by British Tackeettlaus » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:27 pm
by Novus America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:07 pm
by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:13 pm
by Novus America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:23 pm
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Grew up in Detroit. I can guarantee you Democrats didn't kill the city. White flight did. Even the staunchest right wing city in the world could not survive the loss of the wealthiest 65% of it's population.
You want to save the rust belt? Ever notice that all the military bases and government offices are located on the coasts? Sure you can find some inland but by and large most military and beaurocratic spending effectively subsidizes a handful of very lucky states. Start with that.
Edit: btw Detroit legalized weed years ago.
by Confederate States of German America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:31 pm
by Novus America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:52 pm
by Northwest Slobovia » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:03 pm
British Tackeettlaus wrote:Need to take some money out the suburbs to get the schools up to standard.
Novus America wrote:But as far as military bases go, most are not well suited for urban areas because they need lots of space.
by UniversalCommons » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:07 pm
by Confederate States of German America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:09 pm
Northwest Slobovia wrote:
While that makes excellent ad copy, the pretty line of rising education costs doesn't just need to be normalized against the CPI (a measure of overall inflation), but against inflation in skilled labor wages, since that's what makes up the bulk of the cost of education. I'm pretty sure the cost of education is still rising more quickly than the (lack of) increase in test scores, but I'd like to see less-biased data before saying so.
by Northwest Slobovia » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:11 pm
Confederate States of German America wrote:Northwest Slobovia wrote:
While that makes excellent ad copy, the pretty line of rising education costs doesn't just need to be normalized against the CPI (a measure of overall inflation), but against inflation in skilled labor wages, since that's what makes up the bulk of the cost of education. I'm pretty sure the cost of education is still rising more quickly than the (lack of) increase in test scores, but I'd like to see less-biased data before saying so.
It literally says its adjusted for CPI.
by Confederate States of German America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:13 pm
by Novus America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:16 pm
by Internationalist Bastard » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:22 pm
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:02 pm
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Confederate States of German America » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:42 pm
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Detroit became a major city based on the idea that Americans could compete on the same level as the Japanese and the Germans in the automotive manufacturing industry.
This idea has since flown in the face of reality.
That alone is proof enough that Detroit was a mistake.
Rather than squandering any more money on a city whose status emerged from a false idea, why not just relocate Detroit's residents throughout the country?
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:26 am
Confederate States of German America wrote:LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Detroit became a major city based on the idea that Americans could compete on the same level as the Japanese and the Germans in the automotive manufacturing industry.
This idea has since flown in the face of reality.
That alone is proof enough that Detroit was a mistake.
Rather than squandering any more money on a city whose status emerged from a false idea, why not just relocate Detroit's residents throughout the country?
When Detroit was at its biggest, it was not in the face of reality; American automotive manufacturing was the world leader and standard for most of the 20th Century, especially so after WWII. The Japanese only really became big after the Oil Shocks and the Germans were much the same until the 1960s as a result of their Post-War miracle. Indeed, after the War both Volkswagon and Toyota were offered for free or at low cost to Ford.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Darussalam » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:29 am
by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:15 am
Novus America wrote:Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Grew up in Detroit. I can guarantee you Democrats didn't kill the city. White flight did. Even the staunchest right wing city in the world could not survive the loss of the wealthiest 65% of it's population.
You want to save the rust belt? Ever notice that all the military bases and government offices are located on the coasts? Sure you can find some inland but by and large most military and beaurocratic spending effectively subsidizes a handful of very lucky states. Start with that.
Edit: btw Detroit legalized weed years ago.
The collapse of the auto industry and defense manufacturing industries also killed Detroit.
The destruction of American industries was unfortunately a bipartisan effort.
Certainly moving some government agencies around is a good idea.
But as far as military bases go, most are not well suited for urban areas because they need lots of space.
by Novus America » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:25 am
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Confederate States of German America wrote:
When Detroit was at its biggest, it was not in the face of reality; American automotive manufacturing was the world leader and standard for most of the 20th Century, especially so after WWII. The Japanese only really became big after the Oil Shocks and the Germans were much the same until the 1960s as a result of their Post-War miracle. Indeed, after the War both Volkswagon and Toyota were offered for free or at low cost to Ford.
So? It sill didn't last.
by Novus America » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:42 am
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Novus America wrote:
The collapse of the auto industry and defense manufacturing industries also killed Detroit.
The destruction of American industries was unfortunately a bipartisan effort.
Certainly moving some government agencies around is a good idea.
But as far as military bases go, most are not well suited for urban areas because they need lots of space.
American industry was fine until China joined the WTO in the 90's which was 25 years after Detroit's decline began. While certainly a factor, perhaps a nail in the coffin, it wasn't the primary cause.
These cities have room for military bases.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Re ... nd_Closure
They use to have them in fact. Most were either closed or transferred to national guard units. I currently live in Charleston. 10% of the metro area in employed by the military bases here. That is a huge subsidy. Drop Detroit's unemployment by 10% and watch it rise.
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:42 am
Novus America wrote:LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:So? It sill didn't last.
Sure over reliance on one industry was an issue, but the US is still a major automotive manufacturer, you do realize that, right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... production
The US manufacturers more vehicles than Germany or Japan.
Besides it was not really an issue when US cars were made for a US market.
Also you ignore Japan’s advantage comes from grossly unfair trading practices and Germany’s from government support if their industry (and protective tarrifs).
The automotive trade never was and never will be free and fair, so us trying to treat it as such was patently stupid.
Had we not allowed them to unfairly dump government subsidized products on our market and tariffs our cars higher than we did theirs it would have been less of an issue.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Novus America » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:55 am
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Novus America wrote:
Sure over reliance on one industry was an issue, but the US is still a major automotive manufacturer, you do realize that, right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... production
The US manufacturers more vehicles than Germany or Japan.
Besides it was not really an issue when US cars were made for a US market.
Also you ignore Japan’s advantage comes from grossly unfair trading practices and Germany’s from government support if their industry (and protective tarrifs).
The automotive trade never was and never will be free and fair, so us trying to treat it as such was patently stupid.
Had we not allowed them to unfairly dump government subsidized products on our market and tariffs our cars higher than we did theirs it would have been less of an issue.
Well, clearly Germany can afford to subsidize their auto industry, as they remain first world in no uncertain terms. As for Japan, you'll need to be a bit more specific than "unfair trading practices."
But for the USA, any support for Detroit has thus far proven half-hearted. Their industries were bailed out, yet they're still struggling. Their people were given enough to survive but not much more, (I'm sure you've seen the videos from its ghettos) and the political will to pour more money into a place whose economic purpose seems increasingly obsolete shows no sign of resurfacing anytime soon. I think something drastic like subsidizing relocation instead will force the issue, if nothing else.
by Confederate States of German America » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:15 pm
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Confederate States of German America wrote:
When Detroit was at its biggest, it was not in the face of reality; American automotive manufacturing was the world leader and standard for most of the 20th Century, especially so after WWII. The Japanese only really became big after the Oil Shocks and the Germans were much the same until the 1960s as a result of their Post-War miracle. Indeed, after the War both Volkswagon and Toyota were offered for free or at low cost to Ford.
So? It sill didn't last.
by The of Japan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:22 pm
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