allowed to vote in our elections.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote and in person voter fraud does not happen. It is a fiction

This is simply incorrect.
It absolutely does happen. People get arrest for it.
The disputes is not whether or not it does happen.
It is whether or not the impact of in person fraud is significant,
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content ... -et-al.pdf
Even far left sources admit it does happen, but they claim the impact is minimal or exaggerated
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

Though it is true absentee ballots are the overwhelming source of voter fraud.
Absentee ballots are the problem.

[Petrolheadia]

Proof?

Im a poll worker. I can tell you from personal experience.

But if you want proof here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... fff242db83

Even the article states that there is fraud.

And the "332 cases" number might include entire polls treated as cases.

[Novus America]

Proof?

Im a poll worker. I can tell you from personal experience.

But if you want proof here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... fff242db83

Your source does not claim it never happens. Just claims it is very rare (in person).

And voting fraud is widespread, but because of absentee ballots
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html

True the real way to address voter fraud is a massive crackdown on absentee ballots, not in person voting.

[San Lumen]

Im a poll worker. I can tell you from personal experience.

But if you want proof here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... fff242db83

Your source does not claim it never happens. Just claims it is very rare (in person).

And voting fraud is widespread, but because of absentee ballots
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html

True the real way to address voter fraud is a massive crackdown on absentee ballots, not in person voting.

Where is your proof that happens often? What kind of crackdown are you talking? There is no absentee voter fraud in rust belt cities.

[Novus America]

Your source does not claim it never happens. Just claims it is very rare (in person).

And voting fraud is widespread, but because of absentee ballots
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... e.amp.html

True the real way to address voter fraud is a massive crackdown on absentee ballots, not in person voting.

Where is your proof that happens often? What kind of crackdown are you talking? There is no absentee voter fraud in rust belt cities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stamfo ... 573967.php
It absolutely does happen in rust belt cities.

But it is really not that topical I do agree.

[Kowani]

Republicans have passed many laws to suppress votes of non whites such as voter id and gerrymandering the legislature to dilute their votes.

Voter ID is essential to making sure non-citizens don’t interfere in our elections. It isn’t to “stop non-whites from voting”, it’s to stop voter law. If you legitimately think otherwise you are completely blind to the illegal aliens being allowed to vote in our elections.

It’s interesting that all the voter id laws just happen to hit non-whites more than they do everyone else...

[San Lumen]

Where is your proof that happens often? What kind of crackdown are you talking? There is no absentee voter fraud in rust belt cities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.stamfo ... 573967.php
It absolutely does happen in rust belt cities.

But it is really not that topical I do agree.

Ok but those who engage in it are prosecuted. Voter fraud is not enough of an issue to actually affect the outcome of an election. What happened in North Carolina is a outlier. We are drifting off topic here though

[Puldania]

Personally, I plan on moving to an old industrial sector of one of these cities and revitalizing it into an art hub. I think the potential for African-american art forms and high art fusion could bring about interesting developments in the American art scene.

Trying to revive a dead industry is useless, but we can breathe new life into these cities by utilizing the untapped ralent that may reside there. I'm thinking of a new Harlem renaissance.

[San Lumen]

Personally, I plan on moving to an old industrial sector of one of these cities and revitalizing it into an art hub. I think the potential for African-american art forms and high art fusion could bring about interesting developments in the American art scene.

Trying to revive a dead industry is useless, but we can breathe new life into these cities by utilizing the untapped ralent that may reside there. I'm thinking of a new Harlem renaissance.

Well that would be one way to do it.

[Novus America]

Personally, I plan on moving to an old industrial sector of one of these cities and revitalizing it into an art hub. I think the potential for African-american art forms and high art fusion could bring about interesting developments in the American art scene.

Trying to revive a dead industry is useless, but we can breathe new life into these cities by utilizing the untapped ralent that may reside there. I'm thinking of a new Harlem renaissance.

Trying to revive dead industry is often futile.
But creating new industries is not.

The focus should not be “bringing jobs back” per se, but creating new ones using modern manufacturing methods tailored to current demand.

Art alone will not make enough jobs.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Are they things that require one to be across the river from Windsor?

No?

Then abandon it completely and seal it off so we never have to worry about it again.



Curious, then, that Japan's more high-tech than the USA in almost every other context as well.

The problem with Detroit wasn't American auto industry, it was overpowered unions.

Just look at the auto industry in the less-unionized South. Toyota in Kentucky and Texas, Toyota and Nissan in Missisippi, Honda and Hyundai in Alabama...

In other words, working for Asian companies.

So who's going to protect the workers from exploitation there?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Personally, I plan on moving to an old industrial sector of one of these cities and revitalizing it into an art hub. I think the potential for African-american art forms and high art fusion could bring about interesting developments in the American art scene.

We do NOT need another for-profit art scene that'll be competing with what deviantArt is providing for free.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Sure there can be benefits from trade, but there can be harm too.
Nobody here is calling for a ban on all trade, just restrictions on the more destructive aspects of a race to the bottom on wages, working conditions and the environment.

Then why not regulate those things internationally, instead of regulating free trade itself? Wouldn't free trade among democracies if anything enable collaboration on protecting "wages, working conditions and the environment" if only among countries that actually value these things? Certainly more reasonable than something that stacks the deck against any geographic advantage in extracting or processing resources.

If there is a place for tariffs in fighting for these things, it's in threatening to tax countries UNLESS they protect "wages, working conditions and the environment." Not much bargaining room left on that front if you're ALREADY taxing these countries, is there?

And no, there is absolutely zero evidence of race based “natural skills” regarding the manufacturing of goods. And even if there were you can simply import people of those nationalities.

People who don't speak the language and therefore might face difficulties reporting abuse by an employer to the police?

Hey, there are cities that are multi-lingual enough that it might work. Fine. Let individual immigrants decide for themselves whether they trust a particular city enough to take that risk. But no, it's no substitute for letting people manufacture goods in their OWN home countries. There sometimes are practical reasons to cross national borders, but people shouldn't have to do so needlessly.

[Novus America]

Sure there can be benefits from trade, but there can be harm too.
Nobody here is calling for a ban on all trade, just restrictions on the more destructive aspects of a race to the bottom on wages, working conditions and the environment.

Then why not regulate those things internationally, instead of regulating free trade itself? Wouldn't free trade among democracies if anything enable collaboration on protecting "wages, working conditions and the environment" if only among countries that actually value these things? Certainly more reasonable than something that stacks the deck against any geographic advantage in extracting or processing resources.

If there is a place for tariffs in fighting for these things, it's in threatening to tax countries UNLESS they protect "wages, working conditions and the environment." Not much bargaining room left on that front if you're ALREADY taxing these countries, is there?

And no, there is absolutely zero evidence of race based “natural skills” regarding the manufacturing of goods. And even if there were you can simply import people of those nationalities.

People who don't speak the language and therefore might face difficulties reporting abuse by an employer to the police?

Hey, there are cities that are multi-lingual enough that it might work. Fine. Let individual immigrants decide for themselves whether they trust a particular city enough to take that risk. But no, it's no substitute for letting people manufacture goods in their OWN home countries. There sometimes are practical reasons to cross national borders, but people shouldn't have to do so needlessly.

If you already have the tariffs in place, the offer of reducing or eliminating them in exchange gives you more bargaining power than a mere threat.
Obviously if you have a free agreement with a place, that trade agreement determines the tariff levels, instead of a general tariff schedule.

And I am not against fair and equal trade in which both parties play by the same rules.
But that is not what we have in most cases, especially places like China.
In those cases the comparative adavantge comes from labor abuse and environmental destruction, not higher productivity.

Who says the do not necessarily speak the language? And they can learn.

Why is the movement of goods better than the movement of people?
Why is it inherently better they make the goods elsewhere?
Besides nobody is forcing them to go.
They would go because of better wages, opportunities, less brutal government, more freedom, etc. If they would rather work in a Chinese or Russian factory than an American one, they can continue to do so.

I am talking about giving them the option to work here, not dragging them here by force.

Also international shipping produces massive pollution, making a product closer to its customers provides numerous environmental benefits.
Plus there are the National security benefits and wage benefits.

And if we are discussing rebuilding the rust belt cities, obviously changing the trade policies that caused the much of the problems in those cities in the first place is a good place to start.

[Petrolheadia]

The problem with Detroit wasn't American auto industry, it was overpowered unions.

Just look at the auto industry in the less-unionized South. Toyota in Kentucky and Texas, Toyota and Nissan in Missisippi, Honda and Hyundai in Alabama...

In other words, working for Asian companies.

So who's going to protect the workers from exploitation there?

Seeing what happened to 70s Big Four, British Leyland and Fiat, and their cars, "the market and some laws" sounds good enough.

[Rojava Free State]

Baltimore isn't the rust belt, it's on the east coast. As for Detroit, I think it's too late. Chicago has many nice areas but most of Detroit is just packed slums, burned down buildings, abandoned factories and urban prarie. I live in Ypsilanti, an equally crappy city a half hour to the west of Detroit, it really is terrible

[Ethel mermania]

Baltimore isn't the rust belt, it's on the east coast. As for Detroit, I think it's too late. Chicago has many nice areas but most of Detroit is just packed slums, burned down buildings, abandoned factories and urban prarie. I live in Ypsilanti, an equally crappy city a half hour to the west of Detroit, it really is terrible

Detriot is supposedly improving, thanks to "THE HIPSTERS"

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/taki ... troit.html

[Novus America]

Baltimore isn't the rust belt, it's on the east coast. As for Detroit, I think it's too late. Chicago has many nice areas but most of Detroit is just packed slums, burned down buildings, abandoned factories and urban prarie. I live in Ypsilanti, an equally crappy city a half hour to the west of Detroit, it really is terrible

Rust belt can still be easy coast.
The rust belt runs all the way to the coast.
Baltimore, Wilmington, much of New Jersey are definitely rust belt, even Philadelphia.
Cities devastated be depopulation and de industrialization, with high crime an poor finances.

[Rojava Free State]

Baltimore isn't the rust belt, it's on the east coast. As for Detroit, I think it's too late. Chicago has many nice areas but most of Detroit is just packed slums, burned down buildings, abandoned factories and urban prarie. I live in Ypsilanti, an equally crappy city a half hour to the west of Detroit, it really is terrible

Detriot is supposedly improving, thanks to "THE HIPSTERS"

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/taki ... troit.html

I can tell you right now it isnt. while downtown is being built up with new businesses and attractions, the neighborhoods remain in a state of decay